I know that pitch invasions have been a thing over the years, the majority of them being good spirited and celebratory after achieving something special, but just recently, they seem to be occurring more and more often, and with any excuse being used to run on the pitch.
Tuesday saw the Billy Sharp incident which left him needing medical attention and the thug rightfully being jailed, and now last night we had Patrick Viera being confronted by an Everton thug and reacting by kicking him.
Even our own fan base have been at it recently, with a pitch invasion for a meaningless cup tie, and more recently when an opposition supporter was assaulted on the halfway line.
This really needs getting hold of by the authorities, but what sanctions and restrictions can realistically be put in place??
Clarke certainly seemed to lose the plot last night. He was out of his technical area getting between the ball boy (who had the ball in his hands) and the Swindon player wanting to take a throw. The Swindon player moved to get the ball and Clarke moved his head towards him and the Swindon player went down (not sure how much contact there was). I would guess Clarke will now lose the right to lead his team out or be on the touchline at Wembley and rightly so.
Post by Feedo Gnasher on May 20, 2022 8:21:04 GMT 1
It might only be a very small minority who behave like idiots but anyone that goes on the pitch is enabling the opportunity for these unsavoury scenes to happen.
There’s absolutely no need for anyone to go on the pitch in any circumstances.
Port Vale last night too. Several Swindon players were attacked as the Vale fans reverted to form.
Yes, the Swindon players virtually had to fight their way back to the tunnel for around a minute with very few stewards in sight. I dont know why the Vale 'fans' who attacked them (and it was more than a few) had to do that rather than celebrate their own team's success. Most of the hate seemed directed towards Mckirdy (who played for Vale last season) and it looked like the Swindon players were mostly trying to protect him from being attacked.
It might only be a very small minority who behave like idiots but anyone that goes on the pitch is enabling the opportunity for these unsavoury scenes to happen.
There’s absolutely no need for anyone to go on the pitch in any circumstances.
Agreed. Immediate 5 year banning order would make fans think twice… use technology to identify fans and give retrospective club bans..
Weve talked for years about a serious incident with players being attacked, we’ve had 4/5 in the last few weeks . It’s got to stop before a player or opposition fans gets stabbed….
No doubt we’ll get fans defending it saying it’s part if the game but I do think we’ll see big changes next season.
Last Edit: May 20, 2022 8:33:40 GMT 1 by davycrockett
A man that crossed over the line was for glory and he that was left better fly, and over the line crossed 179
block12massive
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
Post by block12massive on May 20, 2022 8:49:06 GMT 1
I've never quite understood the rule that it's a criminal offence subject to a likely banning order to run on the pitch unless it's in a moment of 'celebration' in which case there are just too many people to punish so it's all good.
It's pretty clear nowadays not everyone is intent on running on the pitch to 'celebrate'. And how embarrassing for Everton to think finishing likely 16th is a cause worthy of celebrating.
Fair play to Vieira though. I think that scumbag chose the wrong manager to pick on.
Post by davycrockett on May 20, 2022 9:18:43 GMT 1
Just had a great idea.
Football Passports. With technology as it is we all have to either have a season ticket or become a member to purchase tickets. Simply part if the process is supplying a photo which then appears on you card. The photos are held on a data base so fans can be identified by technology if identified as on the pitch or any other offence and the technology will identify them send them a letter , YOUR BANNED.
No doubt some will say Big Brother but wouldn’t bother me personally… You need photo ID to go to Glastonbury and other festivals, drive a car et al….
A man that crossed over the line was for glory and he that was left better fly, and over the line crossed 179
Football Passports. With technology as it is we all have to either have a season ticket or become a member to purchase tickets. Simply part if the process is supplying a photo which then appears on you card. The photos are held on a data base so fans can be identified by technology if identified as on the pitch or any other offence and the technology will identify them send them a letter , YOUR BANNED.
No doubt some will say Big Brother but wouldn’t bother me personally… You need photo ID to go to Glastonbury and other festivals, drive a car et al….
I agree in principle but I think clubs lower down the league ladder would be hesitant to put up any sort of barriers that may deter people from coming.
You definitely notice a difference in behaviour when we play against Premier League sides in the cup who's allocation when they come down here are limited to a small number of their season ticket holders as opposed to general sale tickets.
