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Post by zenfootball2 on Jul 1, 2022 15:59:00 GMT 1
Teachers have a thankless job ; i have no idea what spinal point most teachers are paid or how they get up the spinal point www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.htmlthis pay rise may also be an attempt by the goverment to improve teacher retention metro.co.uk/2022/04/14/teachers-are-leaving-the-profession-in-droves-i-might-be-one-of-them-16460617/From the mail "Militant teaching unions have blasted Nadhim Zahawi's offer of a 9% pay rise after the Education Secretary blinked first and bowed down to them in a desperate bid to see off strike action this autumn. The Tory minister appears to have backed away from his position last week that striking would be 'unforgivable' by begging Chancellor Rishi Sunak to bankroll a wage hike for 130,000 junior teachers in England. But Mary Bousted, the general secretary of the National Education Union (NEU), said it was still a pay cut' when factoring in inflation. She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'If we don't receive a very much better offer we will be looking to ballot our members in October.'
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2022 16:07:12 GMT 1
Another Summer/Winter of discontent looms...
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 1, 2022 16:17:37 GMT 1
Not going to comment on the rights and wrongs of the wage demands and the strike action but the first thing that comes to mind is poor kids, as if their education and development hasn't already suffered enough these last couple of years.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 1, 2022 16:25:16 GMT 1
Damn. Nothing worse than parents bringing children into pubs. I like my early afternoon pints to be supped in peace.
If teachers are on strike I'll be adversely affected.
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Post by shrewder on Jul 1, 2022 16:28:41 GMT 1
Turning down 9%. No supporter of the government but personally under the present circumstances I would have thought it is not an unreasonable offer. I don't think anyone can expect an offer to match inflation.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2022 16:34:40 GMT 1
The 9% for teachers is what the minister has asked Sunak to fund - but only for new teachers, more experienced teachers might get an offer around 5%. When you consider that teacher training places look set to be only half filled this year and a quarter of new teachers leave the profession within a few years, something has to be done. Maybe not just the pay rate.
BT and Openreach techicians voted to strike too - first time in 25 years, with over 95% in favour.
People really are fed up of taking less than inflation rises for years, it builds up.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2022 16:40:20 GMT 1
Another Summer/Winter of discontent looms... We won't be getting a "Who governs Britain? election, that's for sure.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 1, 2022 17:03:22 GMT 1
I can see lots of groups of workers demanding bigger pay rises. And I can see why they will claim to need them with prices of stuff going up hugely.
I can also see the reasons why we cant afford to pay those levels of increases.
Some 'interesting' times ahead, with plenty of strikes etc going ahead.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2022 17:25:04 GMT 1
I can see lots of groups of workers demanding bigger pay rises. And I can see why they will claim to need them with prices of stuff going up hugely. I can also see the reasons why we cant afford to pay those levels of increases. Some 'interesting' times ahead, with plenty of strikes etc going ahead. Maybe if Sunak had been a bit quicker thinking inflation could have been damped down a little? I think we could all guess that if the VAT rate on petrol was reduced retailers would mop up the extra profit, better to have cut the VAT on something more price controlled - like electricity. I think we all knew there should be a windfall tax on oil companies 2 or 3 months before he did too. Then maybe something to ensure top execs didn't award themselves huge pay rises, stuff like that.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 1, 2022 18:13:52 GMT 1
I just worry about the binmen. Most of the others will have minimal effect on me, though BT employees going on strike might foul up my internet connection if it goes down. I do have a list of pubs that don't encourage children if the teachers come out, though it's a small one nowadays. The Royal Oak in Didsbury was an absolute haven, but unfortunately Arthur the landlord has long since gone.
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Post by indalo on Jul 1, 2022 19:38:49 GMT 1
I just worry about the binmen. Most of the others will have minimal effect on me, though BT employees going on strike might foul up my internet connection if it goes down. I do have a list of pubs that don't encourage children if the teachers come out, though it's a small one nowadays. The Royal Oak in Didsbury was an absolute haven, but unfortunately Arthur the landlord has long since gone. Bl***y hell NWM you don't arf come over as a miserable old git sometimes 😂(for those who are about to get highly offended on his behalf that was a joke by the way).I think we're probably about the same age but I see it quite differently.For me being surrounded by a load of people my own age in the pub feels like being in God's waiting room. The days of children being seen and not heard have long gone I'm afraid.If you're really serious about this and not on the wind up, I'm told you can get a pair of earplugs at the poundshop ( a bargain at only £1 a set)😂
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Post by indalo on Jul 1, 2022 19:42:29 GMT 1
Forgot to say that poundshop by me still accepts coin of the realm by the way.Saves having to use that pesky bit of plastic 😜
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Post by vladimir on Jul 1, 2022 19:42:54 GMT 1
Turning down 9%. No supporter of the government but personally under the present circumstances I would have thought it is not an unreasonable offer. I don't think anyone can expect an offer to match inflation. So basically you endorse a real terms pay cut for all?
