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Post by martinshrew on May 24, 2022 20:50:22 GMT 1
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Post by doctorproctor on May 24, 2022 21:00:52 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on May 24, 2022 21:13:11 GMT 1
First thught was this was a thread about one of those "posh" ice creams....
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Post by South Stand Salopian on May 24, 2022 21:30:48 GMT 1
I do think he’s a good appointment still, maybe he could grow with the club a bit more in a similar way to Klopp did at Liverpool. Took him 5 years to win the league from a similar position and got pipped by a point the season before so it could be done in a few seasons but I don’t expect it to happen to be honest.
Man United really do need to stick with a manager and back someone, aim for top 4 next season and build from there, and I think they have a good chance at that. The appointment of Ragnick was an utterly dumbfounding one when they were still favourites for the top 4.
Interesting to see who will win the league first Newcastle or Man United?
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on May 24, 2022 21:44:29 GMT 1
It's a serious rebuilding job for the entire club needed. The whole place isn't built for success anymore, from their stadium, chief exec, coaching, squad etc etc.
Ten Hag will get license to re build some of it, but how much buy in the wider management in the club have in him remains to be seen. Guardiola and Klopp have been so successful because the entire club have been built around them. United are a mess at the moment and suggesting they are 5 years off City and Liverpool I think is generous.
Be interesting to see what he can do with the squad because there are some players who are top of the league quality but they need a system around them. And more players who are of that quality or can be in 1-2 years. Top 3 within the next 2 years is as much can be hoped for and I think that would be a success.
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Post by Mortgagehound on May 24, 2022 21:44:47 GMT 1
This will end in tears…..
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 24, 2022 22:05:32 GMT 1
Be interesting to see what he can do with the squad because there are some players who are top of the league quality Which players? There’s very few who’d even make the subs bench of a full strength Man City squad. And by all accounts the dressing room is completely toxic, huge changes required.
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Post by venceremos on May 24, 2022 22:22:22 GMT 1
What claims? The Mail journalist, looking for clicks, said Ten Hag vowed to end City and Liverpool's dominance. He did nothing of the sort. He said every era comes to an end. Nobody sensible can argue that isn't the case. What's this Liverpool dominance of English football anyway? Klopp has been there for almost 7 years, in which time they've won one league title, one FA Cup and one League Cup (both cups being won this season). That's dominance? They're an exceptional team and Klopp's a great manager, I don't dispute that, but City dominate English football - 4 league titles, 1 FA Cup and 5 League Cups in the period Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool. I make that 10-3 in City's favour as far as dominating English football goes. Liverpool are a close second this season (not last), but it's City who have dominated English football for the last several seasons. I can understand United haters assuming Ten Hag will fail because United have got themselves in such a mess, but he's a good appointment. We'll see what happens from here. All this "at least five years behind" talk reminds me of how some people talked about politics. In 2015, Cameron was said to be a certain winner of the next two elections at least. In 2019, Johnson could be PM for as long as he wanted. It's forgotten already that United finished ahead of Liverpool last season. But... injuries .... yeah, they happen but results don't get adjusted for them. Predictions based largely on wishful thinking have a habit of unravelling quickly.
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Post by venceremos on May 24, 2022 22:22:51 GMT 1
Be interesting to see what he can do with the squad because there are some players who are top of the league quality Which players? There’s very few who’d even make the subs bench of a full strength Man City squad. And by all accounts the dressing room is completely toxic, huge changes required. Which is why Ten Hag is there .....
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Post by Pilch on May 24, 2022 22:25:52 GMT 1
First thught was this was a thread about one of those "posh" ice creams.... only just looked at this thread, I thought it was about another Norwegian player about to sign for someone until I read the link shows how much interest I take in the premier league I'm currently a Real Madrid fan, does Gareth Bale still play for them ?
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Post by martinshrew on May 24, 2022 23:32:30 GMT 1
I do think he’s a good appointment still, maybe he could grow with the club a bit more in a similar way to Klopp did at Liverpool. Took him 5 years to win the league from a similar position and got pipped by a point the season before so it could be done in a few seasons but I don’t expect it to happen to be honest. Man United really do need to stick with a manager and back someone, aim for top 4 next season and build from there, and I think they have a good chance at that. The appointment of Ragnick was an utterly dumbfounding one when they were still favourites for the top 4. Interesting to see who will win the league first Newcastle or Man United? I'm searching for odds on Newcastle to finish above them next year. I think the top 5 will be out on their own now. Then there could be a new pocket containing West Ham, Wolves, Man Utd & Newcastle fighting for 6th.
