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Post by Pilch on Jun 21, 2022 19:10:54 GMT 1
lets not forget how much the gov got criticised on here recently for ... well attempting to modernise the railway blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/102202/hs2the current workers don't want progress either in my 19-20 years on the railway I lost my job 4 times due to modernisation and have to take an alternative Come on,let's be fair here.As one former railway employee to another. As you stated you "lost your job four times". You weren't made redundant,you where " displaced" and the railway did everything they could to help you find another job on the railway. my point was that improvements usually coincide with job losses, whilst the first 3 times I found another post there were also those that didn't , which then happened to me 4th time as I wasn't prepared to travel to Milton Keynes every day
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:15:58 GMT 1
I agree with the sentiment of not throwing cash at everything, a minimum wage rise to £15 would be economic disaster. I think some tax cuts will come soon, I can imagine some things are being cooked up behind the scenes. So tax cuts isn’t throwing money at something? Our money as tax payers? The treasury would just recoup less tax receipts, surely?
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:20:29 GMT 1
No 10 defends giving above-inflation rise to pensioners but not to public sector workers. At the Downing Street lobby briefing the prime minister’s spokesperson was asked to explain why the government was opposing above-inflation pay rises for public sector workers, on the grounds they would be inflationary, while approving an above-inflation increase in the value of the state pension for next year. The spokesperson said the government thought the pension increase would not be inflationary. Referring to public sector pay, he said: The view is that if we were to chase inflation in this way, by matching all demands on public sector pay, some of which would involve matching inflation and adding additional on top of that, that would be inflationary, and that’s what in the long term would actually make people feel like they had less money going forward. Asked why raising the value of the state pension for 2023-24 by more than the likely rate of inflation for that year was not inflationary, he replied: The chancellor needs to consider it all in the round and the view is that we can meet that commitment without stoking those inflationary pressures. But we did take difficult decisions with regards to the triple lock, a temporary one-year suspension. The Guardian. Work that one out! The real reason is that pensioners are more like to vote Tory than public sector workers.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:28:55 GMT 1
Come on,let's be fair here.As one former railway employee to another. As you stated you "lost your job four times". You weren't made redundant,you where " displaced" and the railway did everything they could to help you find another job on the railway. my point was that improvements usually coincide with job losses, whilst the first 3 times I found another post there were also those that didn't , which then happened to me 4th time as I wasn't prepared to travel to Milton Keynes every day Of course they do, that's how progress and new technology works. Everyone who worked on the railway back in the day knew that they had a contract of employment that people in the private sector would die for. I've genuinely forgotten, but how long were people displaced for before they were actually made redundant. P.S Like you I ended up walking away with a redundancy payment as my TOC, Birmingham based Inter City Cross Country was bought by Virgin Trains who already owned Birmingham based West Coast,hence job duplication. Quite happy to voluntary to go and take a £20k pay off
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Post by Pilch on Jun 21, 2022 19:42:48 GMT 1
my point was that improvements usually coincide with job losses, whilst the first 3 times I found another post there were also those that didn't , which then happened to me 4th time as I wasn't prepared to travel to Milton Keynes every day Of course they do, that's how progress and new technology works. Everyone who worked on the railway back in the day knew that they had a contract of employment that people in the private sector would die for. I've genuinely forgotten, but how long were people displaced for before they were actually made redundant. P.S Like you I ended up walking away with a redundancy payment as my TOC, Birmingham based Inter City Cross Country was bought by Virgin Trains who already owned Birmingham based West Coast,hence job duplication. Quite happy to voluntary to go and take a £20k pay off when I came out of signalling I demanded office experience but they advised me against it as I only had 3 months to secure myself a job, I went for it anyway and quickly found me a job when they realised I was going to save them well over 100k in less than a year . When I left I asked for a reference for the software I had written and was declined by the then miserable boss, So I included a script to stop it working on 1st jan the following year. I got a phone call on jan 2nd ;-)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2022 19:48:18 GMT 1
So tax cuts isn’t throwing money at something? Our money as tax payers? The treasury would just recoup less tax receipts, surely? £15/hr minimum wage the treasury will be forking out less in benefits and bringing in more in taxes surely?
