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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2024 12:10:07 GMT 1
Main takeaways from the interview aside from the potential takeover stuff which I’ll believe when I see - we don’t know how often deals break down, how long they take to conclude etc so I won’t be hanging out the bunting just yet.
- Published accounts will be out this calendar year and will show a loss, but nowhere near £3m
- Confirmation that there’s been significant cost savings on the playing budget side.
- Not a need for RW to be ploughing in money each month anymore (contradicts Jayne’s ranty Facebook post), we still need some support but are managing cash flow more effectively now.
- Duncan Montgomery has more or less brought his way into the vice chairman (a thank you for helping finance us), Dooley speaks glowingly of him.
- Dooley needed to be a director to represent us on certain boards annd the like, and owns 25 shares.
Having now watched it I think I was right that this wasn’t about making any major announcement, just much valued openness from Dooley that he deserves all the credit for. Some good questions asked by Mary Kate and Olly Westbury, learnt quite a bit.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 27, 2024 12:52:32 GMT 1
If we are going to become the play thing of famous people / person then let them be footballers.
All we know now is what we have been told for at least 20 years, that the club is actively seeking fresh investment.
Be interesting if a deal actually gets close - let alone a contract gets drawn up - that still doesan't guarantee anything.
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Post by hectord0g137 on Sept 27, 2024 13:08:04 GMT 1
Whatever happens Liam must remain in some capacity. He makes the financial aspects simple for someone to understand. Hats off to the man
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Post by Salop_Ian on Sept 27, 2024 13:53:57 GMT 1
It reads as if there's going to be a financial update for the press to write a story about. Ie both Liam and Montgomery now own a fairly substantial amount of shares and we have issued over 800,000 new shares. But to who??..Roland ??..we don't know and it would be good to know as its sort of useful to understand who actually owns the club. Additionally those individuals who actually own the other 250,000 shares have seen a significant devaluation of their shareholding with the issue of the new shares as the value of the asset,ie the club and its property,hasn't increased yet the number of shares in the club has increased Maybe there is some inward investment?..we don't necessarily have to be totally bought out, somebody buying 25% would also be welcomed Some news is better than no news I agree that the minority shareholders will (or should) be interested. On a technical point though, whilst the new shares have certainly diluted the percentage size of their shareholding, they shouldn't have devalued them (unless the shares were issued at a discounted price, which is another thing altogether). The 840,000 new shares were issued at £2.50 per share so, assuming that was the market value, the club is worth £2.1m (840,000 x £2.50) more than before the share issue. The value of each shareholder's investment would therefore technically be the same; they'd own a reduced percentage of a more valuable company. That doesn't necessarily mean the club has had a £2.1m cash inflow though. If existing loans were converted to shares, the effect would be the same, without any new cash coming in - the club would have a higher share capital and lower debt, so therefore its balance sheet would show a higher net asset value. When I invested in the club back in the late 1990’s my shares cost 250p each, so the face value remains the same. Where the percentages of share ownership become important is the degree of control that a shareholding enables. 50% or more: With a majority holding, you can pass ordinary resolutions, required to approve proposals including: appointing or removing directors, allowing the company to buy back its own shares (other than out of capital, where a special resolution is required), authorising the directors to allot shares (unless there is only one class of share, in which case the resolution will not be needed), and approving loans to or substantial property transactions with directors. 75% or more: A powerful percentage to hold, whether this be you or you combined with like-minded shareholders. With this shareholding, you can pass special resolutions, necessary to approve a proposal to, for example: amend the articles of association, change the company’s name, wind the company up, authorise the company to issue new shares without having to offer them to existing shareholders first (pre-emption rights), and allow the company to buy back its own shares out of capital. I believe I am correct is saying that a 90% holdings allows the majority holder to buyout the remaining shares. |
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Post by mattmw on Sept 27, 2024 14:05:11 GMT 1
