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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 29, 2022 12:43:52 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 29, 2022 12:49:45 GMT 1
What about if it was a Russian Club? Just a question. Qatar, like a lot of places, including, as of last week, the US, have things going on that many people don't like. But they haven't recently trampled all over a sovereign country, committed war crimes, killed another countries civilions, threatened a World War, flattened whole cities, blocked food exports plunging other countries into food poverty, been slow to allow humaitarian efforts to evacuate war torn areas, etc. Couldn't be bothered to point out the glaringly obvious, thanks for saving me the time.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 12:53:32 GMT 1
I can't imagine us playing a club side from Qatar at a hotel in Benidorm will attract much attention in the footballing world, and I'd be surprised if there was enough of our fans who would complain/put pressure on the club to pull out. I do get the concerns but I'm just not easy with football fans picking who they want to play against on moral grounds, there's plenty of football clubs in this country who are funded by states/businesses with questionable ethics, so where do you draw the line? Fair enough. How about a friendly against Spartak Moscow? Would you draw the line there?
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 12:55:17 GMT 1
don't take this as an opinion but it was illegal here too, last time we hosted the world cup Time travel is not an option. Especially not backwards. Ask Professor Brian Cox.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 13:08:00 GMT 1
Well I'm taking Pilch's philosophical approach to this one. It's way outside anything I can control so I have to accept the rottenness of this World Cup and our dealings with the petro-states generally. I'll watch the tournament but I'd still support England withdrawing from the World Cup & hope they will at least make a meaningful public protest, I'm glad Watford fans have pushed their club away from their friendly and I'm disappointed that our club has chosen to arrange this one.
I wouldn't cross the road to watch it if I was in Benidorm so I guess I can say I'm boycotting it! Then again, I'm not planning to go to any of our friendlies anyway - an extended boycott!
I expect this makes me one of martinshrew's "penises" (that sounds grotesque) but, since he's called me a paedophile enabler in the past, I can live with that.
Life's full of contradictions and inconsistencies and this is just another of them.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 29, 2022 13:14:27 GMT 1
don't take this as an opinion but it was illegal here too, last time we hosted the world cup Time travel is not an option. Especially not backwards. Ask Professor Brian Cox. why would i need to ask him ? the evidence is here for all of us to see that time travel will never be possible i was just hinting again that it's another case of our laws our fine , let's be shocked at someone else's the universe is about 14 billions years old , so what if a few places are a just lagging fractionally behind our stance , and who's to say we are even correct ? i wonder how mother nature would side on the matter if such a thing were possible my stance is simply when in Rome.... if you don't take that stance you could start digging deeper and end up boycotting everything
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 29, 2022 13:14:42 GMT 1
I can't imagine us playing a club side from Qatar at a hotel in Benidorm will attract much attention in the footballing world, and I'd be surprised if there was enough of our fans who would complain/put pressure on the club to pull out. I do get the concerns but I'm just not easy with football fans picking who they want to play against on moral grounds, there's plenty of football clubs in this country who are funded by states/businesses with questionable ethics, so where do you draw the line? Fair enough. How about a friendly against Spartak Moscow? Would you draw the line there? Please see above.
"Qatar, like a lot of places, including, as of last week, the US, have things going on that many people don't like. But they haven't recently trampled all over a sovereign country, committed war crimes, killed another countries civilions, threatened a World War, flattened whole cities, blocked food exports plunging other countries into food poverty, been slow to allow humaitarian efforts to evacuate war torn areas, etc".
