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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 19:15:24 GMT 1
Just watched a programme that I taped last night on BBC2. Fascinating stuff and a period in history I remember quite well. It was probably the time that British social history was changed forever. There were obviously faults on both sides. Scargill expected slavish obedience from his members. Thatcher was out to smash the Unions.
Following that dispute the "I'm alright Jack, screw you" philosophy came to the fore(as demonstrated by some of the posts on the education debate last night). Whole communities were sent to the scrap-heap, merely for having the balls to protect their communities.
It seems stange to me that all the anti-union legislation passed at the time has not been repealed by Mrs Blair, despite being in office for 7 years.
I wonder how members of this site would view the world today had we, as a nation, backed the miners and forced Mrs Thatcher from power?
For those not quite old enough to remember, a miner was a person employed by us, at great personal risk to himself in order that we could all keep warm and have electricity. You'll probably find the word "miner" in the dictionary along side references to dinosaur Doo-Doo's.
And as by way of a PS, all those that come on this site to complain of "clean" fuel , have obviously never heard of a small town in Russia called Chernobyl.
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Post by R6ix on Jan 28, 2004 19:20:07 GMT 1
my old man was a miner during the strikes in 84, he worked at lea hall colliery in rugely staffs, hard bloody times, we got no union money, no social money ,he had to break rank and return to work, i recall going with him one day to fetch his cheque and being abused by pickets, very scary?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2004 19:26:34 GMT 1
Well Scargill never had any trouble collecting his couple of thousand a week from the union during the strike, Please guys do not go to work, it justifys me drawing my pay.......(out of your contributions), Scargill.......one of the things this country should forget.......Maggie world legend......Work hard you and your family will reap the benifits....not work hard to allow the scroungers to have an easier life, which is very much todays attitude.......ie post on all thgose who earn over X amout tax them 50%......
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Post by Shrews and Royals on Jan 28, 2004 19:27:10 GMT 1
My abiding memory was that Mr S&R and I had saved up a bit to go out for a meal while at Uni. Big night out at the Berni!
Some strikers were outside collecting with their tins, while 15 surrounded us in the restaurant with more dishes and bottles of wine on their table than we can remember.
Sad how the actions of some can tarnish peoples perceptions and quite frankly it pi**ed us off at the time. I can't understand why they didn't think about the impression it would create.
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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 19:28:39 GMT 1
Echo that . 2 lads I work with now worked at cannock. I for 1 tried to give them as much support as I could. And I, at that time, was a tory voter.
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Post by R6ix on Jan 28, 2004 19:34:44 GMT 1
my old man was at Granville colliery till that shut down in 78/79 then was at cannock till 87 i think,remember him goin around trying to get casual work to support us, my mum nearly broke down with worry so he went back to work, and they still shut the industry down anyway
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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 19:35:46 GMT 1
Paul-- you are some sort of cynical bast*rd. How you can say that any miner didn't work hard is beyond me. Ever tried it?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2004 19:37:46 GMT 1
Cannot recall saying they never worked hard at all
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2004 19:38:53 GMT 1
Cynical.........definately........
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Post by R6ix on Jan 28, 2004 19:39:06 GMT 1
not sure thats wot paul was saying
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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 19:51:02 GMT 1
Sorry Paul -- Your thread . Work hard and you will reap the benefits.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jan 28, 2004 19:53:36 GMT 1
it is alright to say you should work hard and support your family, but it gets a bit hard when the factory / mine shuts and 1500 people are made unemployed
it happened in Brymbo just outside wrexham when they clsoed the steel works, an entire generation made unemployed
some were retrained but that was cack because wrexham didn't need another 200 plumbers / carpenters / mechanics etc etc
the problem with the welfare state is that people rip it off, the problem with a free market is that people fall out of the "in zone" and starve
best of both worlds is what I say
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Post by Bilbo on Jan 28, 2004 19:56:18 GMT 1
.It seems stange to me that all the anti-union legislation passed at the time has not been repealed by Mrs Blair, despite being in office for 7 years. Whats so strange? He's as much a tory like is father and (the b***h) Thatcher. If there was a strong union force now, Blair wouldn't have dream't of bringing in this Help the rich kids tuition fees, because every hard working parent would be up in arms. The minors I felt so sorry for, it was an industry where alternative employment was next to nothing....... they had to fight to keep their pits open. Thatcher new it was cheaper to bring coal from abroad. Furthermore, a lot of the poor sods are suffering from sylicosis and enphasemia and are still fighting for compensation. I say "Repeal all Trade Union Laws" and stop further governments from bullying the British work force
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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 20:01:29 GMT 1
Careful Billbo, you'll upset Paul again.
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Post by mattsnapper MP on Jan 28, 2004 20:14:29 GMT 1
Bring back Maggie... we were a footballing force in the English game when she was in power... Old Tony comes in.. the more spin and lies this government churns out the worse our football team gets ! PS I saw the said docco too.. was superb
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2004 20:22:15 GMT 1
Paul never gets upset, but to me all men make what they deserve, yes you will get the odd born with a silver spoon in the mouth, however we are a nation that belives that you are owed a living, and not many prepared to diversify from what they currently know, not preparred to relocate, if that is what it takes to feed your family.
Cynical.....yes, seen far to many people who are claiming dole who refuse toi work cos getting to many benifits , therefore better off not working. and the above but working aswell, also the family that are 2 busy reproducing when they cannot afford to look after themselves then using children as a tool to get more beer money............
