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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 23, 2022 7:33:40 GMT 1
I have to say that I share some of the misgivings about the strength of these sanctions, at least so far. Seems to be a case of "more to come" across the board (UK, EU, USA...) so I gather that means they are trying to warn Russia off from going further and still hope to bring about some end to this through diplomacy. What that end may look like though, who knows. But I guess at the moment the aim is to try and stop Putin at either the territory held by the separatists or at the very least, at the borders of the breakaway regions.
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Post by shropshirelad42 on Feb 23, 2022 9:13:33 GMT 1
If Putin fills the disputed territories with Russian military forces it's going to take some special deal diplomatically to get him to remove them. There is no way this 'dictator' will be prepared to lose face as the situation stands at present.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 23, 2022 11:59:33 GMT 1
There a thought by some that's he's had Covid and been isolated that long he's no longer fully sane. Allegedly taking advice from nobody and doing solely what he wants.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Feb 23, 2022 12:05:51 GMT 1
There a thought by some that's he's had Covid and been isolated that long he's no longer fully sane. Allegedly taking advice from nobody and doing solely what he wants. Look at the photos of his huge meeting table and the massive room his ministers were assembled in with him at the opposite end. Looks like advanced megalomania to me.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 23, 2022 12:11:06 GMT 1
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 23, 2022 12:19:37 GMT 1
Frightening.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 23, 2022 13:25:54 GMT 1
"Frightening" was my first thought too, but is there not a possibility that the spy-chief's apparent hesitancy betrayed his innermost thoughts that Putin may just be leading the Russian Federation, and possibly the rest of the world, towards disaster and oblivion - in short, that the man is a menace? I have probably read too much Tom Clancy for my own good, but if I were an analyst at Langley or CCHQ, I might be looking at him with interest; perhaps hope, even. In the meantime, back here in the real world, we must tighten the grip of sanctions.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Feb 23, 2022 13:48:55 GMT 1
Clearly the issue is far bigger and more serious than a government bashing thread, but we really embarrass ourselves having people like her representing us on the global stage.
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 23, 2022 14:03:17 GMT 1
Clearly the issue is far bigger and more serious than a government bashing thread, but we really embarrass ourselves having people like her representing us on the global stage. The horse has long bolted. Over 150,000 Russians have been granted UK visas on a 'golden ticket' with being money laundered through various channels like property, business and party donations. Add to this the CCP funding of the Labour party, the Chinese investment into our nuclear power programme at Hinkley Point and you can quite clearly see how our safety and privacy is being wilfully compromised at the highest levels.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 23, 2022 15:01:51 GMT 1
Clearly the issue is far bigger and more serious than a government bashing thread, but we really embarrass ourselves having people like her representing us on the global stage. The horse has long bolted. Over 150,000 Russians have been granted UK visas on a 'golden ticket' with being money laundered through various channels like property, business and party donations. Add to this the CCP funding of the Labour party, the Chinese investment into our nuclear power programme at Hinkley Point and you can quite clearly see how our safety and privacy is being wilfully compromised at the highest levels. It may be a bit late to close the stable door, but we should probably give it a meaningful shove! The "golden ticket" scheme was initiated under the last Labour government, and regrettably has not been fully re-evaluated under subsequent Tory administrations. Perhaps it is time to consider whether the late Robin Cook's desire for an "ethical foreign policy" should apply to domestic policy, fiendishly difficult though that may be....
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Post by venceremos on Feb 23, 2022 15:45:06 GMT 1
Even worse than I thought. The three individuals have apparently been sanctioned by the US since 2018! And, as some are now pointing out, anyone not on the sanctions list just announced now has time to withdraw their assets from the UK, transfer ownership of properties etc etc. Johnson's response is not only weak, it actually seems designed to minimise damage to the Russian power elite. Apparently, he's also claimed Roman Abramovich is already sanctioned when he isn't. Incompetent or dishonest? Maybe just both, but then it's only wooden headed loyalists who haven't known that for a long time already. Rather than parodying your beloved Captain Hindsight, it would be helpful if you offered some sort of solution to the unfolding situation in Ukraine rather than simply adopting the position of your leader by barking insults from the sidelines and offering absolutely nothing of any substance. Your earlier prediction of there being no Russian invasion of Ukraine is already wrong. What's your next move o wise one? I'm flattered that you await my policy proposals although, given the paucity of your own thinking, I can understand why. However, I have to say, not for the first time, that it's not my job to provide solutions. A messageboard is a place for giving opinions, debating topics, making jokes, whatever but not really for solving the world's problems. If I were in politics, with all the research resources available to me, and paid to do so, I might come up with some proposals but, as the football managers say, we are where we are. Sorry to disappoint. By the way, mocking both hindsight and prediction in one short post is an interesting approach. Anyhow, for what it's worth, I still don't believe Russia will invade the whole of Ukraine. There's been fighting for years in the regions into which it's sent its troops. It could escalate of course - humans are often stupid and illogical - but I still think all sides have too much to lose for an all out war across Ukraine to develop. But we'll see and of course I could be wrong. Just out of interest, how would you score Johnson for his sanctions response yesterday? And more to the point, what do you imagine was Putin's response when he heard about it?
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Post by venceremos on Feb 23, 2022 15:49:32 GMT 1
I have to say that I share some of the misgivings about the strength of these sanctions, at least so far. I am particularly concerned about the sources of the Russian money which, it is continually being alleged, has found its way into Conservative Party coffers. You can only donate to a party if you're on the electoral register. The notion that sanctions so far aren't tough enough due to donations from ex Russians is left wing click bait similar to that from the last election where it seemed set in stone Donald Trump was going to buy the NHS😂😂😂 A typically lazy and complacent response. Being on the electoral register makes you a good egg, does it? You ever heard of a golden visa? Do you not see how Putin's strategy to divide and weaken the west is now bearing fruit? And you think that all these questionably wealthy Russians buying access to the levers of power in certain countries has nothing to do with that? Your devotion has blinded you to reality.
