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Post by block12massive on Jun 30, 2022 16:36:01 GMT 1
If the club cancelled it, it sets a dangerous precedent that any interest group can highjack the clubs plans. It wasn’t even a representative side for goodness sake. Does this mean we could never sign a Quatari player, for example? Qatar is an easy target because as a country they haven't achieved very much so are easy enough to avoid. If you were genuinely bothered about human rights you'd boycott China but ironically the same Town fans applauding the Qatar friendly boycott are the same people hanging on desperately for news of when they can get their hands on the new 'Made in China' Umbro replica kit. Wait 'til they hear about the Chinese Communist Party's record on human rights. Edit: For anyone that wants a "receipt" on the Umbro claim; www.encyclopedia.com/books/politics-and-business-magazines/umbro-plc
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 16:40:52 GMT 1
If the club cancelled it, it sets a dangerous precedent that any interest group can highjack the clubs plans. It wasn’t even a representative side for goodness sake. Does this mean we could never sign a Quatari player, for example? Qatar is an easy target because as a country they haven't achieved very much so are easy enough to avoid. If you were genuinely bothered about human rights you'd boycott China but ironically the same Town fans applauding the Qatar friendly boycott are the same people hanging on desperately for news of when they can get their hands on the new 'Made in China' Umbro replica kit. Wait 'til they hear about the Chinese Communist Party's record on human rights. Surely we're all grown up enough to know that everyone's life is full of little compromises and hypocrisies? Nobody claims to be perfect and nobody can fight every battle. Make a stand here, don't make a stand there ..... so what? We can't all be Jesus (not the footballer). Oh, and I couldn't care less about a horrible plastic kit. That's for the team to wear, not me.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 30, 2022 16:48:01 GMT 1
If the club cancelled it, it sets a dangerous precedent that any interest group can highjack the clubs plans. It wasn’t even a representative side for goodness sake. Does this mean we could never sign a Quatari player, for example? What exactly is the danger of this hypothetical precedent? That the club listens to its fans? That's a bad thing? As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 30, 2022 16:59:52 GMT 1
Qatar is an easy target because as a country they haven't achieved very much so are easy enough to avoid. If you were genuinely bothered about human rights you'd boycott China but ironically the same Town fans applauding the Qatar friendly boycott are the same people hanging on desperately for news of when they can get their hands on the new 'Made in China' Umbro replica kit. Wait 'til they hear about the Chinese Communist Party's record on human rights. Surely we're all grown up enough to know that everyone's life is full of little compromises and hypocrisies? Nobody claims to be perfect and nobody can fight every battle. Make a stand here, don't make a stand there ..... so what? We can't all be Jesus (not the footballer). Oh, and I couldn't care less about a horrible plastic kit. That's for the team to wear, not me. There isn't enough time in the day to be perturbed by every single injustice on the planet, I get that. But you can't claim to be an advocate of human rights or LGBT rights only in instances where it's convenient for you to do so but not in others that may require effort - or educating yourself. Otherwise you're not only a massive hypocrite but it may expose your own biases in the way you view the world.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 30, 2022 17:07:21 GMT 1
What exactly is the danger of this hypothetical precedent? That the club listens to its fans? That's a bad thing? As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants. Touche... Slippery slope indeed, precedent set, very poor and unjustified decision to cancel
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 30, 2022 17:08:53 GMT 1
I'm assuming we wont be signing any Russian players right now......... ??
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 30, 2022 17:13:24 GMT 1
I'm assuming we wont be signing any Russian players right now......... ?? China has probably snapped them up
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 17:31:52 GMT 1
Surely we're all grown up enough to know that everyone's life is full of little compromises and hypocrisies? Nobody claims to be perfect and nobody can fight every battle. Make a stand here, don't make a stand there ..... so what? We can't all be Jesus (not the footballer). Oh, and I couldn't care less about a horrible plastic kit. That's for the team to wear, not me. There isn't enough time in the day to be perturbed by every single injustice on the planet, I get that. But you can't claim to be an advocate of human rights or LGBT rights only in instances where it's convenient for you to do so but not in others that may require effort - or educating yourself. Otherwise you're not only a massive hypocrite but it may expose your own biases in the way you view the world. "There isn't enough time in the day ......" But you can't be selective and have to fight every battle or else you're "a massive hypocrite". Do I need to point out the logical inconsistency in those comments?
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 17:32:58 GMT 1
As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants. Touche... Slippery slope indeed, precedent set, very poor and unjustified decision to cancel Not that you know who made the decision or why they made it .....