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 29, 2022 13:15:50 GMT 1
Well I'm taking Pilch's philosophical approach to this one. It's way outside anything I can control so I have to accept the rottenness of this World Cup and our dealings with the petro-states generally. I'll watch the tournament but I'd still support England withdrawing from the World Cup & hope they will at least make a meaningful public protest, I'm glad Watford fans have pushed their club away from their friendly and I'm disappointed that our club has chosen to arrange this one. I wouldn't cross the road to watch it if I was in Benidorm so I guess I can say I'm boycotting it! Then again, I'm not planning to go to any of our friendlies anyway - an extended boycott! I expect this makes me one of martinshrew's "penises" (that sounds grotesque) but, since he's called me a paedophile enabler in the past, I can live with that. Life's full of contradictions and inconsistencies and this is just another of them. Just to clarify, you'll watch a World Cup, a worldwide National team tournament being hosted in Qatar, but you're still dribbling on about town playing a completely meaningless training game in Spain against a club side from Qatar?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2022 13:52:07 GMT 1
I can't imagine us playing a club side from Qatar at a hotel in Benidorm will attract much attention in the footballing world, and I'd be surprised if there was enough of our fans who would complain/put pressure on the club to pull out. I do get the concerns but I'm just not easy with football fans picking who they want to play against on moral grounds, there's plenty of football clubs in this country who are funded by states/businesses with questionable ethics, so where do you draw the line? Fair enough. How about a friendly against Spartak Moscow? Would you draw the line there? Personally, no I wouldn't. I haven't agreed with the backlash that has seen Russian sports/athletes/artists/musicians/academics etc. banished from society but suspect I may be in the minority there.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 29, 2022 14:37:30 GMT 1
I’m not. Just pointing out the difference. I disagree, England are voluntarily playing at a World Cup that they're perfectly entitled to not attend. Dress it up how you want. I think the problem here is you wanted England to boycott, but they didn't. I did and they didn’t 👍 not sure what we’re disagreeing about.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 29, 2022 14:39:54 GMT 1
On reflection I think we can all agree the optics don't look particularly great in the current climate.
I expect this probably answers some questions on a previous thread I and a few others asked wondering why the pre-season tour seemed to be shrouded in so much secrecy.
I've no doubt that there was concern upstairs that this game v Qatar SC could become a talking point and given that the Coventry game fell through, it was a case keeping details on the down low for as long as possible to avoid any potential negative publicity but also fulfilling a match for the handful of fans that had already booked flights. The alternative being to can it completely.
There's a lot of tripe being spewed about the club actively seeking out this Qatari side and "promoting" this fixture - an utter fabrication given that we knew nothing about it up until less than a week ago.
Also worth noting that the tweet from the so-called 'Proud Salopians' group has only garnered something like 70 likes and a handful of comments. Although by today's increasingly low standards this is enough to justify a story in the local paper it seems.
The overwhelming majority of fans don't use their football club as a vehicle for political lobbying or to reflect their own leanings so I'd expect 'most' don't care. And those that do weirdly care don't see the hypocrisy in supporting England at the World Cup there later this year.
What a funny world.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 15:05:48 GMT 1
Time travel is not an option. Especially not backwards. Ask Professor Brian Cox. why would i need to ask him ? the evidence is here for all of us to see that time travel will never be possible i was just hinting again that it's another case of our laws our fine , let's be shocked at someone else's the universe is about 14 billions years old , so what if a few places are a just lagging fractionally behind our stance , and who's to say we are even correct ? i wonder how mother nature would side on the matter if such a thing were possible my stance is simply when in Rome.... if you don't take that stance you could start digging deeper and end up boycotting everything Yeah, well, that was a joke but ..... Mother Nature is indifferent, so we don't consult her on moral questions. If we did we wouldn't care tuppence about any of our fellow beings because Nature and the universe certainly don't. Yes, our laws on LGBT and human rights are fine, relative to the likes of Qatar and Saudi, for now. But humanity progresses. Perhaps you don't think we've progressed beyond the level of the petro-states in this regard, in which case we have a different argument. But I say we have. It's not a question of being shocked at someone else's laws. It's hardly shocking when we already know, is it? But when we transact with those countries, through football or anything else, I don't think we should simply accept that difference with a "when in Rome" attitude. If all we ever do is say "who are we to judge?" and accept anything and everything because, well, it's Rome not Shrewsbury, then we're essentially saying any notions of morality are less important than tolerating people doing whatever they like, regardless of how that affects others. As I said before, there are contradictions and inconsistencies everywhere and in everyone. That's inevitable, but it doesn't mean we just shouldn't bother, or that everything has to be perfect now or else it's not worth trying.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 15:07:38 GMT 1
Fair enough. How about a friendly against Spartak Moscow? Would you draw the line there? Please see above.