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Post by Valerioch on May 25, 2022 6:47:04 GMT 1
I do think he’s a good appointment still, maybe he could grow with the club a bit more in a similar way to Klopp did at Liverpool. Took him 5 years to win the league from a similar position and got pipped by a point the season before so it could be done in a few seasons but I don’t expect it to happen to be honest. Man United really do need to stick with a manager and back someone, aim for top 4 next season and build from there, and I think they have a good chance at that. The appointment of Ragnick was an utterly dumbfounding one when they were still favourites for the top 4. Interesting to see who will win the league first Newcastle or Man United? I'm searching for odds on Newcastle to finish above them next year. I think the top 5 will be out on their own now. Then there could be a new pocket containing West Ham, Wolves, Man Utd & Newcastle fighting for 6th. There’s a lot of unanswered questions for me that will make it interesting. I think Spurs will do very well if they back Conte, Arsenal less so, this felt like their big chance to get back in the CL. How will Chelsea go under new ownership? Wolves form since January had them 4th bottom in the form table, sounds like they will be losing Neves too, could equal big problems Surely Newcastle will spend very big and be challenging Arsenal and Co for 5th/6th?
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on May 25, 2022 8:45:31 GMT 1
Be interesting to see what he can do with the squad because there are some players who are top of the league quality Which players? There’s very few who’d even make the subs bench of a full strength Man City squad. And by all accounts the dressing room is completely toxic, huge changes required. Sancho, Bruno, Varane, De Gea all have been world class players at one point. And fair few others have shown on their day they could also definitely be first team/squad players - Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Rashford. There is a reason why they spent 80m on maguire, 50m on Fred etc. They just haven't been coached well and the club around them has been in disarray. Put that right and they could be heading in the right direction at least. Ten Hag will get money and has the benefit of 4/5 players naturally moving on and several others will be let go if there are takers. Ronaldo is still a big issue though. That signing showed so much in a club going in the wrong direction and now they are lumbered with him and basically he has to play
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 9:03:08 GMT 1
Which players? There’s very few who’d even make the subs bench of a full strength Man City squad. And by all accounts the dressing room is completely toxic, huge changes required. Sancho, Bruno, Varane, De Gea all have been world class players at one point. And fair few others have shown on their day they could also definitely be first team/squad players - Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Rashford. There is a reason why they spent 80m on maguire, 50m on Fred etc. They just haven't been coached well and the club around them has been in disarray. Put that right and they could be heading in the right direction at least. Ten Hag will get money and has the benefit of 4/5 players naturally moving on and several others will be let go if there are takers. Ronaldo is still a big issue though. That signing showed so much in a club going in the wrong direction and now they are lumbered with him and basically he has to play Lumbered with a guy who scored 18 league goals and was third top scorer in the league? Without him they'd have likely been bottom half.
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Post by block12massive on May 25, 2022 9:12:18 GMT 1
What claims? The Mail journalist, looking for clicks, said Ten Hag vowed to end City and Liverpool's dominance. He did nothing of the sort. He said every era comes to an end. Nobody sensible can argue that isn't the case. What's this Liverpool dominance of English football anyway? Klopp has been there for almost 7 years, in which time they've won one league title, one FA Cup and one League Cup (both cups being won this season). That's dominance? They're an exceptional team and Klopp's a great manager, I don't dispute that, but City dominate English football - 4 league titles, 1 FA Cup and 5 League Cups in the period Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool. I make that 10-3 in City's favour as far as dominating English football goes. Liverpool are a close second this season (not last), but it's City who dominate English football. I can understand United haters assuming Ten Hag will fail because United have got themselves in such a mess, but he's a good appointment. We'll see what happens from here. All this "at least five years behind" talk reminds me of how some people talked about politics. In 2015, Cameron was said to be a certain winner of the next two elections at least. In 2019, Johnson could be PM for as long as he wanted. It's forgotten already that United finished ahead of Liverpool last season. But... injuries .... yeah, they happen but results don't get adjusted for them. Predictions based largely on wishful thinking have a habit of unravelling quickly. Have to agree with this. Unquestionably there's work to be done for Ten Hag but the club is hardly in the grave disarray that people make out. As for the 'so called' Man City and Liverpool dominance, lets not forget Liverpool only scraped a Champions League place on the final day of last season. They are clearly the best two clubs in the country if not Europe right now but it's not a coincidence Guardiola and Klopp have been there the best part of 6/7 seasons. I doubt United will be competitive overnight but Ten Hag with McClaren as one of his assistants seems like a sound appointment for where the club is right now.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 25, 2022 9:26:52 GMT 1
Which players? There’s very few who’d even make the subs bench of a full strength Man City squad. And by all accounts the dressing room is completely toxic, huge changes required. Sancho, Bruno, Varane, De Gea all have been world class players at one point. And fair few others have shown on their day they could also definitely be first team/squad players - Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Rashford. There is a reason why they spent 80m on maguire, 50m on Fred etc. They just haven't been coached well and the club around them has been in disarray. Put that right and they could be heading in the right direction at least. Ten Hag will get money and has the benefit of 4/5 players naturally moving on and several others will be let go if there are takers. Ronaldo is still a big issue though. That signing showed so much in a club going in the wrong direction and now they are lumbered with him and basically he has to play Yeah there is a reason they spent 80m on Maguire and 50m on fred to be fair...... That reason is they are ****ing idiots