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2022 19:43:22 GMT 1
I like children, but I couldn't eat a whole one.
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Post by indalo on Jul 1, 2022 19:45:38 GMT 1
I like children, but I couldn't eat a whole one. Me neither especially without mustard and ketchup 😜
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 1, 2022 19:47:08 GMT 1
I can see lots of groups of workers demanding bigger pay rises. And I can see why they will claim to need them with prices of stuff going up hugely. I can also see the reasons why we cant afford to pay those levels of increases. Some 'interesting' times ahead, with plenty of strikes etc going ahead. If we had generally had inflation level increases over the last few years we would not be so far behind now. There's now no headroom to be able to accept much less than the massive inflation rate.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 1, 2022 23:55:03 GMT 1
I can see lots of groups of workers demanding bigger pay rises. And I can see why they will claim to need them with prices of stuff going up hugely. I can also see the reasons why we cant afford to pay those levels of increases. Some 'interesting' times ahead, with plenty of strikes etc going ahead. If we had generally had inflation level increases over the last few years we would not be so far behind now. There's now no headroom to be able to accept much less than the massive inflation rate. Think I do understand what you are saying here. And I do pretty much agree with you. Weve had years where the cost of things hasnt risen very much in real terms, and now we are going to have to play catch up. You just cant fathom out why a global pandemic has actually brought this on though.
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 2, 2022 0:39:51 GMT 1
They already get a quarter of the year off, what more do they want?
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Post by shrewder on Jul 2, 2022 5:24:11 GMT 1
Turning down 9%. No supporter of the government but personally under the present circumstances I would have thought it is not an unreasonable offer. I don't think anyone can expect an offer to match inflation. So basically you endorse a real terms pay cut for all? I don't but during the whole of my working life of some 45 years I can hardly ever recall receiving a pay rise that matched inflation levels. It was nearly always a case of compromise. During that time we were living through the highest inflation rates ever known.
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 2, 2022 7:47:11 GMT 1
I just worry about the binmen. Most of the others will have minimal effect on me, though BT employees going on strike might foul up my internet connection if it goes down. I do have a list of pubs that don't encourage children if the teachers come out, though it's a small one nowadays. The Royal Oak in Didsbury was an absolute haven, but unfortunately Arthur the landlord has long since gone. Do they still offer bread and cheese at lunch times?
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Post by Pilch on Jul 2, 2022 8:51:50 GMT 1
be careful someone take take your post out of context
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 2, 2022 8:58:40 GMT 1
be careful someone take take your post out of context The worlds gone mad, mad I tell you.
Or is it just me?
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Post by northwestman on Jul 2, 2022 9:22:26 GMT 1
I just worry about the binmen. Most of the others will have minimal effect on me, though BT employees going on strike might foul up my internet connection if it goes down. I do have a list of pubs that don't encourage children if the teachers come out, though it's a small one nowadays. The Royal Oak in Didsbury was an absolute haven, but unfortunately Arthur the landlord has long since gone. Do they still offer bread and cheese at lunch times? Yes, but very much a reduced choice, and nowhere near the same size of portions.
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Post by Pilch on Jul 2, 2022 9:34:19 GMT 1
its times like this that someone ( not sure who ) needs to step forward and suggest a nationwide pay rise of about 5% no strings for all, we all know things have happened in the world last few years and unless we tackle it sensibly it could get worse
it would save the country billions as a whole in wasted time alone
ps anyone turning down 9% in the current climate needs a kick up the arse
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 2, 2022 9:38:12 GMT 1
its times like this that someone ( not sure who ) needs to step forward and suggest a nationwide pay rise of about 5% no strings for all, we all know things have happened in the world last few years and unless we tackle it sensibly it could get worse it would save the country billions as a whole in wasted time alone ps anyone turning down 9% in the current climate needs a kick up the arse Sounds like a united we stand approach. Currently it seems to be a divided we fall approach.