Main takeaways from the interview aside from the potential takeover stuff which I’ll believe when I see - we don’t know how often deals break down, how long they take to conclude etc so I won’t be hanging out the bunting just yet. - Published accounts will be out this calendar year and will show a loss, but nowhere near £3m - Confirmation that there’s been significant cost savings on the playing budget side. - Not a need for RW to be ploughing in money each month anymore (contradicts Jayne’s ranty Facebook post), we still need some support but are managing cash flow more effectively now. - Duncan Montgomery has more or less brought his way into the vice chairman (a thank you for helping finance us), Dooley speaks glowingly of him. - Dooley needed to be a director to represent us on certain boards annd the like, and owns 25 shares. Having now watched it I think I was right that this wasn’t about making any major announcement, just much valued openness from Dooley that he deserves all the credit for. Some good questions asked by Mary Kate and Olly Westbury, learnt quite a bit. Yes I think moving forward we should view the CEO having regular briefings with the local press as a normal piece of media coms, rather than each announcement being something major. All good stuff and it’s good we seem to be in a place now where the Chairman and Board are happier to share information about the club with the media and fans, and in Liam we have a good vehicle for doing that job. Long may it continue |
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Post by venceremos on Sept 27, 2024 14:46:26 GMT 1
I agree that the minority shareholders will (or should) be interested. On a technical point though, whilst the new shares have certainly diluted the percentage size of their shareholding, they shouldn't have devalued them (unless the shares were issued at a discounted price, which is another thing altogether). The 840,000 new shares were issued at £2.50 per share so, assuming that was the market value, the club is worth £2.1m (840,000 x £2.50) more than before the share issue. The value of each shareholder's investment would therefore technically be the same; they'd own a reduced percentage of a more valuable company. That doesn't necessarily mean the club has had a £2.1m cash inflow though. If existing loans were converted to shares, the effect would be the same, without any new cash coming in - the club would have a higher share capital and lower debt, so therefore its balance sheet would show a higher net asset value. When I invested in the club back in the late 1990’s my shares cost 250p each, so the face value remains the same. Where the percentages of share ownership become important is the degree of control that a shareholding enables. 50% or more: With a majority holding, you can pass ordinary resolutions, required to approve proposals including: appointing or removing directors, allowing the company to buy back its own shares (other than out of capital, where a special resolution is required), authorising the directors to allot shares (unless there is only one class of share, in which case the resolution will not be needed), and approving loans to or substantial property transactions with directors. 75% or more: A powerful percentage to hold, whether this be you or you combined with like-minded shareholders. With this shareholding, you can pass special resolutions, necessary to approve a proposal to, for example: amend the articles of association, change the company’s name, wind the company up, authorise the company to issue new shares without having to offer them to existing shareholders first (pre-emption rights), and allow the company to buy back its own shares out of capital. I believe I am correct is saying that a 90% holdings allows the majority holder to buyout the remaining shares. It's quite possible that £2.50 per share was the market value when you bought your shares and remains so now. I don't have enough information to have a firm opinion on the club's value, then or now. I agree with your summaries of the rights attaching to different levels of majority shareholding. A company's articles of association (ie its internal rules, which can be viewed at Companies House) often contain what are known as " drag along/tag along" provisions. These essentially mean that a minority shareholder is entitled to sell their shares to a purchaser buying the company ("tag along") or that a purchaser can require minority shareholders to sell to them at that time (" drag along"). The provisions are intended to enable minority shareholders to benefit from a company's sale and to enable purchasers to acquire all the shares (both at the market price) and not have to allow for minority shareholdings in the future. In that case, the 90% shareholding level isn't so significant. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2024 14:52:37 GMT 1
I'm not getting carried away but this latest news is promising, perhaps, just perhaps there is some light at the end of the tunnel when it comes to new investment and new owners.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 27, 2024 15:06:18 GMT 1
This was a good interview.
Mary-Kate gets a lot of stick on here and elsewhere but she did a good journalist's job there, as did Olly. They weren't aggressive (didn't need to be) but they asked sensible questions and didn't soft soap it either.
Credit to Liam Dooley for his responses too. I understand he's very restricted in what he's able to say with regard to potential investors but he seemed as straight about that as he could be. It's encouraging that there seems to be some real interest in the club and, hopefully, we'll be able to move to exclusivity before long.
Encouraging too, that the financial position has apparently improved significantly, though we must wait to see what that actually means. The club's management certainly deserve credit for the improvement; a lot of clubs don't address their problems and continue to spiral downwards.
I also applaud the decision to publish the accounts earlier. A cynic might say this was necessary for a company looking to be sold, but a potential buyer would have access to those figures anyway as part of their due diligence. It's a positive step regardless.
Of course a large part of the price being paid for this off-field improvement is the on-field deterioration. I've yet to see the team this season but sense that most fans won't share Dooley's optimism that the current squad will gel and results improve significantly, but I certainly hope he's right.
