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Post by davycrockett on Jun 23, 2022 10:29:47 GMT 1
I think pensioners getting an inflation level pay rise is a disgrace, I really do. They're already getting an extra £300 next winter on top of that as well. Pensioners by default are some of the wealthiest groups of people in the country, I haven't met a single one yet who chooses between heating or eating, I don't know where they find them? Most have been mortgage free for the best part of 20 years before they even retired, again most are on final salary and other extremely preferential pensions. I believe RMT wanted an inflation pay rise, granted when they said that it might have been maybe 9-10%. They've already been told they can have a good pay rise, but they need to accept modernisation and unfortunately some job losses. Then again, I bet there's thousands of 60+ railway workers who'd gladly take voluntary redundancy so how many genuine job losses would there really end up being? If anyone needed confirmation that envy forms the very bedrock of socialist "thought" this little contribution says it all....! And he’s on your side….. one of his few posts where he hasn’t mentioned ‘left’ like it’s something you’ve stepped in 😂
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Post by armchairfan on Jun 23, 2022 10:31:48 GMT 1
so yes, insofar as the common issue is the increase in the rate of inflation, the matters are related, Thank you. No apology necessary 👍 Nothing quite beats a selective quote, does it! Is that the best you can do....? I expected better!
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 23, 2022 10:43:04 GMT 1
I think pensioners getting an inflation level pay rise is a disgrace, I really do. They're already getting an extra £300 next winter on top of that as well. Pensioners by default are some of the wealthiest groups of people in the country, I haven't met a single one yet who chooses between heating or eating, I don't know where they find them? Most have been mortgage free for the best part of 20 years before they even retired, again most are on final salary and other extremely preferential pensions. I believe RMT wanted an inflation pay rise, granted when they said that it might have been maybe 9-10%. They've already been told they can have a good pay rise, but they need to accept modernisation and unfortunately some job losses. Then again, I bet there's thousands of 60+ railway workers who'd gladly take voluntary redundancy so how many genuine job losses would there really end up being? If anyone needed confirmation that envy forms the very bedrock of socialist "thought" this little contribution says it all....! I'm about as far away from being a socialist as you can get.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2022 10:45:52 GMT 1
Please note that although you can't compare apples with pears when making calculations, nevertheless the UK state pension is widely regarded as one of the worst in Europe.
The state pension in the UK is one of the lowest in Western Europe. Comparisons are problematic, since pensions in other countries have varying contribution rates, but by most measures we lag significantly behind Germany, Italy, France and Spain.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 23, 2022 10:54:53 GMT 1
Please note that although you can't compare apples with pears when making calculations, nevertheless the UK state pension is widely regarded as one of the worst in Europe. Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ...
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 23, 2022 11:11:14 GMT 1
Please note that although you can't compare apples with pears when making calculations, nevertheless the UK state pension is widely regarded as one of the worst in Europe. Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ... Extra dosh they can pick up headlining Glastonbery.....
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2022 11:12:53 GMT 1
Please note that although you can't compare apples with pears when making calculations, nevertheless the UK state pension is widely regarded as one of the worst in Europe. Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ... The £600 one off payment is only available to everyone on means tested benefits. The £140 extra warm home discount is for persons on means tested benefits or very low income. NHS is free at the point of entry to everyone. The £150 rebate for council tax is given to everyone in council tax bands A to D. Prescriptions are free to everyone in Wales and Scotland already.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 23, 2022 11:13:45 GMT 1
If anyone needed confirmation that envy forms the very bedrock of socialist "thought" this little contribution says it all....! And he’s on your side….. one of his few posts where he hasn’t mentioned ‘left’ like it’s something you’ve stepped in 😂 Sums up armchair's confused world view though doesn't it? Supports cutting benefits for other people but when it's his generation winning, any criticism (however valid) is "envy". I thought the "politics of envy" trope was supposed to be tied in to " don't criticise billionaires, they're just people who've worked harder than you"? Presumably those bemoaning other benefits claimants are also partaking in the "politics of envy" too, are they? Somehow doubt armchair sees it that way.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 23, 2022 11:15:40 GMT 1
Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ... The £600 one off payment is only available to everyone on means tested benefits. The £140 extra warm home discount is for persons on means tested benefits or very low income. NHS is free at the point of entry to everyone. The £150 rebate for council tax is given to everyone in council tax bands A to D. Prescriptions are free to everyone in Wales and Scotland already. There you go then, you've just proven your point. Compare to Europe with no rebates, no winter fuel, no NHS and I bet you're very well off. Anyway, back to rail strikes.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 23, 2022 11:26:09 GMT 1
Please note that although you can't compare apples with pears when making calculations, nevertheless the UK state pension is widely regarded as one of the worst in Europe. Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ... That socialist envy is showing again....