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 30, 2022 17:37:38 GMT 1
There isn't enough time in the day to be perturbed by every single injustice on the planet, I get that. But you can't claim to be an advocate of human rights or LGBT rights only in instances where it's convenient for you to do so but not in others that may require effort - or educating yourself. Otherwise you're not only a massive hypocrite but it may expose your own biases in the way you view the world. "There isn't enough time in the day ......" But you can't be selective and have to fight every battle or else you're "a massive hypocrite". Do I need to point out the logical inconsistency in those comments? It doesn’t take much time to know if you have any Chinese goods or clothing in your house let’s be honest Doesn’t take much time to spot the blatant hypocrisy too, in choosing what to be offended by and when
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jun 30, 2022 17:38:38 GMT 1
Really I think we’d all like to know how the final decision to cancel came about, but it might be best for all parties concerned that nothing more is said about this and it’s allowed to fade into a distant memory.
Hopefully Biz and co can still salvage something from their trip.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 30, 2022 17:38:48 GMT 1
What exactly is the danger of this hypothetical precedent? That the club listens to its fans? That's a bad thing? As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants. The thing is Qatar’s human rights issues have been in the news for a few years with the world concentrating on them due to their (dodgy) bid. A couple of days before we announced the friendly another club pulled out for the same reasons our fans complained about the fixture so very topical at the time of the announcement. Cant disagree with others thoughts on many countries but we’d have to withdraw from the game if we vetted every clubs background.
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 30, 2022 17:39:04 GMT 1
Touche... Slippery slope indeed, precedent set, very poor and unjustified decision to cancel Not that you know who made the decision or why they made it ..... Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 17:42:05 GMT 1
What exactly is the danger of this hypothetical precedent? That the club listens to its fans? That's a bad thing? As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants. I agree, the club can't please everyone all the time. But this isn't about selling chips in the concourse or mending the fence on Oteley Road. Proud Salopians is a representative group, not a pressure group, and it represents a section of fans who were made to feel unwelcome and unsafe in football grounds for far too long. Indeed, they were made to feel that way in society generally during the lifetime of many on here. If we were playing a team from the US, none of this would have arisen because the issue is completely different and too disconnected from a football match. But, like it or not, that isn't the case with Qatar. Nobody is suggesting the club should always do what a section of fans want. If it did, few managers would last a season. But nobody believes that will happen anyway, with or without this "precedent".
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 30, 2022 17:43:08 GMT 1
Now let's see what happens to the Portsmouth vs Qatar SC friendly on July 9th.
If any pressure group is going to keep moaning until friendlies badly needed to set the team up for the season are cancelled then they are going to be made to feel unwelcome again.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 17:43:08 GMT 1
"There isn't enough time in the day ......" But you can't be selective and have to fight every battle or else you're "a massive hypocrite". Do I need to point out the logical inconsistency in those comments? It doesn’t take much time to know if you have any Chinese goods or clothing in your house let’s be honest Doesn’t take much time to spot the blatant hypocrisy too, in choosing what to be offended by and when You have to factor in the first sentence to answer the question. Simply repeating the second sentence with different words doesn't do that.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 30, 2022 17:43:43 GMT 1
Not that you know who made the decision or why they made it ..... Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements Because it became topical?
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Post by Valerioch on Jun 30, 2022 17:47:55 GMT 1
Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements Because it became topical? I imagine most town fans heard about the friendly with this Qatar club last week. I didn’t see sight nor sound of any complaints on here or social media (there may have been, I just didn’t see any). Suddenly folk become offended/support it being cancelled because a statement is made. Yet they didn’t bat an eye lid before said statement… utterly bizarre behaviour. My last say on the matter anyway, opinion has been made clear, and the matter and subsequent inquest will probably be laughed at in future
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Post by venceremos on Jun 30, 2022 17:55:25 GMT 1
Not that you know who made the decision or why they made it ..... Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements When you've said "slippery slope indeed, precedent set, very poor and unjustified decision to cancel" then yeah, I think it does matter who made the decision. If it's a harmless kickabout, why are you so bothered that it isn't happening? Should a harmless kickabout take precedence over supporting LGBT fans? For about the third time, I have to point out that the Proud Salopians first contacted the club a week ago, on the day the match was announced, not yesterday. Can we at least drop the notion that nobody cared until yesterday?