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:49:20 GMT 1
Of course they do, that's how progress and new technology works. Everyone who worked on the railway back in the day knew that they had a contract of employment that people in the private sector would die for. I've genuinely forgotten, but how long were people displaced for before they were actually made redundant. P.S Like you I ended up walking away with a redundancy payment as my TOC, Birmingham based Inter City Cross Country was bought by Virgin Trains who already owned Birmingham based West Coast,hence job duplication. Quite happy to voluntary to go and take a £20k pay off when I came out of signalling I demanded office experience but they advised me against it as I only had 3 months to secure myself a job, I went for it anyway and quickly found me a job when they realised I was going to save them well over 100k in less than a year . When I left I asked for a reference for the software I had written and was declined by the then miserable boss, So I included a script to stop it working on 1st jan the following year. I got a phone call on jan 2nd ;-) Nice one !...did you return or did you get an additional pay off, or the reference you wanted ?
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:57:44 GMT 1
The treasury would just recoup less tax receipts, surely? £15/hr minimum wage the treasury will be forking out less in benefits and bringing in more in taxes surely? And bankrupt every small business in the process? I can almost guarantee every pub, restaurant etc would close or a pint would be £6 to cover things; you're just hammering everything up. You can't just throw money at everything and hope it fixes itself. An income tax threshold increase to £14,000 and a 1% drop in VAT would likely be effective enough for now without bankrupting small businesses.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 21, 2022 19:58:12 GMT 1
Of course they do, that's how progress and new technology works. Everyone who worked on the railway back in the day knew that they had a contract of employment that people in the private sector would die for. I've genuinely forgotten, but how long were people displaced for before they were actually made redundant. P.S Like you I ended up walking away with a redundancy payment as my TOC, Birmingham based Inter City Cross Country was bought by Virgin Trains who already owned Birmingham based West Coast,hence job duplication. Quite happy to voluntary to go and take a £20k pay off when I came out of signalling I demanded office experience but they advised me against it as I only had 3 months to secure myself a job, I went for it anyway and quickly found me a job when they realised I was going to save them well over 100k in less than a year . When I left I asked for a reference for the software I had written and was declined by the then miserable boss, So I included a script to stop it working on 1st jan the following year. I got a phone call on jan 2nd ;-) I love stories like that, some places don't know what they have until it's gone.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 21, 2022 21:47:00 GMT 1
when I came out of signalling I demanded office experience but they advised me against it as I only had 3 months to secure myself a job, I went for it anyway and quickly found me a job when they realised I was going to save them well over 100k in less than a year . When I left I asked for a reference for the software I had written and was declined by the then miserable boss, So I included a script to stop it working on 1st jan the following year. I got a phone call on jan 2nd ;-) Nice one !...did you return or did you get an additional pay off, or the reference you wanted ? No, my boss at the time I'd never had a problem with but he was also being displaced and couldn't give a s**t basically. I've recently written a script on excel that would save Royal Mail an amazing amount of money. So far they have been too busy to take me up on it you can't make it up sometimes
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 21, 2022 22:57:40 GMT 1
lets not forget how much the gov got criticised on here recently for ... well attempting to modernise the railway blueandamber.proboards.com/thread/102202/hs2the current workers don't want progress either in my 19-20 years on the railway I lost my job 4 times due to modernisation and have to take an alternative Come on,let's be fair here.As one former railway employee to another. As you stated you "lost your job four times". You weren't made redundant,you where " displaced" and the railway did everything they could to help you find another job on the railway. One of the key things the strike is about: No compulsory redundancies.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 22, 2022 5:49:45 GMT 1
Pilch, I see that there is a ballot on strike action at the Royal Mail in the coming weeks. Will you be voting for or against it?
Personally I think that 2% is a pretty derisory offer when inflation is currently running at around 10% and RMs domestic profits in 2021/22 were up by over 20% to £416m.
