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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 27, 2024 18:56:19 GMT 1
Out of interest, before the figures are public, what does a black hole look like in terms of size from your perspective? And what would be a storm in a teacup? Just looking for calibration if that is OK Another hefty whack to the cash reserve (£800k down in the last accounts) would be a black enough hole for me. Storm in a teacup if we've still got £1.5m in cash. Thank you - appreciated
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Post by ProudSalopian on Mar 27, 2024 19:03:08 GMT 1
I think we have to assume the reserves have been wiped out and we are running at a day to day loss, hence why the board are financing the club
The question for me is how much the debt currently is, how much are the weekly losses and what needs to be done to get us to break even (I'm not expecting the accounts to answer this)
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Post by tarporleyblue on Mar 27, 2024 20:05:08 GMT 1
I think we have to assume the reserves have been wiped out and we are running at a day to day loss, hence why the board are financing the club The question for me is how much the debt currently is, how much are the weekly losses and what needs to be done to get us to break even (I'm not expecting the accounts to answer this) So the £1.5m that we had in the bank will have all gone? I await the accounts with trepidation.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Mar 27, 2024 20:06:43 GMT 1
There certainly seems to have been a loss of control over the stock of clothing & other merchandise - up 81% from £52k to £94k at 30 June 2022. If that cost is higher than the amount it can be sold for (and this weekend's sale suggests overstocking could still be an issue), the stock should have been written down in the balance sheet to its "realisable value", rather than its cost. The resulting loss on that stock would be in the profit and loss account but, since the club isn't required to publish a detailed profit and loss, the financial hit would be hidden in the overall figures. If you look at old accounts while the stock point may be valid the figures simply are not big enough to be the epicentre of a problem whirlwind - compare cash at hand to stock and you will see the point Yep I'm aware of that and obviously understand that there are a lot of areas where losses can be hidden,and therefore avoid discussion and finger pointing. However I'm vindictive and I want to point a finger and we all know who changed our kit and supplier so I have no doubt he was involved in the ordering process. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a finders fee from Umbro
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 27, 2024 20:13:55 GMT 1
If you look at old accounts while the stock point may be valid the figures simply are not big enough to be the epicentre of a problem whirlwind - compare cash at hand to stock and you will see the point Yep I'm aware of that and obviously understand that there are a lot of areas where losses can be hidden,and therefore avoid discussion and finger pointing. However I'm vindictive and I want to point a finger and we all know who changed our kit and supplier so I have no doubt he was involved in the ordering process. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a finders fee from Umbro Understood on the need to point sometimes, and it lets a lot of emotion out too. If it is as bad as people think we do need to keep moving forward after that time, and look to make the club stronger every day. I will stop there in case I get on my soap box and tick people off
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 27, 2024 20:26:47 GMT 1
In the event of us having nothing left, going from having over £3m in the bank not that long ago; who would be responsible and where does that responsibility lie?
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Post by Pilch on Mar 27, 2024 20:35:17 GMT 1
like I said, most have already made their minds up who they are going to blame and are currently creating ways to do exactly that
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 27, 2024 20:36:53 GMT 1
In the event of us having nothing left, going from having over £3m in the bank not that long ago; who would be responsible and where does that responsibility lie? Good Question. I have pretty strong views on that, and I have a suspicion that your preferred answer is not necessarily mine given previous posts. Happy to buy you a beer or coffee sometime and talk it through
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 27, 2024 20:38:32 GMT 1
like I said, most have already made their minds up who they are going to blame and are currently creating ways to do exactly that You've arrived at that conclusion because it suits your agenda. I think most people on here are having an adult conversation about the accounts that are due, and just wondering exactly what they'll show and are worried about the club. I think as fans, most lifelong fans and contributors to the club; I think it's perfectly normal to scrutinise club accounts and hold the club and powers that be to account based on them?
