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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 24, 2022 15:52:19 GMT 1
What's going on? I've been busy removing my internal doors and leaning them up against my living room wall.
Interesting option suggested made by the Ukrainian President - requesting that Russia is excluded from the international payments clearing system.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 24, 2022 15:54:45 GMT 1
What's going on? I've been busy removing my internal doors and leaning them up against my living room wall. Interesting option suggested made by the Ukrainian President - requesting that Russia is excluded from the international payments clearing system. well that will certanly hurt them
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 24, 2022 16:03:48 GMT 1
What's going on? I've been busy removing my internal doors and leaning them up against my living room wall. Interesting option suggested made by the Ukrainian President - requesting that Russia is excluded from the international payments clearing system. Well, basically Mr Putin has been removing internal " doors" and stacking them up against a wall.
Mostly Biden's call on the money, does he apply every sanction now, or keep some in reserve? Meeting soon to decide.
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Post by champagneprince on Feb 24, 2022 16:25:42 GMT 1
Please follow the Belarusian side via Franak Viacorka on Twitter, showing the 'true' feelings of Belarusians. Franak is the advisor to the real president Sviatlana Tsikhanouskaya who escaped to the west following the rigged elections of 2020. twitter.com/franakviacorkaYou will see footage, not seen on mainstream media here.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 24, 2022 17:04:41 GMT 1
I'm calling this early. Putin is actually insane, he is not a man in control of his own mind, he's lost the plot. I think this will be proven in time. If that is so, then his threats of an 'instant' response should not be taken lightly. I am gutted this morning. The Belarusian people are the friendliest, most peace loving people I know. They don't want Russians on their land, only one man does, Putin's puppet and their psychotic, dictator of a president Lukashenko. The TV is state run, all news is pro-Russian, but Luka is so stupid he does not fully understand there are a thousand other communication channels out there. The people know the truth. The Belarus people tried to oust Lukashenko last year, but got brutally crushed with imprisonments, beatings, torture, rapes and deaths widespread. Their response was to throw flowers at the special police (OMON) in the hope they would change. They didn't stop, they just got worse. They are tired of being under Russia's thumb. Just want to be a peaceful people, friendly with everyone in the world. So, it is with sadness I see the rockets being fired from Belarus territory. I will speak with my fiancee via Skype tonight. I was due to travel there in early summer for 20 days, and we had a future planned of 5 months living in the UK, 5 months living in Belarus and 2 months living our dreams travelling the world. Sadly, if things continue to escalate it looks like communication might be cut. We have managed to Whatsapp this morning, but guess tonight could will be our last Skype for the foreseeable. I do think Putin has gone a little crazy here. He has put the world on the brink on World war. The NATO Eastern borders will be heavily defended and I would be surprised if no shells fall on NATO territory at some stage. Where will it stop? Belarus has already been invaded, the Russian troops are already on their territory, the people don't want them there, that's an invasion in my book. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, will all be quaking in their boots no doubt. Sanctions aren't going to do anything if the guy has lost his marbles. He doesn't care. The best thing that can happen is for one of his own regime to see sense and put a bullet in his head and the head of Lukashenko. Just noticed my hands are trembling typing this and tears welling. **** it, I need a beer. I wish you and your fiancé well. It's tragic that it's come to this. Do you know what happened to that poor Belarussian journalist who was kidnapped from the hijacked plane a while back? I think of that crime now and again and it's horrible the way these people are forgotten as soon as the news cycle moves on. I read around the time of the stolen election that Lukashenko had outlived his usefulness to Putin and would be let go when the country calmed down. Another misreading of Putin .....
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 24, 2022 17:35:51 GMT 1
Excluding Russia from Swift would be a good move.