The divided approach perpetuated by propaganda like "teachers reject 9%" - that 9% is not being offered to all teachers, only the new starters who have got way behind and leave in droves soon after qualifying.
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Post by blazey on Jul 2, 2022 11:24:43 GMT 1
Teachers have a thankless job ; i have no idea what spinal point most teachers are paid or how they get up the spinal point www.nasuwt.org.uk/advice/pay-pensions/pay-scales/england-pay-scales.htmlthis pay rise may also be an attempt by the goverment to improve teacher retention metro.co.uk/2022/04/14/teachers-are-leaving-the-profession-in-droves-i-might-be-one-of-them-16460617/From the mail "Militant teaching unions have blasted Nadhim Zahawi's offer of a 9% pay rise after the Education Secretary blinked first and bowed down to them in a desperate bid to see off strike action this autumn. The Tory minister appears to have backed away from his position last week that striking would be 'unforgivable' by begging Chancellor Rishi Sunak to bankroll a wage hike for 130,000 junior teachers in England. But Mary Bousted, the general secretary of the National Education Union (NEU), said it was still a pay cut' when factoring in inflation. She told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: 'If we don't receive a very much better offer we will be looking to ballot our members in October.' Misleading thread / thread title designed to cause mischief imo. Nobody has turned anything down at this stage, the NEU has suggested the initial offer is insufficient, and if an improved offer is not forthcoming they would be inclined to put it to a ballot of members. It’s nothing unusual or irregular in terms of wage negotiations across large industries such as teaching. As others have alluded to the 9% does not yet appear to be a firm offer, or across the board. If RPI is running at 11.7% an offer of any less cannot be described as a “rise”, particularly across the wider background of a decade of pay restraint. Ive been working in schools (in a non-teaching role) for a decade, treat anything you hear about “quarter of the year off” as the absolute nonsense it is. Trust me, I’m the last one out at night and I can’t get rid of half of them
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 2, 2022 11:47:51 GMT 1
"Misleading thread / thread title designed to cause mischief imo" - Not the original poster's fault though, the government and media love to mislead, divide and rule....
“quarter of the year off”? Check out the teacher's car park towards the end of the summer break, many of the teachers will be in, preparing.
I expect Martinshrew can actually pick when he takes his holiday? Teachers can't - and have to stump up peak time prices for their holidays.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 2, 2022 12:30:45 GMT 1
The irony is that we're often told by the usual suspects not to begrudge the super wealthy their earnings because they've "worked hard and taken risks for it" but when you get groups of people getting together, organising, taking the risk of striking etc they're told to know their place.
Ultimately teachers are people with a particular skill we need as a country and a lack of which could cause us some serious problems. Judging by the number of ex teachers in my profession, contrary to popular belief they're very employable elsewhere.
They've been taken for granted and disrespected for a long time, a major strategic error by our political leadership, and are doing what they can to get what's theirs. It's no different from people in the private sector using a job offer elsewhere as leverage; teachers are on set payscales so can't really do that so withdrawing labour as a whole is their negotiation tool.
We hear a lot about "the politics of envy" but I often wonder how much of the criticism of strike action actually comes from envy at the fact that these groups have the balls, the organisation and the leverage to stand up to their employer. Not everybody has that.
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Post by Scarecrow on Jul 2, 2022 12:52:57 GMT 1
I’m a teacher and in a trade union. We’ve not turned down 9%, in fact the government have said nothing to us except vaguely suggest we could have 3%.
We care about the kids but after the pandemic is it fair to give us a real terms 7% pay cut? I don’t think so.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jul 2, 2022 13:00:52 GMT 1
They already get a quarter of the year off, what more do they want? As others have pointed out, I think that's a bit of a misnomer but it's still an interesting point; whatever they get it evidently isn't enough. As I understand it, conservative ideology places a big emphasis on personal responsibility. These people have taken personal responsibility through training, study etc and taken risk via student debt to put themselves in a position where they have more leverage in the labour market and can get certain concessions as a result. I thought that'd be right up your street as a Conservative, right? Like the train guys; with all the perks and the pay they get they ought to be conservative icons.
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