But that said, I thought the travelling contingent of Wolves and Liverpool fans created next to no atmosphere whatsoever.
The authorities have never had as much power as they've had to curtail football related violence and retrospectively punish offenders but this season has been one of the worst I can remember for a long time.
secretshrew
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
Post by secretshrew on May 20, 2022 10:05:23 GMT 1
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
block12massive
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Football violence hasn't peaked and troughed depending on whoever resides in Number 10 so I'd say that's a pretty poor attempt at point scoring.
Though I agree there are societal issues at play here and I don't suppose confining people to their house for 12-18 months has particularly helped with people's wellbeing.
But there's still this thing called individual responsibility and knowing right from wrong.
Last Edit: May 20, 2022 10:14:44 GMT 1 by block12massive
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Agreed. I’ve been thinking that but couldn’t find the words (as you have) to express it.
sheltonsalopian
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Football violence hasn't peaked and troughed depending on whoever resides in Number 10 so I'd say that's a pretty poor attempt at point scoring.
Though I agree there are societal issues at play here and I don't suppose confining people to their house for 12-18 months has particularly helped with people's wellbeing.
But there's still this thing called individual responsibility and knowing right from wrong.
Granted but I don't remember this many pitch invasions/fans acting like hooligans in the past 20 years or so, or it could just be with smartphones etc a lot more things are captured that didn't used to be.
secretshrew
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Football violence hasn't peaked and troughed depending on whoever resides in Number 10 so I'd say that's a pretty poor attempt at point scoring.
Though I agree there are societal issues at play here and I don't suppose confining people to their house for 12-18 months has particularly helped with people's wellbeing.
But there's still this thing called individual responsibility and knowing right from wrong.
Not into politics in the slightest and didn’t say there was a correlation or causation. But why would we expect football fan’s to abide by law when politicians (labour or tory) can’t? My point is broadly that their isn’t any law, order or deterrent it seems. Perhaps poorly made point on my part but gone are the day’s where police or politicians have any respect.
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Football violence hasn't peaked and troughed depending on whoever resides in Number 10 so I'd say that's a pretty poor attempt at point scoring.
Though I agree there are societal issues at play here and I don't suppose confining people to their house for 12-18 months has particularly helped with people's wellbeing.
But there's still this thing called individual responsibility and knowing right from wrong.
The thing is that people in authority have to set an example whether they like it or not. I am very concerned, for instance, that I have seen reported that the Port Vale manager received a red card for head butting someone. Not an example to set to fans I would have thought.
As gwynned has said something has to happen to sort this idea that attacking people on a football field is ok soon before something really serious occurs.
For me, politics doesn’t come into it. It’s whether we have good examples as leaders regardless of party.
I know that pitch invasions have been a thing over the years, the majority of them being good spirited and celebratory after achieving something special, but just recently, they seem to be occurring more and more often, and with any excuse being used to run on the pitch.
Tuesday saw the Billy Sharp incident which left him needing medical attention and the thug rightfully being jailed, and now last night we had Patrick Viera being confronted by an Everton thug and reacting by kicking him.
Even our own fan base have been at it recently, with a pitch invasion for a meaningless cup tie, and more recently when an opposition supporter was assaulted on the halfway line.
This really needs getting hold of by the authorities, but what sanctions and restrictions can realistically be put in place??
Not a lot can be done. Your first paragraph says it all, right or wrong pitch invasions have been a thing for years. Mindless idiots are always there too, just haul them out and deal with them - probably easier to catch in a heavily monitored football ground than throwing a brick through the window of the team coach on the motorway too.
Deprive them of the oxygen of pubicity, with social media it's now become too easy for said idiot to put their actions on line, from flicking the v sign to American mass murder. The hosts of these web sites need to be more accountable.
Encourage an inclusive fanbase - being part of the club and it's good name - we see it at Shrewsbury, younger teenagers only there for the taunting and trouble.
Parenting and the lockdown generation, same thing really, encourage an inclusive society that they feel part of.
I think of it as the postbox mentality - a postbox sits there just waiting for a kid to put a match into it and set fire to it and film it, but they hardly ever do. We need to get some respect built into people, even if they encroach onto the pitch.