"Qatar, like a lot of places, including, as of last week, the US, have things going on that many people don't like. But they haven't recently trampled all over a sovereign country, committed war crimes, killed another countries civilions, threatened a World War, flattened whole cities, blocked food exports plunging other countries into food poverty, been slow to allow humaitarian efforts to evacuate war torn areas, etc".
So, for you Spartak Moscow's a no but Qatar SC's a yes. Got it. Just trying to see where that poster was drawing their line.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2022 15:32:24 GMT 1
I've no doubt that there was concern upstairs that this game v Qatar SC could become a talking point I could be wrong but I personally would be amazed if the club gave any thought to any potential backlash, even after the decision from Watford to postpone their game. My view of the powers that be is they have a smalltime & dated view of running a football club and some of their decisions/PR have been naive (at best) over the years, so the thought that a Shrewsbury Town friendly in Beniform could offend some people probably hadn't even crossed their mind.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 29, 2022 15:59:51 GMT 1
There are a lot of things that the UK Govt do that I don’t like. How can I boycott them please?
Can’t help thinking this is a storm in a teacup. It’s not an official game, doubt we’ll know the result unless the club choose to report it.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 29, 2022 16:12:47 GMT 1
why would i need to ask him ? the evidence is here for all of us to see that time travel will never be possible i was just hinting again that it's another case of our laws our fine , let's be shocked at someone else's the universe is about 14 billions years old , so what if a few places are a just lagging fractionally behind our stance , and who's to say we are even correct ? i wonder how mother nature would side on the matter if such a thing were possible my stance is simply when in Rome.... if you don't take that stance you could start digging deeper and end up boycotting everything Yeah, well, that was a joke but ..... Mother Nature is indifferent, so we don't consult her on moral questions. If we did we wouldn't care tuppence about any of our fellow beings because Nature and the universe certainly don't. Yes, our laws on LGBT and human rights are fine, relative to the likes of Qatar and Saudi, for now. But humanity progresses. Perhaps you don't think we've progressed beyond the level of the petro-states in this regard, in which case we have a different argument. But I say we have. It's not a question of being shocked at someone else's laws. It's hardly shocking when we already know, is it? But when we transact with those countries, through football or anything else, I don't think we should simply accept that difference with a "when in Rome" attitude. If all we ever do is say "who are we to judge?" and accept anything and everything because, well, it's Rome not Shrewsbury, then we're essentially saying any notions of morality are less important than tolerating people doing whatever they like, regardless of how that affects others. As I said before, there are contradictions and inconsistencies everywhere and in everyone. That's inevitable, but it doesn't mean we just shouldn't bother, or that everything has to be perfect now or else it's not worth trying. the fixture was announced almost a week ago, no one said boo until they saw the Watford story, and as an afterthought realised they should be seen to be complaining too this whole World Cup is the result of corruption, the construction has been a shambles, the hotels, business's, Fifa are all going to rip fans off and the police will treat them like animals, Qatars laws are still behind the majority of the rest of the world, and yet will I be on my own when I'm out having a beer watching and enjoying it ?
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Post by bizzylad on Jun 29, 2022 16:22:53 GMT 1
There are a lot of things that the UK Govt do that I don’t like. How can I boycott them please? Can’t help thinking this is a storm in a teacup. It’s not an official game, doubt we’ll know the result unless the club choose to report it. utter storm in a teacup agreed , its open to the public though , me and few other Salop fans travelling over .. Game is 100 % ON and Salop are wearing rainbow armbands in support of the LGBT communituy ..