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 9:35:55 GMT 1
What claims? The Mail journalist, looking for clicks, said Ten Hag vowed to end City and Liverpool's dominance. He did nothing of the sort. He said every era comes to an end. Nobody sensible can argue that isn't the case. What's this Liverpool dominance of English football anyway? Klopp has been there for almost 7 years, in which time they've won one league title, one FA Cup and one League Cup (both cups being won this season). That's dominance? They're an exceptional team and Klopp's a great manager, I don't dispute that, but City dominate English football - 4 league titles, 1 FA Cup and 5 League Cups in the period Klopp has been in charge of Liverpool. I make that 10-3 in City's favour as far as dominating English football goes. Liverpool are a close second this season (not last), but it's City who dominate English football. I can understand United haters assuming Ten Hag will fail because United have got themselves in such a mess, but he's a good appointment. We'll see what happens from here. All this "at least five years behind" talk reminds me of how some people talked about politics. In 2015, Cameron was said to be a certain winner of the next two elections at least. In 2019, Johnson could be PM for as long as he wanted. It's forgotten already that United finished ahead of Liverpool last season. But... injuries .... yeah, they happen but results don't get adjusted for them. Predictions based largely on wishful thinking have a habit of unravelling quickly. One thing I will say I agree 100% about City, Pep said they're legends and they are, they're absolutely dominating English football. They don't get anywhere near the credit they deserve. Liverpool are a close second, but they're very much second to Man City domestically.
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 9:40:57 GMT 1
Sancho, Bruno, Varane, De Gea all have been world class players at one point. And fair few others have shown on their day they could also definitely be first team/squad players - Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Rashford. There is a reason why they spent 80m on maguire, 50m on Fred etc. They just haven't been coached well and the club around them has been in disarray. Put that right and they could be heading in the right direction at least. Ten Hag will get money and has the benefit of 4/5 players naturally moving on and several others will be let go if there are takers. Ronaldo is still a big issue though. That signing showed so much in a club going in the wrong direction and now they are lumbered with him and basically he has to play Yeah there is a reason they spent 80m on Maguire and 50m on fred to be fair...... That reason is they are ****ing idiots They're recruitment is awful. They just buy without prior planning, Sancho is a prime example. They wanted him, but where does he fit? You have to credit City & Liverpool, City's Fernandinho is 37, he's leaving. They'll now replace in CDM with a reasonably young CDM that will be researched. They're recruitment is well planned and targeted and if you look at cost, not ridiculous on fees based on their ages and quality. Dias - £63m (Maguire £80m) Haaland - £51m (Sancho £80m) Rodri - £60m (Fred 😂 £50m) I understand they're just a couple of examples, but it proves a point. Look at their ages also. Liverpool even more so at times when you look at what Robertson, Henderson, Milner etc cost.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on May 25, 2022 9:59:17 GMT 1
Yeah there is a reason they spent 80m on Maguire and 50m on fred to be fair...... That reason is they are ****ing idiots They're recruitment is awful. They just buy without prior planning, Sancho is a prime example. They wanted him, but where does he fit? You have to credit City & Liverpool, City's Fernandinho is 37, he's leaving. They'll now replace in CDM with a reasonably young CDM that will be researched. They're recruitment is well planned and targeted and if you look at cost, not ridiculous on fees based on their ages and quality. Dias - £63m (Maguire £80m) Haaland - £51m (Sancho £80m) Rodri - £60m (Fred 😂 £50m) I understand they're just a couple of examples, but it proves a point. Look at their ages also. Liverpool even more so at times when you look at what Robertson, Henderson, Milner etc cost. The thing is using your comparison, City at the time were rumoured to want all of them. Maybe not Sancho but that's because he had already been through their youth system but both Maguire and Fred could have ended up at City. The problem isn't necessarily the players - all of those three a few years down the line with Guardiola or Klopp would be first team players
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on May 25, 2022 10:01:54 GMT 1
Sancho, Bruno, Varane, De Gea all have been world class players at one point. And fair few others have shown on their day they could also definitely be first team/squad players - Shaw, Lindelof, Maguire, Fred, Rashford. There is a reason why they spent 80m on maguire, 50m on Fred etc. They just haven't been coached well and the club around them has been in disarray. Put that right and they could be heading in the right direction at least. Ten Hag will get money and has the benefit of 4/5 players naturally moving on and several others will be let go if there are takers. Ronaldo is still a big issue though. That signing showed so much in a club going in the wrong direction and now they are lumbered with him and basically he has to play Lumbered with a guy who scored 18 league goals and was third top scorer in the league? Without him they'd have likely been bottom half. He has inhibited several players and hindered the development of several others, and long term vision is impacted by having an immovable object up front that is expected to play every week. Yes he's a very prolific striker, but that is now all he does. You don't see city or liverpool with one of those and that's because he doesn't fit their system.