Last Edit: May 20, 2022 10:51:17 GMT 1 by staffordshrew
kenwood
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
It’s not just a football problem. It’s a problem with society.
Sticking a camera in someone’s face telling them to f off, giving them the bird & recording it to put online to gain views/likes. He’ll be bragging to his mate’s & probably get his face on the front of a tabloid paper.
A complete lack of respect to anyone but themselves, full of their own self importance & a ‘I can do what I like’ attitude seems to be the norm at football and society.
Doesn’t help that most of the government seem to behave that way and therefore why should Joe Bloggs on the street do any different?
Football violence hasn't peaked and troughed depending on whoever resides in Number 10 so I'd say that's a pretty poor attempt at point scoring.
Though I agree there are societal issues at play here and I don't suppose confining people to their house for 12-18 months has particularly helped with people's wellbeing.
But there's still this thing called individual responsibility and knowing right from wrong.
Is this really true? Surveillance is a major factor. Mass Surveillance didn't really exist in the 60s/70s skinhead/bootboy era but I think the response to hooliganism does become more political from then on.
The conservatives were in power from 79 to 97, coinciding with the "casual" era and what most consider the nadir of hooligan violence, including the Heysel and Hillsborough disasters. The parallels with now are actually pretty striking; a period of under investment in public services and inequality during which (then predominantly) working class football fans were effectively allowed to be treated like animals by an administration which turned a blind eye to the shocking state of unsafe, decrepit stadia and appalling treatment of fans by a police force which, by the mid to late 80s, felt like it was more Maggy's private militia than there to protect the public (have a look at some of the stuff around the miner's strike - David Peace's "GB84" is an interesting read if you haven't already read it) until it was far too late and 97 people died.
Arguably the Taylor report and the investment of the Murdoch clan via Sky kick-started the process but the advent of widespread mobile phone and Internet usage saw hooliganism spike again in the late 90s / early 00s and the UK didn't really get a grip on it until the Blair government basically clamped down on it hard with draconian sentencing (look up the Battle of Maze Hill; landmark case which basically led to a massive reduction in incidents in the 00s and 10s), huge police presences (anyone who went to a Town v Chester or Wrexham game in the 00s will remember the robocop armies lining the streets) and the expansion of the wider Surveillance culture of the UK at the time into football (the era of cops stood in front of the west stand with handheld cameras).
For a long while, hooliganism incidents like those we've seen recently were vanishingly rare because the authorities had built up a pretty infallible reputation for identifying and heavily sentencing those involved. What seems to have happened over the last couple of years is a general loss of fear of consequences. Police are seen as understaffed, underresourced and demoralised. Courts are backed up for years in some cases and there's a general perception you can "get away with stuff".
You can see this in the drugs trade, which basically seems to operate with absolute impunity now even in sleepy Shropshire, and in the rise in anti social behaviour at football. Pyro going off at every game now it seems. That would have been unthinkable even 10 years ago.
Is it a coincidence that a collapse in police and judiciary numbers and funding and an overall sense of demoralisation in a pice force that evidently doesn't feel like it has the numbers for the job coincides with the back end of 12 years of austerity and an uptick in crime generally and in football after years and years of falling numbers?
Most would say it's not rocket science but I expect Gaslighters United over here will have some other explanation. Maybe it's down to the "woke mind virus"?
Bugger that, get the Met Police involved . They can be relied upon to sort things out 😂😂
In better times his Dad would drag him down to Palace and apologise to Vieira.
This is the actual appropriate solution. Either that or just the humiliation of being owned by Vieira on camera. Either way, I'm definitely pro an "asking for it" dimension on some of these scenarios.
Similarly the Swindon players shouldn't be punished for defending themselves from Vale thugs.
kenwood
Northern Premier League Division One Midlands
Vieira kicking a fan reminds me of Clough getting involved in a spot of bother . Do you remember that little incident ? Can’t remember the outcome without googling it. Some things never change do they , when passions run high and tempers get frayed anything could happen . It’s not right , you would think Managers would remove themselves from likely areas of conflict so that some t**t flicking the V in their face wouldn’t happen. With so much going on over the past week or so I wonder what stance the FA will take.
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