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Post by block12massive on Jun 29, 2022 16:33:42 GMT 1
There are a lot of things that the UK Govt do that I don’t like. How can I boycott them please? Can’t help thinking this is a storm in a teacup. It’s not an official game, doubt we’ll know the result unless the club choose to report it. utter storm in a teacup agreed , its open to the public though , me and few other Salop fans travelling over .. Game is 100 % ON and Salop are wearing rainbow armbands in support of the LGBT communituy .. That'll show 'em... But good to see common sense prevailing here. No doubt 'Proud Salopians' will consider this a victory when in reality all they've done is pressure the club into making the quickest and most convenient pointless gesture available. Virtue signal well and truly received.
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Post by horse01 on Jun 29, 2022 17:06:22 GMT 1
Dialogue, compromise and the game goes ahead.
Shrewsbury Town FC is aware of the concerns regarding playing a pre-season training match with Qatar SC at a hotel pitch in Spain.
Through our continuous open dialogue with Proud Salopians, our LGBTQ+ Supporters group, we have discussed the training game and for this match our captain will be wearing the Rainbow Laces captain's armband to show solidarity with our LGBTQ+ community. The Club will also continue our dialogue with Proud Salopians and other members of our Salop For All group on this subject.
There is no place in society for any form of discrimination and Shrewsbury Town FC is an inclusive/community and family club who work very closely with all of our supporters to be inclusive of the nine protected characteristics of equality.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jun 29, 2022 18:04:46 GMT 1
Can't see it being the end of it if the MSM pick it up.
Doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'm not going and not going Qatar.
However after Watford pulling out the MSM will be swooping around this story.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 29, 2022 18:27:39 GMT 1
I trust we’ll be wearing our pink away kit?
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Post by bizzylad on Jun 29, 2022 19:04:43 GMT 1
Can't see it being the end of it if the MSM pick it up. Doesn't bother me in the slightest, I'm not going and not going Qatar. However after Watford pulling out the MSM will be swooping around this story. Its a non story , Shropshire Star put it on twitter and its hardly raised a whimper , Watford are much higher profile and also they were playing the Qatari National side , we are playing a club side in a insigficant friendly at a hotel in Benidorm . Two totally different situations
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 19:12:15 GMT 1
Yeah, well, that was a joke but ..... Mother Nature is indifferent, so we don't consult her on moral questions. If we did we wouldn't care tuppence about any of our fellow beings because Nature and the universe certainly don't. Yes, our laws on LGBT and human rights are fine, relative to the likes of Qatar and Saudi, for now. But humanity progresses. Perhaps you don't think we've progressed beyond the level of the petro-states in this regard, in which case we have a different argument. But I say we have. It's not a question of being shocked at someone else's laws. It's hardly shocking when we already know, is it? But when we transact with those countries, through football or anything else, I don't think we should simply accept that difference with a "when in Rome" attitude. If all we ever do is say "who are we to judge?" and accept anything and everything because, well, it's Rome not Shrewsbury, then we're essentially saying any notions of morality are less important than tolerating people doing whatever they like, regardless of how that affects others. As I said before, there are contradictions and inconsistencies everywhere and in everyone. That's inevitable, but it doesn't mean we just shouldn't bother, or that everything has to be perfect now or else it's not worth trying. the fixture was announced almost a week ago, no one said boo until they saw the Watford story, and as an afterthought realised they should be seen to be complaining too this whole World Cup is the result of corruption, the construction has been a shambles, the hotels, business's, Fifa are all going to rip fans off and the police will treat them like animals, Qatars laws are still behind the majority of the rest of the world, and yet will I be on my own when I'm out having a beer watching and enjoying it ? Your first paragraph is wrong. Proud Salopians say they approached the club about this on Friday, which was the day the club announced the fixture. Your dismissive tone towards their stance is unfortunate, to say the least. Are you really suggesting their reaction is an afterthought because they saw the Watford story?