I've been very critical of the club recently, largely because it allowed itself to get into such a mess from a position of relative strength. I'm not interested now in who was to blame for that and I suspect the responsibility was probably a collective one rather than individual. It feels more likely that we'll be relegated than not, though there's more than enough time for that to change, but oddly I feel a little more positive about the club's future after that interview.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 16:15:47 GMT 1
nice that we are getting a lot of communication at the moment, unlike the likes of Reading who are still totally in the dark and not sure about the future of their club at all
I hear our chairman dug deep and produced another 6 figures yesterday to keep us going, must have been after Liams interview
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Post by DiglisShrew on Sept 27, 2024 17:34:10 GMT 1
nice that we are getting a lot of communication at the moment, unlike the likes of Reading who are still totally in the dark and not sure about the future of their club at all I hear our chairman dug deep and produced another 6 figures yesterday to keep us going, must have been after Liams interview So we can expect another at par share issue later in the year 🤔 |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 18:21:09 GMT 1
no idea, but I do remember getting pelters galore for suggesting exclusivity was requested with the nordic deal
fantasy, fake news , this only happens from the start, I was accused of lying and making it up
and yet look someone is clearly asking for exclusivity again
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Post by BlueAndAmber50 on Sept 27, 2024 19:01:39 GMT 1
no idea, but I do remember getting pelters galore for suggesting exclusivity was requested with the nordic deal fantasy, fake news , this only happens from the start, I was accused of lying and making it up and yet look someone is clearly asking for exclusivity again Dunno what we’d do without you Pilch! |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2024 19:40:49 GMT 1
no idea, but I do remember getting pelters galore for suggesting exclusivity was requested with the nordic deal fantasy, fake news , this only happens from the start, I was accused of lying and making it up and yet look someone is clearly asking for exclusivity again And we didn’t want to give them exclusivity. So how is todays update any different - talking to parties and one or more of them may want exclusivity soon? |
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 27, 2024 19:53:37 GMT 1
I hope those that have made rude disrespectful comments about our chairman will now be more careful with their words after it being confirmed he was putting 6 figure sums into the club on a monthly basis. All interest free which is very uncommon. Sure it's in RW's interest but it is more so in all of ours.
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 19:53:39 GMT 1
no idea, but I do remember getting pelters galore for suggesting exclusivity was requested with the nordic deal fantasy, fake news , this only happens from the start, I was accused of lying and making it up and yet look someone is clearly asking for exclusivity again And we didn’t want to give them exclusivity. So how is todays update any different - talking to parties and one or more of them may want exclusivity soon? the nordics turned up out of the blue, gave us 24 hours to give them exclusivity to discuss an offer of 20% less than the asking price, and therefore also ditch the 2 parties we were speaking with, they sent a snotty text of sorts next day saying goodbye and they were heading off towards Burton |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 19:58:22 GMT 1
nice that we are getting a lot of communication at the moment, unlike the likes of Reading who are still totally in the dark and not sure about the future of their club at all I hear our chairman dug deep and produced another 6 figures yesterday to keep us going, must have been after Liams interview So we can expect another at par share issue later in the year 🤔 sa I keep saying, he wont get it back I see the Farhad Moshiri has finally sold Everton , £400 million, he's put £750million in the 7 or 8 seasons he's been there www.goodisonnews.com/2024/09/25/farhad-moshiri-to-lose-fortune-after-new-everton-takeover-agreement/ |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Sept 27, 2024 20:24:15 GMT 1
Who knows whether he will or not - depends on the price per share the sale is based on . Less than £2.50 he will have lost out on the recent cash injections - more and he will have achieved a premium - no-one can tell at this time . |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 20:44:17 GMT 1
Who knows whether he will or not - depends on the price per share the sale is based on . Less than £2.50 he will have lost out on the recent cash injections - more and he will have achieved a premium - no-one can tell at this time . how much will you sell me your shares for ?  |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Sept 27, 2024 21:25:36 GMT 1
Who knows whether he will or not - depends on the price per share the sale is based on . Less than £2.50 he will have lost out on the recent cash injections - more and he will have achieved a premium - no-one can tell at this time . how much will you sell me your shares for ? You may be interested to note that I believe the Company Articles prevent me from doing so without permission of the company (i.e the Chairman) . |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 27, 2024 21:31:51 GMT 1
how much will you sell me your shares for ? You may be interested to note that I believe the Company Articles prevent me from doing so without permission of the company (i.e the Chairman) . how much would you sell them for if permission had been granted ? ;-) |