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Post by Pilch on Jun 22, 2022 7:37:05 GMT 1
Pilch, I see that there is a ballot on strike action at the Royal Mail in the coming weeks. Will you be voting for or against it? Personally I think that 2% is a pretty derisory offer when inflation is currently running at around 10% and RMs domestic profits in 2021/22 were up by over 20% to £416m. not to mention removing a payment we get for door to doors of over £20 a week , ( that's the likes of pizza hut flyers ) works out at well under minimum wage for the time they take to prepare so just over £100 quid a month pay cut really i won't bother voting , our union don't even know how to call a strike , they are still old school and in it for themselves so pointless and what's the point of striking when you come in the day after and find 2 days work in front of you ? the company would probably save money unless we went out for a week or more
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 22, 2022 8:35:23 GMT 1
Pilch, I see that there is a ballot on strike action at the Royal Mail in the coming weeks. Will you be voting for or against it? Personally I think that 2% is a pretty derisory offer when inflation is currently running at around 10% and RMs domestic profits in 2021/22 were up by over 20% to £416m. not to mention removing a payment we get for door to doors of over £20 a week , ( that's the likes of pizza hut flyers ) works out at well under minimum wage for the time they take to prepare so just over £100 quid a month pay cut really i won't bother voting , our union don't even know how to call a strike , they are still old school and in it for themselves so pointless and what's the point of striking when you come in the day after and find 2 days work in front of you ? the company would probably save money unless we went out for a week or more Hang on. You're getting what amounts to a £100 a month pay cut and you're just going to sit on your 'arris and let your employers get away with it? Once it's gone it's gone forever and if you refuse to stand up now your bosses will know that they can get away with more cuts next year and the year after and the year after that. How long and hard do they need to beat you down until you actually decide to say no more? It isn't or at least it shouldn't be a race to the bottom and it certainly shouldn't be one that you try to win. Sometimes I actually despair.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 22, 2022 8:53:08 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 22, 2022 8:57:57 GMT 1
They're definitely in it for themselves. Take a six figure salary pretending to care about your salary in the process, laughable.
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Post by block12massive on Jun 22, 2022 8:59:42 GMT 1
They're definitely in it for themselves. Take a six figure salary pretending to care about your salary in the process, laughable. They're always a certain 'type' as well aren't they. Not to mention lacking on the diversity front.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 22, 2022 9:03:01 GMT 1
The government focus on "greedy" unions wanting a pay rise anywhere near one that is not actually a pay cut when inflation is taken into account. They can present this to the public, including union members with a vote, as something that cannot be allowed to happen because it will feed further inflation. But what also seems to be happening is that employers are changing work practices, job security, etc. Cannot be allowed to happen, once gone, it's hire and fire on whatever terms they want. Our rights are being eroded left, right and centre.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 22, 2022 9:08:54 GMT 1
They're definitely in it for themselves. Take a six figure salary pretending to care about your salary in the process, laughable. Too many union members pay their dues, then never attend a meeting, never vote, never take any interest. It's the members union and they have to make it theirs.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Jun 22, 2022 9:46:21 GMT 1
The treasury would just recoup less tax receipts, surely? £15/hr minimum wage the treasury will be forking out less in benefits and bringing in more in taxes surely? Only if "certain" people get off their arris and go out to work ?
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Post by Pilch on Jun 22, 2022 9:58:04 GMT 1
not to mention removing a payment we get for door to doors of over £20 a week , ( that's the likes of pizza hut flyers ) works out at well under minimum wage for the time they take to prepare so just over £100 quid a month pay cut really i won't bother voting , our union don't even know how to call a strike , they are still old school and in it for themselves so pointless and what's the point of striking when you come in the day after and find 2 days work in front of you ? the company would probably save money unless we went out for a week or more Hang on. You're getting what amounts to a £100 a month pay cut and you're just going to sit on your 'arris and let your employers get away with it? Once it's gone it's gone forever and if you refuse to stand up now your bosses will know that they can get away with more cuts next year and the year after and the year after that. How long and hard do they need to beat you down until you actually decide to say no more? It isn't or at least it shouldn't be a race to the bottom and it certainly shouldn't be one that you try to win. Sometimes I actually despair. it's why 8 out of 10 postman leave within 2 weeks , the job is too much for them , sounds like you'd last about 3 hours 😜
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 22, 2022 10:05:36 GMT 1
£15/hr minimum wage the treasury will be forking out less in benefits and bringing in more in taxes surely? Only if "certain" people get off their arris and go out to work ? Classic left, put everyone on an inflated wage without realising they'd be millions unemployed because every small pub, cafe, restaurant and shop would almost immediately go out of business. We need to just stop throwing money at everything expecting it'll fix it. The railway, the NHS, the roads ... They need modernisation, innovative ideas AND money.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 22, 2022 10:57:58 GMT 1
..... in which a man living in the past accuses others of living in the past. . By the way, you're ignoring Johnson, Dorries and countless other Tory MPs when it comes to accusations of nepotism and cronyism, albeit theirs involved appropriating public money.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 13:51:34 GMT 1
Only if "certain" people get off their arris and go out to work ? Classic left, put everyone on an inflated wage without realising they'd be millions unemployed because every small pub, cafe, restaurant and shop would almost immediately go out of business. We need to just stop throwing money at everything expecting it'll fix it. The railway, the NHS, the roads ... They need modernisation, innovative ideas AND money. I do wonder how much more coffee and beer people would be able to afford if they were paid a fair wage. The country is heading into recession because employees can’t afford jack s**t right now.
