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Post by northwestman on Nov 17, 2022 18:43:52 GMT 1
The average public sector salary is £26,606 (not enough) whist the average state pension is £9626 so hardly a straight percentage comparison. So 5% increase would be £1330 for workers £962 for pensioners. Percentage terms are irrelevant though. Pensioners will have benefitted from the opportunity to buy and pay off property far more cheaply than somebody trying to make it on 26 grand in this day and age. Farcical. Ah, but 14 million of us (except ssshrew and myself) are potential Tory voters and are not to have our cages rattled. |
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 17, 2022 18:52:57 GMT 1
Pensioners = +10.1% + minimum of £300, with some getting £1,350 Benefits = +10.1% + some getting up to £1,050 Minimum wage = +9.7% Firefighters = +5% NHS = +4.75% Teachers = +5% Divide and rule. It's the Tory way. The average public sector salary is £26,606 (not enough) whist the average state pension is £9626 so hardly a straight percentage comparison. So 5% increase would be £1330 for workers £962 for pensioners. The average wage is over 10x less than the average house price. What was is 20, 30 and 40 years ago in reference to the average house price? Not a pensioners fault of cause, but utter nonsense to suggest we're all in this together when they're getting a rise double and more to what workers will be getting. |
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Post by davycrockett on Nov 17, 2022 18:58:56 GMT 1
The average public sector salary is £26,606 (not enough) whist the average state pension is £9626 so hardly a straight percentage comparison. So 5% increase would be £1330 for workers £962 for pensioners. The average wage is over 10x less than the average house price. What was is 20, 30 and 40 years ago in reference to the average house price? Not a pensioners fault of cause, but utter nonsense to suggest we're all in this together when they're getting a rise double and more to what workers will be getting. Yet nurses are striking for 15% and teachers 12%, pensioners can’t strike. We’ll see what they settle for, barristers was 15% increase. |
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 17, 2022 20:09:11 GMT 1
The average wage is over 10x less than the average house price. What was is 20, 30 and 40 years ago in reference to the average house price? Not a pensioners fault of cause, but utter nonsense to suggest we're all in this together when they're getting a rise double and more to what workers will be getting. Yet nurses are striking for 15% and teachers 12%, pensioners can’t strike. We’ll see what they settle for, barristers was 15% increase. Pensioners have had the triple lock for years though. Public sector staff have years of zero or sub inflation payrises to make up for. 12 to 15% is actually fairly restrained considering how much some of these jobs have been devalued over the past decade. |
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Post by Valerioch on Nov 17, 2022 20:49:20 GMT 1
I doubt it would matter anyway, but that is surely the final nail in this Conservative government?
Nobody voted for this, least of all the 45% odd who voted Conservative in 2019.
Absolute shambles
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 17, 2022 21:12:07 GMT 1
The average public sector salary is £26,606 (not enough) whist the average state pension is £9626 so hardly a straight percentage comparison. So 5% increase would be £1330 for workers £962 for pensioners. Percentage terms are irrelevant though. Pensioners will have benefitted from the opportunity to buy and pay off property far more cheaply than somebody trying to make it on 26 grand in this day and age. Farcical. May have.
Some pensioners were never able to buy and now struggle to pay the rent.
26 grand just isn't enough and we should all support better wages.
You are dividing instead of uniting - The Tories love that.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 17, 2022 21:15:50 GMT 1
Benefits do go to many in the working popuation too you know - tax credits, etc. Many pensioners are also working these days, especially if they rent.
Upward pressure from benefits and minimum wage helps the rest of the working population press for bigger rises.
As I said, united we stand, divided we fall.
Pensioners = +10.1% + minimum of £300, with some getting £1,350 Benefits = +10.1% + some getting up to £1,050 Minimum wage = +9.7% Firefighters = +5% NHS = +4.75% Teachers = +5% Divide and rule. It's the Tory way. Good to see some "get" it! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 21:41:03 GMT 1
When the media talk about pensioners, the likes of Good Morning Britain inevitably wheel out old Doris, in her 90s, no close friends or family to support her, not really well enough to leave her house which is cold, draughty and falling apart, struggling to survive from one day to the next. These people need to be protected at all costs.
But there will be many pensioners who have paid off their mortgage on their sizeable house, still happily married and driving two cars, retired with a generous private pension, sons and daughters in excellent jobs, going on 4 holidays a year.