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 27, 2024 20:40:34 GMT 1
In the event of us having nothing left, going from having over £3m in the bank not that long ago; who would be responsible and where does that responsibility lie? Good Question. I have pretty strong views on that, and I have a suspicion that your preferred answer is not necessarily mine given previous posts. Happy to buy you a beer or coffee sometime and talk it through Actually, I think we'd probably agree on where and why the money has gone. I suspect however that we'd disagree on ultimately who's fault that is; though I totally appreciate your insight and heartfelt opinion on it all 👍
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Post by Pilch on Mar 27, 2024 20:45:29 GMT 1
like I said, most have already made their minds up who they are going to blame and are currently creating ways to do exactly that You've arrived at that conclusion because it suits your agenda. I think most people on here are having an adult conversation about the accounts that are due, and just wondering exactly what they'll show and are worried about the club. I think as fans, most lifelong fans and contributors to the club; I think it's perfectly normal to scrutinise club accounts and hold the club and powers that be to account based on them? excuse me ? all I can see is one or two trying to get dibbley to blame someone up front, we've had the Umbro thing ( its cotterill ), and now your (its the chairman on his watch agenda). my agenda is as ive already stated, nothing will be black and white expect the bank balance
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 27, 2024 20:46:42 GMT 1
like I said, most have already made their minds up who they are going to blame and are currently creating ways to do exactly that You've arrived at that conclusion because it suits your agenda. I think most people on here are having an adult conversation about the accounts that are due, and just wondering exactly what they'll show and are worried about the club. I think as fans, most lifelong fans and contributors to the club; I think it's perfectly normal to scrutinise club accounts and hold the club and powers that be to account based on them? It may well be that you are both right some have made their mind up and many want to hold current powers to account. If you do read the club announcements and the social media rumours then so much has happened since last February that it could be assumed that the club has been dealing with individuals and issues for some time, and cleaning up as best it can. There is almost no-one from the top of the old structure left, at least seven have gone, mostly in 2023. Anyway roll on Friday and a good game of football..
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Post by armchairfan on Mar 27, 2024 22:16:57 GMT 1
I lost count of the number of people on here who said "the accounts will make interesting reading" or words to that effect (I was one, I think). But who actually thought that the accounts would give us ANSWERS....Perhaps Pilch knows.... As it is, we are now engaging in speculation as to what further speculation may be set in train by these accounts; if someone tells me that this is a healthy reaction, either from the Club's or the fans' viewpoint, my comments would be unrepeatable.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 27, 2024 22:21:39 GMT 1
I lost count of the number of people on here who said "the accounts will make interesting reading" or words to that effect (I was one, I think). But who actually thought that the accounts would give us ANSWERS....Perhaps Pilch knows.... As it is, we are now engaging in speculation as to what further speculation may be set in train by these accounts; if someone tells me that this is a healthy reaction, either from the Club's or the fans' viewpoint, my comments would be unrepeatable. I think your post might be speculating on the speculation about speculation about What Pilch knows. Perhaps it is time we just wait for them
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Post by wookeywombat on Mar 27, 2024 23:38:41 GMT 1
It is completely unfair to blame any one individual when it is obvious that all is due to Brexit/Covid/Tories/Russia/China
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Post by Pilch on Mar 27, 2024 23:44:05 GMT 1
I lost count of the number of people on here who said "the accounts will make interesting reading" or words to that effect (I was one, I think). But who actually thought that the accounts would give us ANSWERS....Perhaps Pilch knows.... As it is, we are now engaging in speculation as to what further speculation may be set in train by these accounts; if someone tells me that this is a healthy reaction, either from the Club's or the fans' viewpoint, my comments would be unrepeatable. all I know is I know less than those who we do know now know , I now know they want us to know now but come on this isn't an official Q&A and asking them to put up in public is a big no no
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Mar 27, 2024 23:44:25 GMT 1
I lost count of the number of people on here who said "the accounts will make interesting reading" or words to that effect (I was one, I think). But who actually thought that the accounts would give us ANSWERS....Perhaps Pilch knows.... As it is, we are now engaging in speculation as to what further speculation may be set in train by these accounts; if someone tells me that this is a healthy reaction, either from the Club's or the fans' viewpoint, my comments would be unrepeatable. I think this is a healthy reaction from both the club’s and the fans’ viewpoint. What are your comments?