It might encourage them to look towards a crypto Blockchain though, that would be interesting.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Feb 24, 2022 17:43:16 GMT 1
Everyone’s known Putin was a wrong’un and Russia have been doing some shady things for years and years, it was just in each countries best interests to turn a blind eye and think selfishly. China will be next.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 17:51:33 GMT 1
Excluding Russia from Swift would be a good move. It might encourage them to look towards a crypto Blockchain though, that would be interesting. It was suggested by several at PMQs yesterday.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 24, 2022 17:59:20 GMT 1
the time to stop putin was 2014 we have cycles of leaders so every 5 years a new pm etc were russia anmd china have presidents for life and both think in the long term, that is why russia has been getting friendly with china .china will buy all the russian oil and gas they can get there hands on.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 24, 2022 18:01:55 GMT 1
I have to say that I share some of the misgivings about the strength of these sanctions, at least so far. Seems to be a case of "more to come" across the board (UK, EU, USA...) so I gather that means they are trying to warn Russia off from going further and still hope to bring about some end to this through diplomacy. What that end may look like though, who knows. But I guess at the moment the aim is to try and stop Putin at either the territory held by the separatists or at the very least, at the borders of the breakaway regions. how has the invasion been viewd in germany ?
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 24, 2022 18:10:44 GMT 1
It's an ill wind... You can buy the tank top on Amazon with the logo - £16.99. Puck Futin T shirts are £17.99.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 24, 2022 18:16:33 GMT 1
Boris finally showing why people voted for him, swift and decisive action on Russia; these sanctions are going to be hell for Russia.
I really hope the EU wake up and follow the UK & US in wanting to kick Russia out of using Swift.
Pootin is going to regret today.
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Post by champagneprince on Feb 24, 2022 18:26:01 GMT 1
If that is so, then his threats of an 'instant' response should not be taken lightly. I am gutted this morning. The Belarusian people are the friendliest, most peace loving people I know. They don't want Russians on their land, only one man does, Putin's puppet and their psychotic, dictator of a president Lukashenko. The TV is state run, all news is pro-Russian, but Luka is so stupid he does not fully understand there are a thousand other communication channels out there. The people know the truth. The Belarus people tried to oust Lukashenko last year, but got brutally crushed with imprisonments, beatings, torture, rapes and deaths widespread. Their response was to throw flowers at the special police (OMON) in the hope they would change. They didn't stop, they just got worse. They are tired of being under Russia's thumb. Just want to be a peaceful people, friendly with everyone in the world. So, it is with sadness I see the rockets being fired from Belarus territory. I will speak with my fiancee via Skype tonight. I was due to travel there in early summer for 20 days, and we had a future planned of 5 months living in the UK, 5 months living in Belarus and 2 months living our dreams travelling the world. Sadly, if things continue to escalate it looks like communication might be cut. We have managed to Whatsapp this morning, but guess tonight could will be our last Skype for the foreseeable. I do think Putin has gone a little crazy here. He has put the world on the brink on World war. The NATO Eastern borders will be heavily defended and I would be surprised if no shells fall on NATO territory at some stage. Where will it stop? Belarus has already been invaded, the Russian troops are already on their territory, the people don't want them there, that's an invasion in my book. Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, will all be quaking in their boots no doubt. Sanctions aren't going to do anything if the guy has lost his marbles. He doesn't care. The best thing that can happen is for one of his own regime to see sense and put a bullet in his head and the head of Lukashenko. Just noticed my hands are trembling typing this and tears welling. **** it, I need a beer. I wish you and your fiancé well. It's tragic that it's come to this. Do you know what happened to that poor Belarussian journalist who was kidnapped from the hijacked plane a while back? I think of that crime now and again and it's horrible the way these people are forgotten as soon as the news cycle moves on. I read around the time of the stolen election that Lukashenko had outlived his usefulness to Putin and would be let go when the country calmed down. Another misreading of Putin ..... 'Lost' in the system no doubt, along with hundreds if not thousands of others. I have no doubt there will be a media blackout now, tonight might the last time I see her for a considerable amount of time. The Belarusian people and Russian people will protest, but will be crushed, and there will be no knowing what goes on behind those closed doors afterwards. I fear greatly for them. Such a beautiful country, such a beautiful and peaceful people being now at the mercy of fate. There is only one solution for me, bullets, just two of them, and coming quickly from their own people. I can't see any other way. Sanctions will work but be too slow and any military loss will result in a licking of wounds and a full scale retaliation. Both of them are nuts, and crazy enough to do 'anything', like cornered rats. Therefore, they must not be given a chance. Quite frankly, perhaps all our futures rely on a few people, who can be in striking range and stops this before it goes too far, if it hasn't already.