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Post by block12massive on Jun 30, 2022 17:56:31 GMT 1
Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements Because it became topical? Who decides what is 'topical' and what isn't? This is where I go back to what I said about people making 'editorial decisions' in quantifying their outrage. The BBC ran the Qatar story yesterday on the basis of a tweet with less than 100 likes. I've seen tweets condemning Chinese Human rights abuses with hundreds of thousands of likes and it not get a sniff from the mainstream media. Selective outrage. Hypocrisy. Poor form. Vested/monetary interests. However you want to justify it, it stinks and many people on here seem to be guilty of it.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 30, 2022 18:01:41 GMT 1
Does it matter who made it? A harmless kick about in Spain has been derailed by one party or the other due to recent events. Pretty obvious why it was made, as nobody batted an eyelid until yesterdays statements When you've said "slippery slope indeed, precedent set, very poor and unjustified decision to cancel" then yeah, I think it does matter who made the decision. If it's a harmless kickabout, why are you so bothered that it isn't happening? Should a harmless kickabout take precedence over supporting LGBT fans? For about the third time, I have to point out that the Proud Salopians first contacted the club a week ago, on the day the match was announced, not yesterday. Can we at least drop the notion that nobody cared until yesterday? I saw someone query this on twitter. The group posted a screenshot of an email sent to Brian at half 10 last Friday night. I don't know about you but my out of office gets turned on at about half 4 on a Friday afternoon and doesn't come off until Monday morning. By Wednesday morning this group decided they were going to air their grievances on social media. Do you thanks a fair and realistic timescale for the club to have had to work with? There's no question the Watford statement influenced the outcome in my opinion.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 30, 2022 18:11:58 GMT 1
Just go to the Beachcomber and on it.
First world problems if booked for the game.
Cracking place English Square.
Cheers! 🥂
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2022 18:17:09 GMT 1
Who decides what is 'topical' and what isn't? Well in this instance wasn’t it you, as you started the thread?👍
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Post by shroppygold on Jun 30, 2022 18:18:37 GMT 1
Snowflake generation 1 football 0
Pathetic
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 30, 2022 18:21:23 GMT 1
Snowflake generation 1 football 0 Pathetic Things will only get worse then.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 30, 2022 18:22:15 GMT 1
Who decides what is 'topical' and what isn't? Well in this instance wasn’t it you, as you started the thread?👍 I have a horrible feeling I gave them the idea. Wish I hadn't now.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 30, 2022 18:37:56 GMT 1
Snowflake generation 1 football 0 Pathetic Who are the bigger snowflakes, the ones making a valid point to the club about playing a game against a team from a country where being gay can get you stoned to death or those crying when the club (if indeed it even was the club) choose to cancel the game, because they actually agree with the ones who made the valid point in the first place?
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 30, 2022 18:46:20 GMT 1
As we ‘re discovering on here, STFC fans have a wide range of views on many issues. The club cannot listen and simply follow every fan who feels aggrieved about this or that. That’s why it’s potentially a dangerous precedent in my opinion. Should we not play a team from the US, in the opportunity arose, because some people object to the recent Supreme Court ruling? The club should always listen to its fans, doesn’t mean they always have to do what a pressure group wants. I agree, the club can't please everyone all the time. But this isn't about selling chips in the concourse or mending the fence on Oteley Road. Proud Salopians is a representative group, not a pressure group, and it represents a section of fans who were made to feel unwelcome and unsafe in football grounds for far too long. Indeed, they were made to feel that way in society generally during the lifetime of many on here. If we were playing a team from the US, none of this would have arisen because the issue is completely different and too disconnected from a football match. But, like it or not, that isn't the case with Qatar. Nobody is suggesting the club should always do what a section of fans want. If it did, few managers would last a season. But nobody believes that will happen anyway, with or without this "precedent". But we’re not playing in Quatar, or even a representative side. It maybe that the Quatari side oppose their Govt stance, who knows? Should every sports team in Quatar become pariahs because of their Govt? I know that is the case with Russia at the moment. Sports and politics and ethics are a very difficult mix.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2022 18:50:24 GMT 1
Snowflake generation 1 football 0 Pathetic Who are the bigger snowflakes, the ones making a valid point to the club about playing a game against a team from a country where being gay can get you stoned to death or those crying when the club (if indeed it even was the club) choose to cancel the game, because they actually agree with the ones who made the valid point in the first place? Fair point! Some people cry over gay men and women being stoned to death whilst overs cry over the colour of their passport. Which ones are the snowflakes?
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Post by shroppygold on Jun 30, 2022 18:57:23 GMT 1
Snowflake generation 1 football 0 Pathetic Who are the bigger snowflakes, the ones making a valid point to the club about playing a game against a team from a country where being gay can get you stoned to death or those crying when the club (if indeed it even was the club) choose to cancel the game, because they actually agree with the ones who made the valid point in the first place? But these same people and I have no doubt will be cheering on England in three four months. I bet all these people who are moaning have s**t in there house made in china etc.
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