How difficult is it to means test pension? No government of any party will ever be brave enough to do it.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 17, 2022 23:15:22 GMT 1
When the media talk about pensioners, the likes of Good Morning Britain inevitably wheel out old Doris, in her 90s, no close friends or family to support her, not really well enough to leave her house which is cold, draughty and falling apart, struggling to survive from one day to the next. These people need to be protected at all costs. But there will be many pensioners who have paid off their mortgage on their sizeable house, still happily married and driving two cars, retired with a generous private pension, sons and daughters in excellent jobs, going on 4 holidays a year. How difficult is it to means test pension? No government of any party will ever be brave enough to do it. So your plan is to take away any incentive to prepare your future, scrimp and save to buy a property, to better yourself?
Spend it all, enjoy yourself while you are young. Don't worry, if you are right side of the means test the government will see you ok.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2022 23:24:49 GMT 1
When the media talk about pensioners, the likes of Good Morning Britain inevitably wheel out old Doris, in her 90s, no close friends or family to support her, not really well enough to leave her house which is cold, draughty and falling apart, struggling to survive from one day to the next. These people need to be protected at all costs. But there will be many pensioners who have paid off their mortgage on their sizeable house, still happily married and driving two cars, retired with a generous private pension, sons and daughters in excellent jobs, going on 4 holidays a year. How difficult is it to means test pension? No government of any party will ever be brave enough to do it. So your plan is to take away any incentive to prepare your future, scrimp and save to buy a property, to better yourself?
Spend it all, enjoy yourself while you are young. Don't worry, if you are right side of the means test the government will see you ok.
Don’t really see your argument there. Pre-pension, if you have a good job and good income you get sod all from the government. If you don’t need government assistance you don’t get anything extra, so why should it be different at pension age? |
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 18, 2022 9:14:38 GMT 1
I doubt it would matter anyway, but that is surely the final nail in this Conservative government? Nobody voted for this, least of all the 45% odd who voted Conservative in 2019. Absolute shambles Perhaps. However, a fair bit has happened in the world since 2019. I very much doubt that the Tories had any of this in mind either when they were elected in 2019. |
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Post by salop27 on Nov 18, 2022 9:38:11 GMT 1
Love all this Tory divide and rule talk.
Does anyone think it will be different under any other government? It's how party politics works.
As Martin Lewis said earlier this year: "he described Westminster's adversarial politics as "abominable" and in need of major reform to help the UK deal with future crises".
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2022 10:24:15 GMT 1
The biggest unfullfilled promise, not addressed in any way in this budget is social care and the NHS. There was to be a cap of £80,000 on the amount anyone would have to pay in their lifetime and unblocking of NHS beds. It's still needed.....
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2022 10:28:01 GMT 1
Love all this Tory divide and rule talk. Does anyone think it will be different under any other government? It's how party politics works. As Martin Lewis said earlier this year: "he described Westminster's adversarial politics as "abominable" and in need of major reform to help the UK deal with future crises". That may be how the poitical system works, but the general public don't have to adopt that stance - we are all born, work, retire and die - so stick together! |
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Post by pughywasfree on Nov 18, 2022 10:28:12 GMT 1
Moaning about people on Benefits or Pensioners because the workers didn't get anything is totally bonkers. I don't blame people with that mindset thinking that way. The TV programmers and media have been programming people to aim there anger towards those on benefits for years. I know some on benefits appear to be living the high life but there are many that struggle to survive. I earn well over the average earnings and I am entitled to claim universal credit (I don't claim it) so when people talk about those on benefits they need to include the working people in that as well. Even the word "benefit" is meant to cause offence to those that do not receive it.
The state pension is next to nothing and the only way to be comfortable and enjoy life after retirement is to have worked your ass off and built wealth/ private pension. Which is wrong after nearly 50 years of paying tax.
Our anger should be directed towards those that caused a full time working family to struggle to pay thier bills.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2022 10:34:30 GMT 1
So your plan is to take away any incentive to prepare your future, scrimp and save to buy a property, to better yourself?
Spend it all, enjoy yourself while you are young. Don't worry, if you are right side of the means test the government will see you ok.