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lynch
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Post by lynch on Feb 24, 2022 18:32:34 GMT 1
Boris finally showing why people voted for him, swift and decisive action on Russia; these sanctions are going to be hell for Russia. I really hope the EU wake up and follow the UK & US in wanting to kick Russia out of using Swift. Pootin is going to regret today. I wanted to understand the challenges in switching off swift. I think this article gives some insight on reasons why US is reluctant www.protocol.com/policy/russia-swift-sanctions-ukraine
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 24, 2022 18:45:11 GMT 1
Seems to be a case of "more to come" across the board (UK, EU, USA...) so I gather that means they are trying to warn Russia off from going further and still hope to bring about some end to this through diplomacy. What that end may look like though, who knows. But I guess at the moment the aim is to try and stop Putin at either the territory held by the separatists or at the very least, at the borders of the breakaway regions. how has the invasion been viewd in germany ? Pretty much the same as elsewhere I guess but I think the feeling of disappointment, anger, etc. will be felt a little more here in Germany because I think there has been an awful lot more dialogue and diplomacy between Berlin and Moscow than say from London. Also, pretty sure that Russian make up the largest migrant group here in Germany. So I think Germany and Russia are closer, or perhaps were depending how things pan out.
Part of that of course involves Nord Steam 2 which has now been knocked on the head. Bearing in mind that we import over 50% of our natural gas from Russia that leaves us with a pretty big hole to fill. So who knows how that will play out and just how much that will hurt us.
Other than that, thought this was pretty telling from a German general this morning (having heard there was war in Europe)...
Just to add, as I was reminded of Champagne's posts when looking to this, on the Expat Group it talks about the "four diasporas - Kazakhstan, Belarus, Russia and Ukraine are organizing a demonstration in Stuttgart against the dictatorships in our countries". Which is another indication of how many see the actions of their countries and those who run them.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 24, 2022 18:53:52 GMT 1
Sanctions to be put in place: Good, finally the West wakes up. Now can we expect tit for tat from Russia? No Western airline flights over Russia? What else? What does this mean for Crypto currencies, seems like the first big test of them?
Chenobyl now under Russian control. Why?
Cities in the Ukraine said to be under attack - so much for targeting military installations.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 24, 2022 19:29:57 GMT 1
Sanctions to be put in place: Good, finally the West wakes up. Now can we expect tit for tat from Russia? No Western airline flights over Russia? What else? What does this mean for Crypto currencies, seems like the first big test of them?
Chenobyl now under Russian control. Why?
Cities in the Ukraine said to be under attack - so much for targeting military installations.
I honestly cannot work out why the Russian forces have gone after Chernobyl; is it an emblematic move or something more sinister? I am not aware of it having any particular military significance.
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Post by vladimir on Feb 24, 2022 19:40:27 GMT 1
Short of nuclear war the only way Putin and Lukashenko dissappear is being got from within.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 24, 2022 19:45:50 GMT 1
Short of nuclear war the only way Putin and Lukashenko dissappear is being got from within. Why, and I hope I am proved wrong, does Russia seem to have the edge with the dirty tactics? The cyber attacks? The assasinations?
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Post by thesensationaljt on Feb 24, 2022 19:52:30 GMT 1
As well as feeling sorry for the Ukrainians, I also feel sorry for the Russian civilians. They weren't exactly living the life of riley before all this. Now things will get even harder for them. I believe there are anti war protests taking place in Russian cities.
