|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 8:22:13 GMT 1
Innocent until proven guilty. IIRC, the club didn't suspend Luke during his criminal proceedings so there's precdent there, even if the alleged crime is different.
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 8:27:55 GMT 1
Sorry TMLS i disagree, if a teacher, docter, policeman etc...etc... was arrested and released on bail following allegations of a serious crime which was relevent to their current position,then they would be suspended immediately.
Why is Bill Wingrove any different? Innocent untill proven guilty is fine, but suspension does not indicate guilt in any way.
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 8:35:03 GMT 1
Not necessarily. We had a chap here accused of having sex with a 12 year old girl. He kept his job until the hearing. The second he went down for it he lost his job, and I'd say that's a serious crime.
Depends what's in his contract really though, or the club's policy.
Everyone's going to have an opinion on this one, will be interesting how the poll goes.
At the end of the day the only person who's opinion counts on the issue is Mr Wycherly's, the rest of us can debate it 'til the cows come home and it won't matter squat.
|
|
|
Post by Bilbo on Dec 10, 2004 8:38:50 GMT 1
Its not very often I agree with Kickin but this time I do. I hope Bill is not guilty but with Colin Poole facing financial investigations and Wingrove, it can only bring bad press for STFC. A suspension would be the best for the Club until this is done and dusted
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 8:39:38 GMT 1
Is having sex with a 12 year old girl relevent to his job? I doubt it, unless you work with children, if that is the case then he should have been suspended, i wqould seriously ask questions of my employer if that was not the case.
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 8:42:03 GMT 1
Not necessarily relevant (it was his stepdaughter) but as he was second only in line to the owner he was in a position of authority so had an example to set and many fingers in many pots like Bill W.
I see your point Kickin and respect your opinion. After all, we both agreed on his appointment initially but I just feel it'd be wrong to suspend him and effectively calling him guilty which he may not be and which under English law he isn't.
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 8:44:43 GMT 1
Would it be wrong to suspend a bank worker that was arrested over allegations of theft from his employer?
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 8:45:57 GMT 1
Would it be wrong to suspend a bank worker that was arrested over allegations of theft from his employer? You'd probably find that'd be specified in his contract though, like I said we don't know what's in Wingrove's.
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 8:54:01 GMT 1
I must say im surprised by your stance TMLS - Suspending Bill Wingrove would not indicate guilt, it would however protect the club in the event of his guilt being proved.
It is utter rubbish to say he cant be suspended unless its in his contract, and anyways, i would be extremely surprised if it wasn't.
The guy is on bail, this gives any employer the right to suspend an employee untill such time as the matter is resolved.
he should be suspended, can you provude any reasons why he shouldn't?
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 8:58:21 GMT 1
Is he on bail though? On ShrewsWeb he says he went along voluntarily and can't see why he'd lie. Would rather believe the man himself/Whitfield than the newspaper.
To clear one little bit up, I never said he can't be suspended without it being in his contract, I'm saying that in the case of a bank worker it'd be automatic that he's suspended most likely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:00:24 GMT 1
I agree that someone is innocent until proven guilty.
This is a tricky one though.
As the accusation is related to Mr Wingroves position at the club I think the club should suspend him temporarily until the matter is cleared.
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 9:01:28 GMT 1
He was arrested and released on police bail untill January.
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 9:06:34 GMT 1
He was arrested and released on police bail untill January. Is that the horse's mouth or a newspaper?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:08:39 GMT 1
KIP Bill Wingrove has not been charged with anything so it is incorrect to state he has been released on bail. To many people are quick to jump to conclusions because they do not read something correctly, or check the facts and sources. This thread is one reason why the Board probably give supporters groups little or no credibility.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:11:44 GMT 1
Is that the horse's mouth or a newspaper? The North Wales Police. Suspension IS NOT an indication of guilt.
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 9:17:36 GMT 1
Like I said though Gaz, is that from NWP or in a newspaper? Be surprised if they actually gave his name officially.
|
|
|
Post by Bilbo on Dec 10, 2004 9:21:16 GMT 1
This thread is one reason why the Board probably give supporters groups little or no credibility This thread only shows passion for our Club. The fans don't want to have their Club portrayed badly. Foxie don't you think we should be allowed to have an opinion on a potential serious issue like this:?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:21:38 GMT 1
From North Wales Police.
Not named, but confirmed they arrested a 60 year old man regarding the enquiry and released him on bail.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:23:54 GMT 1
KIP Bill Wingrove has not been charged with anything so it is incorrect to state he has been released on bail. To many people are quick to jump to conclusions because they do not read something correctly, or check the facts and sources. This thread is one reason why the Board probably give supporters groups little or no credibility. What the f? I'm sure Soupie can clear up whether someone can be bailed if not charged? Read the attached news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/shropshire/4081195.stmI certainly have jumped to no conclusions.