Don’t really see your argument there. Pre-pension, if you have a good job and good income you get sod all from the government. If you don’t need government assistance you don’t get anything extra, so why should it be different at pension age? My argument is it sends a message to everyone, young and old: Work hard at school Get the best job you can Provide for yourself, buy your home if you are able Prepare for your retirement if you are able
We won't penalise your efforts by limiting what you get in pension payments because of your hard work. Every pensioner will get the same government payments.
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Post by northwestman on Nov 18, 2022 12:16:55 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/nov/17/pain-postponed-but-hunts-statement-win-few-friendsTory MPs were dismayed by the “stealth” raids on income tax, which will drag millions into a higher rate, and the hike in fuel duty in particular. “Voters will have less money in their pocket every month, but public services aren’t getting any better. Won’t they wonder what’s the point in voting for us?” They won’t have to wait until the next general election, expected in the next 18 to 24 months, to find out. Many Tories fear they will face a backlash in May’s local elections – Sunak’s first significant electoral test – with 95% of councils expected to raise council tax now that the government has given them permission to do so. While they will be able to boast that the Tories have kept their pensions triple lock promise, the government has delayed plans for social care reform by two years, and councils remain strapped for cash, so the message on the doorstep will be nuanced. There was also more pain for government departments. Health and education will get enough to help schools and hospitals stagger on for the next two years, but other areas will have to find savings as they struggle to stretch existing budgets to cover the cost of inflation. Public sector pay is one area likely to be hit. And there will be more pain to come, with the majority of spending cuts put off until after the next election.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2022 14:11:44 GMT 1
Don’t really see your argument there. Pre-pension, if you have a good job and good income you get sod all from the government. If you don’t need government assistance you don’t get anything extra, so why should it be different at pension age? My argument is it sends a message to everyone, young and old: Work hard at school Get the best job you can Provide for yourself, buy your home if you are able Prepare for your retirement if you are able
We won't penalise your efforts by limiting what you get in pension payments because of your hard work. Every pensioner will get the same government payments.
Extreme examples these may be, but do you honestly think the tax payer should be giving the likes of Alan Sugar and Roy Hodgson £10k a year? Is that the most effective use of that public money? |
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2022 14:22:13 GMT 1
My argument is it sends a message to everyone, young and old: Work hard at school Get the best job you can Provide for yourself, buy your home if you are able Prepare for your retirement if you are able
We won't penalise your efforts by limiting what you get in pension payments because of your hard work. Every pensioner will get the same government payments.
Extreme examples these may be, but do you honestly think the tax payer should be giving the likes of Alan Sugar and Roy Hodgson £10k a year? Is that the most effective use of that public money? Yes I do! If they have paid the appropriate NI contributions then it's their right. It's also simpler than setting up checks to means test them, which those greedy enough would find a way round. I would imagine Alan Sugar continues to pay a fair wodge of tax, but how would you assess his right to a pension if his business fell into bankruptcy - means testing would be a costly minefield. |
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Post by northwestman on Nov 18, 2022 15:58:23 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/business/2022/nov/18/british-people-poorer-ifs-uk-autumn-statementThe British people “just got a lot poorer” after a series of “economic own goals” that have made a recovery much harder than it might have been, a leading thinktank has said. In his verdict on the chancellor’s autumn statement, Paul Johnson, the director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS), said the government was “reaping the costs of a long-term failure to grow the economy”, along with an ageing population and high levels of historic borrowing.
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Post by davycrockett on Nov 18, 2022 16:20:59 GMT 1
My argument is it sends a message to everyone, young and old: Work hard at school Get the best job you can Provide for yourself, buy your home if you are able Prepare for your retirement if you are able
We won't penalise your efforts by limiting what you get in pension payments because of your hard work. Every pensioner will get the same government payments.
Extreme examples these may be, but do you honestly think the tax payer should be giving the likes of Alan Sugar and Roy Hodgson £10k a year? Is that the most effective use of that public money? They’ve paid in so why not? Currently if you don’t work (but want to achieve the max state pension) you have to pay in a min £860 a year to buy a years pension back…. they’ll have paid in considerably more over a lifetime. Maybe give people the option, no national insurance but no healthcare / pension but would the loss of the higher paid contributors make the whole system fail? Pensions in payment are funded fro National Insurance receipts relying on the wealthier paying more in (for the capped pension they receive) so maybe they’re getting a raw deal. |
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