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electrum
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Post by electrum on Feb 24, 2022 19:57:27 GMT 1
Not just did he have that in mind, he is doing it. Now. Not even the second largest army in Europe, (yes the Ukrainian army) will be able to stop him. Putin will have total control of Ukraine within 10-14 days, possibly sooner once Kiev falls and without other nations deploying ground or air forces (which they won’t) nobody will stop him. The big question is whether he stops there. In the short term he will, for sure, but longer term? Who knows. I was wrong in thinking Putin wouldn't go as far as he has but I don't believe he has any ambitions to go further than Ukraine, if indeed he intends to occupy the whole of the country. The conflict won't be over in a couple of weeks though. The Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, ostensibly in support of the Afghan government, resulted in a war that lasted almost a decade and ended in ignominious withdrawal by the USSR. Soviet military forces seized control immediately but the fighting dragged on, with huge loss of life on all sides. It's widely thought that the Soviet failure in Afghanistan was a key contributory factor in the collapse of the USSR within 3 years of its withdrawal from Afghanistan. Geographically, Ukraine is a huge country of 42m people. Invasion and subjugation aren't the same thing. Putin is risking Russia becoming embroiled in a conflict that could outlast him - and he's changed the rules to enable him to stay in power until 2036. I think the prospect of direct NATO military involvement remains very small. Ukraine isn't a NATO member and there is no treaty obligation to defend it. But the west and its allies will certainly supply weapons and support to the Ukrainian military and, if it comes to that, to Ukrainian 'rebels' fighting a Russian puppet government. Meanwhile, the UK needs to de-Russify itself. We've made it easier for Putin by enabling Russian dirty money to be laundered here and influence bought. That has to end now, whatever the cost to political parties, UK businesses - or football clubs! None of this "but they're on the electoral register so it's ok" collusion. In part we, and other western countries, are culpable in what's happening. Too many turned a blind eye to Russian interference and its evident strategy of dividing and weakening Europe because they liked the short term political gains for them that it helped to bring. I wish I shared your optimism Vanceremos - on both the extent of Putin’s ambitions in Ukraine, and how long Ukraine can put up any meaningful resistance.
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Post by returnofthehype on Feb 24, 2022 20:07:29 GMT 1
Listening to Biden makes me feel sorry for Americans…Jesus wept.
Even in his address he mentions they have already provided £750 millions pounds of military equipment to Ukraine in the last 6 months!!! And we wonder why Putin invaded…..
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Post by northwestman on Feb 24, 2022 20:09:08 GMT 1
As well as feeling sorry for the Ukrainians, I also feel sorry for the Russian civilians. They weren't exactly living the life of riley before all this. Now things will get even harder for them. I believe there are anti war protests taking place in Russian cities. Russian police arrested hundreds of people at anti-war demonstrations across the country on Thursday, as authorities warned that any “negative comments” about Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine would be treated as “treason”. Dozens of celebrities, including those employed by state media, took the highly unusual step of speaking out against Russian aggression despite the warning from officials. Riot police bundled demonstrators shouting “no to war”, or holding up posters, into packed vans as they rallied last night around Moscow’s Pushkin Square. Officers had sealed off the central square earlier in the day as an anti-protest measure. “I feel like Putin has gone crazy. A lot of people understand what’s going on and realise how far this can go,” one sobbing female protester, who declined to give her name, told The Telegraph on the sidelines of the rally. The Telegraph’s Moscow correspondent was briefly detained as she was conducting the interview. Russians face hefty fines or jail time for taking part in “unsanctioned protests” after years of Kremlin crackdown on the opposition. More than 900 people were arrested and some 40 rallies, many of them small, the independent monitor OVDinfo reported. After waking up to the news of a full-scale invasion of Ukraine, many in Moscow lined up to withdraw foreign currency from the capital’s banks, which soon ran out of cash. The ruble’s exchange rate against the dollar dropped by 10 percent. While most Russians feel they are not in immediate danger of a military conflict, the fear of an impending economic collapse is real. As they went about their days, Muscovites expressed disbelief and shame at their president’s decision, despite the Kremlin’s claim that the majority of the country supported action.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 24, 2022 20:10:27 GMT 1
Listening to Biden makes me feel sorry for Americans…Jesus wept. Even in his address he mentions they have already provided £750 millions pounds of military equipment to Ukraine in the last 6 months!!! And we wonder why Putin invaded….. Or perhaps - what gave him the excuse.