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2004 20:25:13 GMT 1
;D ;D ;D Anyone want me to stand for Sutton as alternative Conservative, promise i am for the new meadow ;D ;D ;D
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Post by MartinB on Jan 28, 2004 20:43:43 GMT 1
My abiding memory was that Mr S&R and I had saved up a bit to go out for a meal while at Uni. Big night out at the Berni! I had forgotten about Benri Inns. We used to go out about once a month to a Berni as a family treat. The highlight used to be playing on their high tec computer game........................................................ Tennis or football, the ball moving over the black and white screen with the paddle to return it. Showing my age now
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Post by MartinB on Jan 28, 2004 20:46:35 GMT 1
My memory of the miners strike was laughing a some of the Bank I worked for Inspectors. They were a bit like the Gestapo. A group of them travelling to an office in Nottingham got turned back by the Police as they thought they were "flying pickets".
Bloody funny, served them right. ;D Still brings a smile to my face 20 years on.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jan 28, 2004 21:12:28 GMT 1
My main memory of the miners strike was going to a night game at Barnsley. We were a bit apprehensive about the place as we had been bricked the last time we'd been up there despite giving up to the tune of 4-0.
The strike was only just starting and we wern't quite aware of what it meant to families and the high feelings of some of them so ran a mile when a scap started as we were queing for a programme near the home end.
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Post by duncowshrew on Jan 28, 2004 21:16:21 GMT 1
Thanks for your replies. The only alternative at the time was Neil Kinnock. What an absolute chancer he has become. Knows f*ck all about anything , and the bi*ch of a wife have suddenly become experts on everything.
Got themselves into the EU and got their noses big time in the trough. We must be absolute frigging idiots for believing anything that any Politicians spin us.
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Post by Chris J on Jan 28, 2004 22:08:11 GMT 1
We must be absolute frigging idiots for believing anything that any Politicians spin us. Never trust a politico is a good motto, but if it came to a choice, just about anyone before Thatcher. What I remember most about the strike was collecting food ouside Tescos for the strikers' families, meeting some miners from S Wales and realising how hard things were for them. I had a Support the Miners poster in my window - in Tewkesbury, Tory MP Nicholas Ridley, if anyone remembers the arrogant tw@t - and you wouldn't believe the aggro we used to get. (Of course the history books will tell you the pickets were the violent ones...) All the while these good shire folk were banging on about how it was nothing to do with taking on Scargill. It was an "economic principle" that we couldn't subsidise British coal just to keep people in jobs. However, farmers up the road were building swimming pools and tennis courts on their farm subsidies. Thatcher an evil, lying, vindictive hypocrite? Shome mishtake, surely!
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Post by ProfessorPatPending on Jan 28, 2004 22:11:56 GMT 1
I remember the miner's strike well and it still makes me very angry even now
Thatcher was a evil b***h and I hope I live long enough to have a few pints the day that she finally pegs it!
History will eventually recognise and record the massive and irreparable harm she did to this country, i'm certain of that
Elvis Costello was spot on when he wrote 'Tramp the dirt down', read the lyrics!
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Post by ginboomerang on Jan 28, 2004 22:19:24 GMT 1
he also wrote 'good year for the roses'...not.
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Post by scooter on Jan 28, 2004 22:36:01 GMT 1
Excellent programme. It really made a change to sit and watch a documentary for an hour and a half. Bugger all on tonight.
It does not seem like 20 years, and yet the country has changed so much. Repealing the union laws would not alter much now, the battle for large workforce heavy industries has been lost.
One of the most interesting things was the actions of the men afterwards, from staying in mining to moving away and working for themselves. But none of them said they would have missed the experience.
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Post by ProfessorPatPending on Jan 28, 2004 22:38:42 GMT 1
Gutted that I missed it Scooter, only realised it was on just before it finished, here's hoping it gets repeated soon
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Post by ginboomerang on Jan 28, 2004 22:43:28 GMT 1
I thought 'Boss Swap' was far more interesting, and apt.
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Post by RuytonShrew on Jan 28, 2004 22:55:29 GMT 1
Disappointed I missed this, sounds like it was very good. I was too young to really notice it at the time (I was seven!) but have read much about it all through my interest in politics and studying it at A-Level and uni (with a grant, a loan and no tuition fees ) I believe the unions possibly wielded too much power and their ability to set Labour manifestos with block votes at the annual party conference produced an unelectable opposition and so assured that Maggie kept getting back in. But the way Mrs T dealt with the situation was inhumane and pathetic. As is the way she dealt with so many other situations (poll tax, Europe the principle of parliamentary democracy, the principle of collective cabinet responsibility...) Sorry, started to go off on a rant there, you may gather I am not a Tory voter!!!
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Post by shrewforever on Jan 29, 2004 0:52:57 GMT 1
It was an excellent programme........just couldnt believe it was 20 years ago..........
As someone who has close family links to the mining industry.....losing my Grandfather and two Uncles to pithead accidents and a further Uncle to the ravages of mining related diseases I think it best that I keep my views to myself as they are quite strong.....
I will say however that I agree yet again with the posts of the Professor above and if you read this Prof I have been trying to buy advanced tickets to Mrs Thatchers funeral for years...........on further applications I shall put you down for one as well.Hope to see you there mate,the day cant come soon enough...............
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Post by ProfessorPatPending on Jan 29, 2004 1:22:03 GMT 1
It was an excellent programme........just couldnt believe it was 20 years ago.......... As someone who has close family links to the mining industry.....losing my Grandfather and two Uncles to pithead accidents and a further Uncle to the ravages of mining related diseases I think it best that I keep my views to myself as they are quite strong..... I will say however that I agree yet again with the posts of the Professor above and if you read this Prof I have been trying to buy advanced tickets to Mrs Thatchers funeral for years...........on further applications I shall put you down for one as well.Hope to see you there mate,the day cant come soon enough............... respect ...
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