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Post by shroppygold on Jun 29, 2022 19:30:09 GMT 1
Don’t see the problem with the game. It’s a club in Qatar it’s behind closed doors in Spain. Get a grip
Bet the same people who are calling for this game to be called off cause they are upset wear adidas eat at McDonald’s. Seem to forget that being gay was illegal not long ago.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 29, 2022 20:00:04 GMT 1
There are a lot of things that the UK Govt do that I don’t like. How can I boycott them please? Can’t help thinking this is a storm in a teacup. It’s not an official game, doubt we’ll know the result unless the club choose to report it. utter storm in a teacup agreed , its open to the public though , me and few other Salop fans travelling over .. Game is 100 % ON and Salop are wearing rainbow armbands in support of the LGBT communituy .. That is exactly as it should be. Well done Town.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 29, 2022 20:00:32 GMT 1
the fixture was announced almost a week ago, no one said boo until they saw the Watford story, and as an afterthought realised they should be seen to be complaining too this whole World Cup is the result of corruption, the construction has been a shambles, the hotels, business's, Fifa are all going to rip fans off and the police will treat them like animals, Qatars laws are still behind the majority of the rest of the world, and yet will I be on my own when I'm out having a beer watching and enjoying it ? Your first paragraph is wrong. Proud Salopians say they approached the club about this on Friday, which was the day the club announced the fixture. Your dismissive tone towards their stance is unfortunate, to say the least. Are you really suggesting their reaction is an afterthought because they saw the Watford story? if that's the case its different but I wasn't to know that, I've based it on the thread announcing the game and their post on twitter. what I don't get it they don't like the rainbow washing stuff but maybe the club are confused as the rainbow is everywhere, its even taken over the club badge , I've got nothing against them , I just think they should move on and accept other countries laws, its being played in Spain for starters so the issue won't even arise. like I said if we start digging then were there any complaints when we played Galatasaray ? they have some different laws to us concerning the same sex relationships, and the legal age for consent for anyone there is 18
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 20:17:29 GMT 1
Your first paragraph is wrong. Proud Salopians say they approached the club about this on Friday, which was the day the club announced the fixture. Your dismissive tone towards their stance is unfortunate, to say the least. Are you really suggesting their reaction is an afterthought because they saw the Watford story? if that's the case its different but I wasn't to know that, I've based it on the thread announcing the game and their post on twitter. what I don't get it they don't like the rainbow washing stuff but maybe the club are confused as the rainbow is everywhere, its even taken over the club badge , I've got nothing against them , I just think they should move on and accept other countries laws, its being played in Spain for starters so the issue won't even arise. like I said if we start digging then were there any complaints when we played Galatasaray ? they have some different laws to us concerning the same sex relationships, and the legal age for consent for anyone there is 18 It's not a crime to miss something but I found out they'd responded to the club on Friday on that same Twitter thread you mention. Somebody asked the question (obviously not you!) and they replied. Not sure what might be confusing the club, it's a pretty straightforward issue, whichever side of the argument you're on. Do you really believe we should just accept other countries' laws? Germany didn't do anything illegal in WW2 according to its own laws at the time. Russia is doing nothing illegal in Ukraine as far as it's concerned. I interpret "when in Rome" along the lines of drink what the locals drink, not turn a blind eye to anything its government is doing. The fact the game's being played in Spain doesn't really change anything. Digging into the past is irrelevant - we're in the here and now. But, for what its worth, while Turkey certainly isn't as socially liberal as the western world it's not a crime to be gay there, unlike Qatar.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Jun 29, 2022 20:26:06 GMT 1
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 20:29:50 GMT 1
utter storm in a teacup agreed , its open to the public though , me and few other Salop fans travelling over .. Game is 100 % ON and Salop are wearing rainbow armbands in support of the LGBT communituy .. That is exactly as it should be. Well done Town. I think it's unfortunate the club has chosen to play a Qatari opponent and it wouldn't change my view if we wore a full rainbow kit. I'm glad the club has at least acknowledged the issue and is making a gesture but can't feel any congratulations are due. It might be a teacup but it's hardly a storm. We're a small club, they're a small club and it's a meaningless friendly, so the world won't notice and I'm no more than disappointed. If people want to watch then fine, that's not an issue for me.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 29, 2022 20:31:37 GMT 1
That's an excellent statement. Well done Proud Salopians, you've handled this superbly.
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