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Post by belfastshrew on Mar 28, 2024 0:39:43 GMT 1
The comments are unrepeatable
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Mar 28, 2024 0:57:37 GMT 1
It is completely unfair to blame any one individual when it is obvious that all is due to Brexit/Covid/Tories/Russia/China Well absolutely everything else in the world is due to at least one of those things mentioned.
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Post by floreatsalopia1 on Mar 28, 2024 8:59:53 GMT 1
Only certain thing is there will be no cash at bank left !!
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2024 9:37:11 GMT 1
If you look at old accounts while the stock point may be valid the figures simply are not big enough to be the epicentre of a problem whirlwind - compare cash at hand to stock and you will see the point Yep I'm aware of that and obviously understand that there are a lot of areas where losses can be hidden,and therefore avoid discussion and finger pointing. However I'm vindictive and I want to point a finger and we all know who changed our kit and supplier so I have no doubt he was involved in the ordering process. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a finders fee from Umbro Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale.
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 28, 2024 9:50:36 GMT 1
Yep I'm aware of that and obviously understand that there are a lot of areas where losses can be hidden,and therefore avoid discussion and finger pointing. However I'm vindictive and I want to point a finger and we all know who changed our kit and supplier so I have no doubt he was involved in the ordering process. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a finders fee from Umbro Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale. My understanding is that the training kit sold in 23-24 is from the orders place for that season, notwithstanding that, the sales are clearly on to recover some funds.
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2024 9:52:06 GMT 1
In the event of us having nothing left, going from having over £3m in the bank not that long ago; who would be responsible and where does that responsibility lie? Would RW and others be supplementing the wages if we had money in the bank? No, so we already know that, it won’t be a surprise. Were waiting (with trepidation) for the accounts, it’s worth remembering our position this time 12 months ago. This was the Shropshire Stare 13/03/23 …….. Shrewsbury Town’s first full season without Covid restrictions has seen them return to a healthy financial position.
In the club’s most recent accounts for the 2021/22 season, they announced they have increased their turnover by £2.1m, cutting their pre-tax losses from £1.46m to just over £180,000.
Under the stewardship of Roland Wycherley, the club continues to be very well run, and as of June 30, 2022, they have a healthy balance £1.6m in their accounts.
This is down by £700,000 from the figures released from the season-ending June 2021, but it is still a very solid financial position for a club in League One.
The accounts demonstrate the importance of supporters to football clubs and the return of fans to Montgomery Waters Meadow provided the club with an extra £1m.
Fans in the ground also had a positive impact on the amount they were able to sell on match days – Town’s food and beverage sales increased by almost £500,0000 compared to just the £175 they made in the previous season. Town received half a million pounds from the Premier League last season, which is something they are hoping to receive again in the current campaign but the amount is not known at this point. The directors did not take a salary or dividend payments from the club consistent with prior years.
And the also revealed they continue to be debt free.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Mar 28, 2024 9:53:25 GMT 1
Yep I'm aware of that and obviously understand that there are a lot of areas where losses can be hidden,and therefore avoid discussion and finger pointing. However I'm vindictive and I want to point a finger and we all know who changed our kit and supplier so I have no doubt he was involved in the ordering process. It wouldn't surprise me if he got a finders fee from Umbro Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale. So how was it suddenly discovered and why was it,allegedly,hidden away? Plus who,if you're allegation is to be believed,arranged for it all to be hidden away? The reason that I'm interested is because it's the one set of figures that can't be hidden,they refer to a tangible asset therefore the true figures have to be revealed
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2024 9:59:47 GMT 1
Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale. My understanding is that the training kit sold in 23-24 is from the orders place for that season, notwithstanding that, the sales are clearly on to recover some funds. The surprise is that we had nothing for 2 years then a glut at a time we sold the kit franchise. The search for a new ‘partner’ started Dec 22 and was completed before the end of 22/23 season yet we ordered a vast quantity of UMBRO replica kit??