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Post by DiglisShrew on Sept 27, 2024 23:00:50 GMT 1
You may be interested to note that I believe the Company Articles prevent me from doing so without permission of the company (i.e the Chairman) . how much would you sell them for if permission had been granted ? ;-) When you know the overall selling price / purchase offer of the company get back to me and I’ll let you know . 👍 |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 28, 2024 7:07:54 GMT 1
how much would you sell them for if permission had been granted ? ;-) When you know the overall selling price / purchase offer of the company get back to me and I’ll let you know . 👍 Well there is about 1.8m shares at £2.50 so about 4.5m I guess we'll be in debt about 1.5m , so let's say around £1.50 20% off for me being a mate , looks like we could be in league 2 so let's round it down to a quid each , knock us a tenner off for cash, so how about £30 quid the lot ? I'll give you 12 hours to decide , cya later at the bull to finalise the deal 🤣 |
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Post by dibblydobbly on Sept 28, 2024 7:23:04 GMT 1
When you know the overall selling price / purchase offer of the company get back to me and I’ll let you know . 👍 Well there is about 1.8m shares at £2.50 so about 4.5m I guess we'll be in debt about 1.5m , so let's say around £1.50 20% off for me being a mate , looks like we could be in league 2 so let's round it down to a quid each , knock us a tenner off for cash, so how about £30 quid the lot ? I'll give you 12 hours to decide , cya later at the bull to finalise the deal 🤣 Whoa whoa, can I just butt in here, if you give me exclusivity by midnight sunday I am happy to bid £40 plus you get to stay on and tell me how to vote for six months |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 28, 2024 7:27:31 GMT 1
I've already got exclusivity until 7pm
If he messes me about I'm off to Reading 😝
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Post by belfastshrew on Sept 28, 2024 9:14:41 GMT 1
I think Mr Dooley is great. What an asset who will hopefully be with us for many years
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Post by greeny on Sept 28, 2024 10:19:31 GMT 1
I think Mr Dooley is great. What an asset who will hopefully be with us for many years Completely agree. Has made a huge improvements since he’s been in. If there is to be a takeover you’d think that he would probably end up moving on. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2024 11:03:56 GMT 1
no idea, but I do remember getting pelters galore for suggesting exclusivity was requested with the nordic deal fantasy, fake news , this only happens from the start, I was accused of lying and making it up and yet look someone is clearly asking for exclusivity again And we didn’t want to give them exclusivity. So how is todays update any different - talking to parties and one or more of them may want exclusivity soon? Exclusivity is the norm when dealing with a business sale/purchase.The normal length of time for such an arrangement is 30-60 days. Apparently, according to the Chairman the Nordic Group wanted a year!..which is absolutely unheard of in business history. Strikes me that at the time RW either didn't want to really sell or didn't want to sell to the Nordics so came up with a story re the exclusivity period. Times have changed |
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Post by Pilch on Sept 28, 2024 11:13:08 GMT 1
And we didn’t want to give them exclusivity. So how is todays update any different - talking to parties and one or more of them may want exclusivity soon? Exclusivity is the norm when dealing with a business sale/purchase.The normal length of time for such an arrangement is 30-60 days. Apparently, according to the Chairman the Nordic Group wanted a year!..which is absolutely unheard of in business history. Strikes me that at the time RW either didn't want to really sell or didn't want to sell to the Nordics so came up with a story re the exclusivity period. Times have changed these are the same nordics who spent 4 years all over Europe looking for an absolute giveaway bargain, and there they currently are 1 place above us too right our chairman ignored them when they turned up for the 4th time having wasted enough of our time already |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2024 11:14:23 GMT 1
I think Mr Dooley is great. What an asset who will hopefully be with us for many years Completely agree. Has made a huge improvements since he’s been in. If there is to be a takeover you’d think that he would probably end up moving on. He will be off sooner or later,its not just players who move around in the football industry. Anyone remember Caldwell turning down the General Secretary role for the Scottish FA? At the time I thought that he must be part of a consortium that, with Rolands approval,was going to buy the club 🙄 hence why he turned down a massive job and opportunity |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2024 11:17:42 GMT 1
Exclusivity is the norm when dealing with a business sale/purchase.The normal length of time for such an arrangement is 30-60 days. Apparently, according to the Chairman the Nordic Group wanted a year!..which is absolutely unheard of in business history. Strikes me that at the time RW either didn't want to really sell or didn't want to sell to the Nordics so came up with a story re the exclusivity period. Times have changed these are the same nordics who spent 4 years all over Europe looking for an absolute giveaway bargain, and there they currently are 1 place above us too right our chairman ignored them when they turned up for the 4th time having wasted enough of our time already Would be interesting to have an insight into the timings, interaction of their Burton deal |
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