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 10:24:01 GMT 1
Lumbered with a guy who scored 18 league goals and was third top scorer in the league? Without him they'd have likely been bottom half. He has inhibited several players and hindered the development of several others, and long term vision is impacted by having an immovable object up front that is expected to play every week. Yes he's a very prolific striker, but that is now all he does. You don't see city or liverpool with one of those and that's because he doesn't fit their system. So you're telling me Rashford or Lingard would've got 18? More chance of plaiting p**s. Who else was there, 35 year old Cavani? He'd have got 12+ probably but he's 35.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on May 25, 2022 10:58:00 GMT 1
This man has got the easiest job in world football. Being paid a pretty penny and he's going to be given a lot of money to spend. Even if he underperforms next season the fans will give him time and the season after he could finish sixth/fifth and consider it progress. There's no way the current squad and investment to come means United should be out of the top four.
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Post by venceremos on May 25, 2022 11:41:38 GMT 1
Yeah there is a reason they spent 80m on Maguire and 50m on fred to be fair...... That reason is they are ****ing idiots They're recruitment is awful. They just buy without prior planning, Sancho is a prime example. They wanted him, but where does he fit? You have to credit City & Liverpool, City's Fernandinho is 37, he's leaving. They'll now replace in CDM with a reasonably young CDM that will be researched. They're recruitment is well planned and targeted and if you look at cost, not ridiculous on fees based on their ages and quality. Dias - £63m (Maguire £80m) Haaland - £51m (Sancho £80m) Rodri - £60m (Fred 😂 £50m) I understand they're just a couple of examples, but it proves a point. Look at their ages also. Liverpool even more so at times when you look at what Robertson, Henderson, Milner etc cost. Haaland is costing a lot more than £51m, and a lot more than Sancho. Transfer fees are only part of the story. Haaland's sell on clause was to allow him to leave before his contract ended and the relatively low level of it meant that he could get a huge signing on fee himself. Raiola knew how to look after himself and his players. I read in the Athletic that Haaland's signing will cost City around £300m, not £51m, and the Athletic is usually very close to the mark. I've no argument with you on Ruben Dias and Rodri being better value than Maguire and Fred, but I think a lot of that is down to the excellence of Pep and his staff. Maguire and Fred are both good players - you don't get 42 England or 25 Brazil caps if you're not - but United haven't used them well. Ten Hag might.
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Post by venceremos on May 25, 2022 11:48:09 GMT 1
Lumbered with a guy who scored 18 league goals and was third top scorer in the league? Without him they'd have likely been bottom half. He has inhibited several players and hindered the development of several others, and long term vision is impacted by having an immovable object up front that is expected to play every week. Yes he's a very prolific striker, but that is now all he does. You don't see city or liverpool with one of those and that's because he doesn't fit their system. A change of system is exactly what we'll see at City next season when Haaland starts. City are gaining a prolific striker but they'll have to lose a midfield player to accommodate him - no more false 9. Their system will have to change and it won't be quite so easy to dominate possession in the way they're used to. Some renowned pundits said Lukaku was the missing piece of Chelsea's jigsaw when he joined last summer and they would challenge for the title with him. Look how that didn't work out. Haaland's a great signing on paper but it's not going to be a case of putting him in the team and City become unbeatable. The system will change and the team will have to adapt.
