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Post by block12massive on May 31, 2022 11:12:14 GMT 1
Hardly news. Name me any 20th Century British political figure left, right or otherwise who's legacy in the form of a memorial or statue wouldn't be the target for vandalism. A sign of the times I'm afraid. When they regularly go for Churchill and Ghandi, I'm not exactly sure who would stand a chance.
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Post by davycrockett on May 31, 2022 11:21:41 GMT 1
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Post by block12massive on May 31, 2022 11:44:06 GMT 1
The hand wringing and condemnation of historical figures who's biggest crime seems to be that they were born 150 years ago and therefore their views and opinions are somewhat out-dated in the minds of the self-appointed dictats of today. If everyone wants to suggest a historical figure they admire, I'm sure between us we can find an example in their lifetime where they weren't sympathetic to trans rights or showed a blatant lack of understanding of gender fluidity. Then maybe we can go and trash their memorial to make us feel better? I'll start www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/the-dark-side-of-nelson-mandela/news-story/68f4acdbf2b0b4e6c799e458a55e6cb2
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 31, 2022 13:27:48 GMT 1
The hand wringing and condemnation of historical figures who's biggest crime seems to be that they were born 150 years ago and therefore their views and opinions are somewhat out-dated in the minds of the self-appointed dictats of today. If everyone wants to suggest a historical figure they admire, I'm sure between us we can find an example in their lifetime where they weren't sympathetic to trans rights or showed a blatant lack of understanding of gender fluidity. Then maybe we can go and trash their memorial to make us feel better? I'll start www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/the-dark-side-of-nelson-mandela/news-story/68f4acdbf2b0b4e6c799e458a55e6cb2I actually think this is a pretty healthy approach (unironically). On lunch break so not about to spend hours googling but I think it's Chomsky who argued that the whole idea of lionising historical figures is a control tool designed to give the average person in the street a feeling of helplessness and loss of control. Religion is the obvious example but you can point to political figures too. The basic premise is that by making them somehow more than human you also make it seem impossible to live up to for the average person who will then cease to advocate for change, believing that a messianic figure will arise and do it for them.
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Post by block12massive on May 31, 2022 14:15:44 GMT 1
The hand wringing and condemnation of historical figures who's biggest crime seems to be that they were born 150 years ago and therefore their views and opinions are somewhat out-dated in the minds of the self-appointed dictats of today. If everyone wants to suggest a historical figure they admire, I'm sure between us we can find an example in their lifetime where they weren't sympathetic to trans rights or showed a blatant lack of understanding of gender fluidity. Then maybe we can go and trash their memorial to make us feel better? I'll start www.heraldsun.com.au/news/opinion/the-dark-side-of-nelson-mandela/news-story/68f4acdbf2b0b4e6c799e458a55e6cb2I actually think this is a pretty healthy approach (unironically). On lunch break so not about to spend hours googling but I think it's Chomsky who argued that the whole idea of lionising historical figures is a control tool designed to give the average person in the street a feeling of helplessness and loss of control. Religion is the obvious example but you can point to political figures too. The basic premise is that by making them somehow more than human you also make it seem impossible to live up to for the average person who will then cease to advocate for change, believing that a messianic figure will arise and do it for them. It's not 'lionising' in every case though is it. The statue of Thatcher is more than anything an ode to the fact Grantham - a fairly hopeless place in the East Midlands - produced the first female Prime Minister. (it also gave us Isaac Newton which is truly remarkable if you've ever had the misfortune of visiting the place) Thatcher barely had any affiliation with the town as I understand it and also given the fact the statue was privately funded lends itself to this being more of a commemorative piece than one of endorsing ideology. At Oswestry Hospital they built a sculpture in tribute to 'Percy the Peacock' who died of a grand old age and used to cheer up the patients and staff. I'm not familiar with Percy's take on racial injustice but I doubt whatever his views they could have ever gone far enough to please the 'progressive' types. Having your legacy 'immortalised' usually denotes a remarkable achievement and/or a dedication to public service - as in Percy's case. Some notable people get statues, some get honours from the Queen. The best the rest of us can hope for is a park bench in the Quarry.