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Post by armchairfan on Jun 22, 2022 14:01:59 GMT 1
I remain hopeful that this thread will stay focused on the issue at hand, rather than the wider issues of the economy in general, important though such matters certainly are.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 22, 2022 14:21:35 GMT 1
Hang on. You're getting what amounts to a £100 a month pay cut and you're just going to sit on your 'arris and let your employers get away with it? Once it's gone it's gone forever and if you refuse to stand up now your bosses will know that they can get away with more cuts next year and the year after and the year after that. How long and hard do they need to beat you down until you actually decide to say no more? It isn't or at least it shouldn't be a race to the bottom and it certainly shouldn't be one that you try to win. Sometimes I actually despair. it's why 8 out of 10 postman leave within 2 weeks , the job is too much for them , sounds like you'd last about 3 hours 😜 As far as I'm aware we have never actually met, yet you assume that I would not be capable of doing the job that you do. To be honest it doesn't really appeal to me in the midst of winter or on the odd really hot day we get, but I reckon most days I'd be able to manage. On the other hand I am pretty certain that you could not do my job without a great deal of training. Speaking of which our total pay rises this year are around 11% yet you seem happy to accept 2% on the basic pay for your job and cuts in certain other aspects of your job which add up to a £100 a month cut. Even worse is the fact that you think that those in the rail industry should be happy with the same.
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Post by shrewder on Jun 22, 2022 17:04:17 GMT 1
I honestly don't know what I think about this strike. With all sides giving different information about the realities of the situation , it seems a total dogs dinner of a situation.
All I do know as a fare paying passenger, it is flippin inconvenient and annoying after 2 years Of being restrained from travelling normally because of Covid.
As elderly and gradually becoming more and more limited as to where I can travel ,I just hope this is resolved soon so I can make the most of my twilight years.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jun 22, 2022 17:25:45 GMT 1
I dont know what was linked to the 3% pay rise or what the companies wont ,11% is very unrealistic but as mersey rail has agreed a 7.1% pay rise i cant imagine the unions will accept less from the rest of the rail companies. i do back the unions on retating conductors for safety reasons, if somthing is kicking off hte train driver cant do much about it. As a former nurse 3% pay rise would feel amazing but i know they are asking for over 5% www.health.org.uk/news-and-comment/charts-and-infographics/how-has-nhs-staff-pay-changed-over-the-past-decadein real terms from march 2011 to 2021 nurses were actual £1,583 worse off
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2022 17:49:41 GMT 1
I remain hopeful that this thread will stay focused on the issue at hand, rather than the wider issues of the economy in general, important though such matters certainly are. Well the opening post talks about pensions public sector pay inflation and state benefits so we’ve got a bit to work with beyond just the title of the thread!
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Post by armchairfan on Jun 22, 2022 17:54:04 GMT 1
I remain hopeful that this thread will stay focused on the issue at hand, rather than the wider issues of the economy in general, important though such matters certainly are. Well the opening post talks about pensions public sector pay inflation and state benefits so we’ve got a bit to work with beyond just the title of the thread! True, I suppose - it is what happens when several related but entirely separate issues are conflated in order to score political points....ho-hum
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