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 9:25:17 GMT 1
From North Wales Police. Not named, but confirmed they arrested a 60 year old man regarding the enquiry and released him on bail. So it's conjecture then (based on evidence - educated guess). Not arguing it isn't him, but in the light of all evidence available to us I just can't form that particular opinion. He hasn't been charged.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:27:38 GMT 1
So it's conjecture then (based on evidence - educated guess). Not arguing it isn't him, but in the light of all evidence available to us I just can't form that particular opinion. What opinion?
|
|
|
Post by Dan F on Dec 10, 2004 9:28:29 GMT 1
The opinion that he should be suspended. That's all this thread is, people's opinions. Not as if the board would listen to us based on one thread with maybe at the end a couple of dozen people replying to it...
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Dec 10, 2004 9:29:27 GMT 1
we live ina society where there is a free press and things are reported
don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, sure, but a police statement via the BBC is fairly decent ground to hold an opinion
what is really strange is that the Shrewsweb article certainly puts a different light on the whole episode
If a nurse was being investigated for stealing drugs froma previous hospital would her current employer leave her in charge fo the drugs cupboard?
It is not a suggestion of guilt, far from it, it is actually protecting the individual from further accusation until they are totally cleared
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 9:30:20 GMT 1
we live ina society where there is a free press and things are reported don't believe everything you read in the newspapers, sure, but a police statement via the BBC is fairly decent ground to hold an opinion what is really strange is that the Shrewsweb article certainly puts a different light on the whole episode If a nurse was being investigated for stealing drugs froma previous hospital would her current employer leave her in charge fo the drugs cupboard? It is not a suggestion of guilt, far from it, it is actually protecting the individual from further accusation until they are totally cleared
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 9:31:20 GMT 1
FOXIE - Bill Wingrove does not need to be charged to be on bail, its known as part 4 bail which means he has to return at a later date for further enquiries with criminal charges possible.
I suggest it is you that reads things through correctly before jumping to conclusions, and to suggest that upholding proffesional standards at the club is somehow damaging to fans groups is wrong, if the fans groups lack credibility then what is the pointin having them, maybe people involved should therefore step aside and let people with some credibility get involved.
The fact that members of STFC staff are involved with the umbrella groups actually suggests to me that these groups and people DO have credibility.
|
|
|
Post by DavidB on Dec 10, 2004 10:19:59 GMT 1
The official website has done itself no favours on this one. Nowhere is it mentioned Bill Wingrove was arrested. Supporters want to know the full facts about something like this, not be fed some spin-doctored version of what happened. Wingrove was arrested after voluntarily going to a police station and was then put on police bail pending further enquiries.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2004 10:25:50 GMT 1
KIP are you now saying that Bill Wingrove has NOT been charged - you don't seem very sure yourself. Bilbo is right everone is entitled to an opinion but I do think we should avoid "shooting from the hip" all the time.
Being involved in the Umbrella Groups my personal opinion is that the Board do not give them sufficient credibility and we need to change that. Yes they do attend the meetings but we need to achieve more from them, and I think we will with experience but it is a start and credit to AP.
|
|
|
Post by mattsnapper2 on Dec 10, 2004 10:29:41 GMT 1
&num It is not a suggestion of guilt, far from it, it is actually protecting the individual from further accusation until they are totally cleared but STFC stood by Luke Rodgers and he was 100% guilty from the off with the new stadium being built and the club at a critical time with tenders and contracts being drawn up with literally weeks to go, I dont think STFC can afford to lose the man power of Bill In media speak - creating something controversal... saying Bill Windgrove was arrested or NWP arrested a 60 yr old man makes a better line than Uncle Bill walked to the cop shop where he was technically arrested nobody can win here
|
|
|
Post by kickinpretty on Dec 10, 2004 11:05:03 GMT 1
FOXIE - Where exactly have i said he was charged? And where have i shot from the hip, im dealing with the facts here, and on that basis, my opinion is that he should be suspended until the matter is resolved !
As a resposible board they should suspend Bill Wingrove, the alledged offence has a DIRECT bearing on his current employment.
Luke Rodgers was not suspended because the incident had no bearing on his job of employment, i cant really see the comparison with Bills arrest to be honest.
|
|
|
Post by rob on Dec 10, 2004 11:05:30 GMT 1
But Luke Rodgers letting off a firework in the street had little to do with scoring goals.
Maybe if he'd been charged with selling drugs? take bribes etc....
However being called in by the police to answer allegations of theft from a previous employer, when chief executive of a new employer is relevent.
The way I see it is, we neither know if he is guilty or innocent, certanly he's done himself no favours on shrewsweb (either that or north wales police, salopstar and bbc are lying).
Thus when there is such confusion over a criminal matter that is relevent and throws doubt over your ability to continue your current job, it is only fair to expect to be suspended on full pay untill the matter is resolved.
Or thats how i see it at any rate.
|
|