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Post by returnofthehype on Feb 24, 2022 20:18:14 GMT 1
Listening to Biden makes me feel sorry for Americans…Jesus wept. Even in his address he mentions they have already provided £750 millions pounds of military equipment to Ukraine in the last 6 months!!! And we wonder why Putin invaded….. Or perhaps - what gave him the excuse. Excuse or reason should come as no surprise really. Look at another way, if China and Russia sent Billions of pounds of military equipment to Cuba and troops to train them would America do anything about it??? We already know the answer
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 24, 2022 20:18:18 GMT 1
Listening to Biden makes me feel sorry for Americans…Jesus wept. Even in his address he mentions they have already provided £750 millions pounds of military equipment to Ukraine in the last 6 months!!! And we wonder why Putin invaded….. And with that equipment, Ukraine was going to invade Russia??? I despair.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 24, 2022 20:20:26 GMT 1
Short of nuclear war the only way Putin and Lukashenko dissappear is being got from within. Why, and I hope I am proved wrong, does Russia seem to have the edge with the dirty tactics? The cyber attacks? The assasinations? Because you won't hear about any from this side. It doesn't mean nothing happens.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 24, 2022 20:21:40 GMT 1
Listening to Biden makes me feel sorry for Americans…Jesus wept. Even in his address he mentions they have already provided £750 millions pounds of military equipment to Ukraine in the last 6 months!!! And we wonder why Putin invaded….. Or perhaps - what gave him the excuse. Ukraine is entitled to defend itself.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 24, 2022 20:22:12 GMT 1
Or perhaps - what gave him the excuse. Excuse or reason should come as no surprise really. Look at another way, if China and Russia sent Billions of pounds of military equipment to Cuba and troops to train them would America do anything about it??? We already know the answer It might be something to do with defending liberal democracy against the actions of autocratic dictators - just possibly.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 24, 2022 20:23:20 GMT 1
I was wrong in thinking Putin wouldn't go as far as he has but I don't believe he has any ambitions to go further than Ukraine, if indeed he intends to occupy the whole of the country. The conflict won't be over in a couple of weeks though. The Soviet Union's invasion of Afghanistan in 1979, ostensibly in support of the Afghan government, resulted in a war that lasted almost a decade and ended in ignominious withdrawal by the USSR. Soviet military forces seized control immediately but the fighting dragged on, with huge loss of life on all sides. It's widely thought that the Soviet failure in Afghanistan was a key contributory factor in the collapse of the USSR within 3 years of its withdrawal from Afghanistan. Geographically, Ukraine is a huge country of 42m people. Invasion and subjugation aren't the same thing. Putin is risking Russia becoming embroiled in a conflict that could outlast him - and he's changed the rules to enable him to stay in power until 2036. I think the prospect of direct NATO military involvement remains very small. Ukraine isn't a NATO member and there is no treaty obligation to defend it. But the west and its allies will certainly supply weapons and support to the Ukrainian military and, if it comes to that, to Ukrainian 'rebels' fighting a Russian puppet government. Meanwhile, the UK needs to de-Russify itself. We've made it easier for Putin by enabling Russian dirty money to be laundered here and influence bought. That has to end now, whatever the cost to political parties, UK businesses - or football clubs! None of this "but they're on the electoral register so it's ok" collusion. In part we, and other western countries, are culpable in what's happening. Too many turned a blind eye to Russian interference and its evident strategy of dividing and weakening Europe because they liked the short term political gains for them that it helped to bring. I wish I shared your optimism Vanceremos - on both the extent of Putin’s ambitions in Ukraine, and how long Ukraine can put up any meaningful resistance. I don't mean the Ukrainian military can go toe to toe with Russia for any great length of time. I mean that Russian occupation and the installation of a puppet government won't be the end of it. There won't be any peace.
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