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Post by servernaside on May 31, 2022 18:21:42 GMT 1
I actually think this is a pretty healthy approach (unironically). On lunch break so not about to spend hours googling but I think it's Chomsky who argued that the whole idea of lionising historical figures is a control tool designed to give the average person in the street a feeling of helplessness and loss of control. Religion is the obvious example but you can point to political figures too. The basic premise is that by making them somehow more than human you also make it seem impossible to live up to for the average person who will then cease to advocate for change, believing that a messianic figure will arise and do it for them. It's not 'lionising' in every case though is it. The statue of Thatcher is more than anything an ode to the fact Grantham - a fairly hopeless place in the East Midlands - produced the first female Prime Minister. (it also gave us Isaac Newton which is truly remarkable if you've ever had the misfortune of visiting the place) Thatcher barely had any affiliation with the town as I understand it and also given the fact the statue was privately funded lends itself to this being more of a commemorative piece than one of endorsing ideology. At Oswestry Hospital they built a sculpture in tribute to 'Percy the Peacock' who died of a grand old age and used to cheer up the patients and staff. I'm not familiar with Percy's take on racial injustice but I doubt whatever his views they could have ever gone far enough to please the 'progressive' types. Having your legacy 'immortalised' usually denotes a remarkable achievement and/or a dedication to public service - as in Percy's case. Some notable people get statues, some get honours from the Queen. The best the rest of us can hope for is a park bench in the Quarry. Not sure why you use the word 'affiliation'. Margaret Tatcher was born in Grantham and attended school there until she was 19 before leaving for university. I would have thought that was more than an 'affiliation'. With regard to Isaac Newton, he was actually born at Woolsthorpe, some twenty miles south of Grantham, though he did attend school in Grantham for five years.
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Post by northwestman on May 31, 2022 18:33:32 GMT 1
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Post by armchairfan on May 31, 2022 19:15:33 GMT 1
Not a bad place, Grantham, to be honest; I found myself there a couple of years ago on one of my railway jaunts. I remember it well from the sixties in the days of steam on the ECML - it was a regular changeover point for locomotives, and consequently rather busy.....if you like that sort of thing! lol
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Post by block12massive on May 31, 2022 19:39:41 GMT 1
It's not 'lionising' in every case though is it. The statue of Thatcher is more than anything an ode to the fact Grantham - a fairly hopeless place in the East Midlands - produced the first female Prime Minister. (it also gave us Isaac Newton which is truly remarkable if you've ever had the misfortune of visiting the place) Thatcher barely had any affiliation with the town as I understand it and also given the fact the statue was privately funded lends itself to this being more of a commemorative piece than one of endorsing ideology. At Oswestry Hospital they built a sculpture in tribute to 'Percy the Peacock' who died of a grand old age and used to cheer up the patients and staff. I'm not familiar with Percy's take on racial injustice but I doubt whatever his views they could have ever gone far enough to please the 'progressive' types. Having your legacy 'immortalised' usually denotes a remarkable achievement and/or a dedication to public service - as in Percy's case. Some notable people get statues, some get honours from the Queen. The best the rest of us can hope for is a park bench in the Quarry. Not sure why you use the word 'affiliation'. Margaret Tatcher was born in Grantham and attended school there until she was 19 before leaving for university. I would have thought that was more than an 'affiliation'. With regard to Isaac Newton, he was actually born at Woolsthorpe, some twenty miles south of Grantham, though he did attend school in Grantham for five years. Yes but I don't think she thought a lot of the place. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Carol Thatcher saying as much. Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden was born in nearby Worksop. Don't think he ever returned to the place after he left it and with good reason!
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Post by servernaside on Jun 1, 2022 5:39:06 GMT 1
Not sure why you use the word 'affiliation'. Margaret Tatcher was born in Grantham and attended school there until she was 19 before leaving for university. I would have thought that was more than an 'affiliation'. With regard to Isaac Newton, he was actually born at Woolsthorpe, some twenty miles south of Grantham, though he did attend school in Grantham for five years. Yes but I don't think she thought a lot of the place. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Carol Thatcher saying as much. Bruce Dickinson of Iron Maiden was born in nearby Worksop. Don't think he ever returned to the place after he left it and with good reason! Birthplace and hometown are what they are....we don't have to like them.
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