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2022 11:30:01 GMT 1
O.k. Back to the rail strikes:
Rail union leaders have hailed a 7.1% pay deal for Merseyrail staff, which was struck without government involvement, as evidence that it is ministers who are blocking a deal in the national dispute.
The Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association (TSSA) announced that its members at Merseyrail have accepted the 7.1% pay offer. The RMT, which was also involved in the Merseyrail negotiations said it plans to put the offer to its members.
The RMT’s general secretary, Mick Lynch, said the deal was an example of what can be achieved when ministers are not involved.
Speaking to BBC Breakfast he said: “The importance of that is the DFT (Department for Transport) and the Treasury are not pulling the strings in that negotiation.”
He added: “That’s also the situation in other companies such as Transport for Wales, which is outside the DFTs control and Scotrail where we’re going to get proposals on pay which are far superior to what [the transport secretary] Grant Shapps will allow to happen.”
“Where Grant Shapps has no influence on this railway we are getting deals and getting offers that are likely to be more progressive than the ones we’re getting from Westminster.”
Lynch added: “We need a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies and when we get that we can move on positively to the other agenda items, which includes changes to working practices, and the adoption of new technology.”
“It is the government in the form of Grant Shapps and the Treasury that are stopping those ideas coming forward. If we were dealing with the companies of their own volition ... I think we would have had a deal on these issues quite a long time ago.”
Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s Today Eddie Dempsey, assistant general secretary of the RMT, said: “Wherever we’re dealing with somebody who’s not directly controlled by the DFT, we’re making progress: London Underground 8.5%; Docklands Light Railway we’ve got an inflation busting deal; Crossrail, same thing, Transport for Wales we’re in the business of negotiating something there now. Merseyrail 7.1%.”
But Tim Shoveller, Network Rail’s chief negotiator, suggested it would be too expensive to offer a 7.1% pay increase to settle the national dispute.
Speaking to the Today programme ahead of further talks today, Shoveller said: “We currently have an offer that totals 3% on the table and we’re keen to improve on that. But that’s subject to affordability.
“The difference between the 3% on the table now and a 7.1% is £65m every year just for the groups that are on strike today.”
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 23, 2022 11:55:58 GMT 1
Depends what else you factor in. Your £600 one off, £140 extra warm home discount, NHS, subsidised council tax, free prescriptions ... That socialist envy is showing again.... lol
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 23, 2022 12:11:28 GMT 1
Unrelated?? Highest rate of inflation in twenty years and a thread talking about pay rises, pensions and the economy all unrelated?? Ho hum indeed! To the best of my knowledge, pensions are not negotiated by any Trades Union, neither are we pensioners taking damaging industrial (in)action when our demands are not met, so yes, insofar as the common issue is the increase in the rate of inflation, the matters are related, but in no way settled in the same way. So despite the lack of a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government have awarded an inflation increase just like that......