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Post by venceremos on May 25, 2022 11:49:02 GMT 1
This man has got the easiest job in world football. Being paid a pretty penny and he's going to be given a lot of money to spend. Even if he underperforms next season the fans will give him time and the season after he could finish sixth/fifth and consider it progress. There's no way the current squad and investment to come means United should be out of the top four. The easiest job in world football? Bit early to be on the drink.
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 11:59:25 GMT 1
He has inhibited several players and hindered the development of several others, and long term vision is impacted by having an immovable object up front that is expected to play every week. Yes he's a very prolific striker, but that is now all he does. You don't see city or liverpool with one of those and that's because he doesn't fit their system. A change of system is exactly what we'll see at City next season when Haaland starts. City are gaining a prolific striker but they'll have to lose a midfield player to accommodate him - no more false 9. Their system will have to change and it won't be quite so easy to dominate possession in the way they're used to. Some renowned pundits said Lukaku was the missing piece of Chelsea's jigsaw when he joined last summer and they would challenge for the title with him. Look how that didn't work out. Haaland's a great signing on paper but it's not going to be a case of putting him in the team and City become unbeatable. The system will change and the team will have to adapt. I don't think the system will change to be honest, it'll still be 4-3-3. Maybe Sterling or another will miss out of the false 9 for a real 9, Jesus may suffer. They might even sell Jesus for £50-60m and make money on him. I can't see the 4-3-3 changing personally, I think they'll morph Haaland into it.
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Post by martinshrew on May 25, 2022 12:01:30 GMT 1
This man has got the easiest job in world football. Being paid a pretty penny and he's going to be given a lot of money to spend. Even if he underperforms next season the fans will give him time and the season after he could finish sixth/fifth and consider it progress. There's no way the current squad and investment to come means United should be out of the top four. The easiest job in world football? Bit early to be on the drink. How isn't it? Massive contract, fail, get sacked, get paid up. Massive contract, succeed, get an extension and bonuses, be a hero for "bringing United back". United have limited expectations now, they just want to get near City & Liverpool ASAP when in reality they need to be first worrying about Spurs, Arsenal, Chelsea & potentially Newcastle & West Ham.
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on May 25, 2022 12:02:07 GMT 1
He has inhibited several players and hindered the development of several others, and long term vision is impacted by having an immovable object up front that is expected to play every week. Yes he's a very prolific striker, but that is now all he does. You don't see city or liverpool with one of those and that's because he doesn't fit their system. So you're telling me Rashford or Lingard would've got 18? More chance of plaiting p**s. Who else was there, 35 year old Cavani? He'd have got 12+ probably but he's 35. No. I didn't say that. They were missing a forward, but Ronaldo was a panicked signing based around nostalgia, which most of the club has been since Ferguson left. But he needs the team to be moved around him - I don't think any successful team can really function like that. And meant ripping up any tactics formulated and started again. Not a strategy really at all. Yes he's saved them this season, but he has hindered the teams and individual players development. Just representative of how badly the club is being run and opposite to City and Liverpool.
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Post by sheltonsalopian on May 25, 2022 12:20:56 GMT 1
This man has got the easiest job in world football. Being paid a pretty penny and he's going to be given a lot of money to spend. Even if he underperforms next season the fans will give him time and the season after he could finish sixth/fifth and consider it progress. There's no way the current squad and investment to come means United should be out of the top four. The easiest job in world football? Bit early to be on the drink. Expectations have never been lower, a wage/transfer budget at the top of world football, the blokes got three years to finish in the top four, it's madness
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Post by venceremos on May 25, 2022 13:11:38 GMT 1
The easiest job in world football? Bit early to be on the drink. Expectations have never been lower, a wage/transfer budget at the top of world football, the blokes got three years to finish in the top four, it's madness Hasn't the past decade shown that it isn't enough to have a lot of spending power? Of course expectations are low now but that won't last. If United show signs of progress next season the expectation will be to finish in the top four next time. If there's no discernible progress next season, Ten Hag's position will already be under pressure. As he said himself, it takes time but there is no time at the biggest clubs. Look at United's top four rivals this time. Spurs, who only played a handful of easy Euro Conference games but still lost and were absolute gash until Conte took over, and Arsenal, who only ever had the league to concentrate on and still fell short. Spurs will have to cope with playing and recovering from Champions League games, Arsenal the Europa League. The rest are some way off sustaining a top four challenge. United don't have that far to go to be challenging for a top four place and Ten Hag won't get three years to achieve it.
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