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2024 10:01:13 GMT 1
Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale. So how was it suddenly discovered and why was it,allegedly,hidden away? Plus who,if you're allegation is to be believed,arranged for it all to be hidden away? The reason that I'm interested is because it's the one set of figures that can't be hidden,they refer to a tangible asset therefore the true figures have to be revealed I haven’t got the answers.
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Post by martinshrew on Mar 28, 2024 10:16:04 GMT 1
In the event of us having nothing left, going from having over £3m in the bank not that long ago; who would be responsible and where does that responsibility lie? Would RW and others be supplementing the wages if we had money in the bank? No, so we already know that, it won’t be a surprise. Were waiting (with trepidation) for the accounts, it’s worth remembering our position this time 12 months ago. This was the Shropshire Stare 13/03/23 …….. Shrewsbury Town’s first full season without Covid restrictions has seen them return to a healthy financial position.
In the club’s most recent accounts for the 2021/22 season, they announced they have increased their turnover by £2.1m, cutting their pre-tax losses from £1.46m to just over £180,000.
Under the stewardship of Roland Wycherley, the club continues to be very well run, and as of June 30, 2022, they have a healthy balance £1.6m in their accounts.
This is down by £700,000 from the figures released from the season-ending June 2021, but it is still a very solid financial position for a club in League One.
The accounts demonstrate the importance of supporters to football clubs and the return of fans to Montgomery Waters Meadow provided the club with an extra £1m.
Fans in the ground also had a positive impact on the amount they were able to sell on match days – Town’s food and beverage sales increased by almost £500,0000 compared to just the £175 they made in the previous season. Town received half a million pounds from the Premier League last season, which is something they are hoping to receive again in the current campaign but the amount is not known at this point. The directors did not take a salary or dividend payments from the club consistent with prior years.
And the also revealed they continue to be debt free.
It beggars belief.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Mar 28, 2024 10:16:59 GMT 1
So how was it suddenly discovered and why was it,allegedly,hidden away? Plus who,if you're allegation is to be believed,arranged for it all to be hidden away? The reason that I'm interested is because it's the one set of figures that can't be hidden,they refer to a tangible asset therefore the true figures have to be revealed I haven’t got the answers. That's why the accounts are of interest. Couple it with the fact that for years RW told us we were a well run club, we fans became almost snobbish in our derision of clubs that got into financial trouble (remember Bury) and we were happy to accept that L1 was a realistic position for a club of our size etc. Now look at us, 12 months of madness and apparently we are still in "safe hands"
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Mar 28, 2024 10:17:18 GMT 1
Yet for the first two years of the UMBRO contract we didn’t have any UMBRO training kit available for fans, zero, then shed loads (literally) were discovered hence the fire sale. So how was it suddenly discovered and why was it,allegedly,hidden away? Plus who,if you're allegation is to be believed,arranged for it all to be hidden away? The reason that I'm interested is because it's the one set of figures that can't be hidden,they refer to a tangible asset therefore the true figures have to be revealed I don't think it will be a case of someone actually keeping it from sale, I mean within the club. Wasn't there a lot of issues at the time with getting cargo to Europe? Wasn't trade disrupted for a while that meant a good few clubs found they were without stock to sell, that new shirt sales were delayed? I can't recall what it was but I am sure there was something like that happening at the time. And with Town being Town if things were late running no doubt we were someway at the back of the queue when it came to getting things back up to speed (which compounded the issues further).
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Post by dibblydobbly on Mar 28, 2024 10:18:42 GMT 1
My understanding is that the training kit sold in 23-24 is from the orders place for that season, notwithstanding that, the sales are clearly on to recover some funds. The surprise is that we had nothing for 2 years then a glut at a time we sold the kit franchise. The search for a new ‘partner’ started Dec 22 and was completed before the end of 22/23 season yet we ordered a vast quantity of UMBRO replica kit?? Kit deals are not normally one year only, they last for 3-5 years, and ordering takes place really early on in the cycle, so orders may have been placed as early as October 22 for Autumn 23 delivery. Being a small fish in the Umbro pond I imagine gave us less control than we will have going forwards.
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