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 23, 2022 12:19:20 GMT 1
The £600 one off payment is only available to everyone on means tested benefits. The £140 extra warm home discount is for persons on means tested benefits or very low income. NHS is free at the point of entry to everyone. The £150 rebate for council tax is given to everyone in council tax bands A to D. Prescriptions are free to everyone in Wales and Scotland already. There you go then, you've just proven your point. Compare to Europe with no rebates, no winter fuel, no NHS and I bet you're very well off. Anyway, back to rail strikes. Does Europe not have those things?
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 23, 2022 12:33:39 GMT 1
There you go then, you've just proven your point. Compare to Europe with no rebates, no winter fuel, no NHS and I bet you're very well off. Anyway, back to rail strikes. Does Europe not have those things? They won't be needing a winter fuel allowance - they won't have any winter fuel when Putin turns of the gas. Brrrr it's going to be cold old winter for them, waiting for the liquified gas shipments to be processed.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 23, 2022 12:41:51 GMT 1
If anyone needed confirmation that envy forms the very bedrock of socialist "thought" this little contribution says it all....! I'm about as far away from being a socialist as you can get. UKIP ?
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 23, 2022 12:43:19 GMT 1
There you go then, you've just proven your point. Compare to Europe with no rebates, no winter fuel, no NHS and I bet you're very well off. Anyway, back to rail strikes. Does Europe not have those things? Certainly tops us with free healthcare.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 24, 2022 7:09:40 GMT 1
Does Europe not have those things? Certainly tops us with free healthcare. 2014
2021
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 24, 2022 8:28:16 GMT 1
To the best of my knowledge, pensions are not negotiated by any Trades Union, neither are we pensioners taking damaging industrial (in)action when our demands are not met, so yes, insofar as the common issue is the increase in the rate of inflation, the matters are related, but in no way settled in the same way. So despite the lack of a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government have awarded an inflation increase just like that...... No, because pensioners don't have a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government suspended one element of the triple lock, so, this April, pensioners only got 3.1% when the triple lock would have given them around 6%. Now the clamour from some is to suspend the triple lock again this year, just like that....
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 24, 2022 10:37:50 GMT 1
So despite the lack of a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government have awarded an inflation increase just like that...... No, because pensioners don't have a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government suspended one element of the triple lock, so, this April, pensioners only got 3.1% when the triple lock would have given them around 6%. Now the clamour from some is to suspend the triple lock again this year, just like that.... Personally I'm fine with the triple lock provided other people on the public payroll get the same treatment. The reason people are crying foul is the contrast between a largely tory voting group enjoying a ten percent raise whilst UC claimants (a benefit just like state pension is) were denied holding on to three uplift and key workers like NHS staff are being told to make do with 2 or 3%.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 24, 2022 10:48:41 GMT 1
No, because pensioners don't have a union demanding an increase, or any prospect of a damaging action on the country, the government suspended one element of the triple lock, so, this April, pensioners only got 3.1% when the triple lock would have given them around 6%. Now the clamour from some is to suspend the triple lock again this year, just like that.... Personally I'm fine with the triple lock provided other people on the public payroll get the same treatment. The reason people are crying foul is the contrast between a largely tory voting group enjoying a ten percent raise whilst UC claimants (a benefit just like state pension is) were denied holding on to three uplift and key workers like NHS staff are being told to make do with 2 or 3%. ‘The law refers to the state pension as a benefit and has done since the war. As research shows, it drives pensioners up the wall if you talk about claiming a benefit rather than the state pension. Absolutely rightly, it is yours by right, you have paid your national insurance contributions' (for the required number of years - to build up the pension you have earned).
The government love it when one group of workers cry foul against another group of workers (or ex workers) - we are all in this together, workers need to support pensions now because in a few short years they will be pensioners themselves - they are paying for their future pension right now! Make sure it goes up in line with the triple lock so it is not worthless when you get there.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 25, 2022 21:13:37 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 25, 2022 22:13:13 GMT 1
Have they no shame? Obviously not.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 25, 2022 22:16:32 GMT 1
49% will upset those with OCD too, I mean just give him 50%
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 26, 2022 10:04:01 GMT 1
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