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 23, 2022 16:51:15 GMT 1
Rather than parodying your beloved Captain Hindsight, it would be helpful if you offered some sort of solution to the unfolding situation in Ukraine rather than simply adopting the position of your leader by barking insults from the sidelines and offering absolutely nothing of any substance. Your earlier prediction of there being no Russian invasion of Ukraine is already wrong. What's your next move o wise one? I'm flattered that you await my policy proposals although, given the paucity of your own thinking, I can understand why. However, I have to say, not for the first time, that it's not my job to provide solutions. A messageboard is a place for giving opinions, debating topics, making jokes, whatever but not really for solving the world's problems. If I were in politics, with all the research resources available to me, and paid to do so, I might come up with some proposals but, as the football managers say, we are where we are. Sorry to disappoint. By the way, mocking both hindsight and prediction in one short post is an interesting approach. Anyhow, for what it's worth, I still don't believe Russia will invade the whole of Ukraine. There's been fighting for years in the regions into which it's sent its troops. It could escalate of course - humans are often stupid and illogical - but I still think all sides have too much to lose for an all out war across Ukraine to develop. But we'll see and of course I could be wrong. Just out of interest, how would you score Johnson for his sanctions response yesterday? And more to the point, what do you imagine was Putin's response when he heard about it? Your overdue humility in admitting you're incapable of making decisions or contributing anything of any value should probably prompt some self-awareness in how you speak to others but as you concede yourself 'we are where we are'. My belief is that we are currently going through the motions with regards to diplomatic sanctions and it's a case of 'who blinks first'. With the EU expected to join the US and UK in imposing sanctions today, by targeting the influential individuals loyal to the Kremlin it may well give cause for Putin to think again. Especially given that there is very little appetite for war within Russia itself. Could this lead to some form of backlash against Putin? I doubt it but its worth exploring at this stage. The rest of the world can only wait for their next move with the expectation that the worst outcome possible is on the cards. But like you, I'm of the opinion that the deployment of their military to Luhansk and Donetsk under the guise of "peace-keeping" is probably nothing more than a show of strength by an ailing leader in a country that is a busted flush in terms of military power.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 23, 2022 17:11:44 GMT 1
I'm flattered that you await my policy proposals although, given the paucity of your own thinking, I can understand why. However, I have to say, not for the first time, that it's not my job to provide solutions. A messageboard is a place for giving opinions, debating topics, making jokes, whatever but not really for solving the world's problems. If I were in politics, with all the research resources available to me, and paid to do so, I might come up with some proposals but, as the football managers say, we are where we are. Sorry to disappoint. By the way, mocking both hindsight and prediction in one short post is an interesting approach. Anyhow, for what it's worth, I still don't believe Russia will invade the whole of Ukraine. There's been fighting for years in the regions into which it's sent its troops. It could escalate of course - humans are often stupid and illogical - but I still think all sides have too much to lose for an all out war across Ukraine to develop. But we'll see and of course I could be wrong. Just out of interest, how would you score Johnson for his sanctions response yesterday? And more to the point, what do you imagine was Putin's response when he heard about it? Your overdue humility in admitting you're incapable of making decisions or contributing anything of any value should probably prompt some self-awareness in how you speak to others but as you concede yourself 'we are where we are'. My belief is that we are currently going through the motions with regards to diplomatic sanctions and it's a case of 'who blinks first'. With the EU expected to join the US and UK in imposing sanctions today, by targeting the influential individuals loyal to the Kremlin it may well give cause for Putin to think again. Especially given that there is very little appetite for war within Russia itself. Could this lead to some form of backlash against Putin? I doubt it but its worth exploring at this stage. The rest of the world can only wait for their next move with the expectation that the worst outcome possible is on the cards. But like you, I'm of the opinion that the deployment of their military to Luhansk and Donetsk under the guise of "peace-keeping" is probably nothing more than a show of strength by an ailing leader in a country that is a busted flush in terms of military power. Oh give it a rest. I said it's not my job to propose solutions - a reasonable enough comment that anyone with any sense can understand. Evidently that was beyond you so you made a silly joke about decision making ability. It'd be nice if you could come in from playtime one day but I don't expect it to happen soon. Consequently, I don't care whether you think I contribute anything of value. Others on here, whose opinions I value rather more than yours, evidently do, and I'm grateful to them. You sidestepped my question regarding Johnson's sanctions and Putin's imagined response to them. I struggle to see how anyone could fail to be embarrassed by their inadequacy and the cavernous gulf between Johnson's words and actions. I'm not sure how you've surmised that I agree that the recognition of the 'Donbas republics' and the Russian military deployment there is "a show of strength by an ailing leader". It looks to me more like a confident action based on the knowledge that he has a winning hand to play there and, certainly judging by Johnson's flaccid response, Putin seems to have called that right. I hope that's the limit of his actions but he's certainly ahead of his opponents so far. If that's what you call ailing, well, ok. Is the Russian military a busted flush? It certainly doesn't rival the US, but I don't know. On what grounds are you claiming that? If it's a busted flush, it's one that nobody wants to engage.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 23, 2022 17:29:06 GMT 1
Your overdue humility in admitting you're incapable of making decisions or contributing anything of any value should probably prompt some self-awareness in how you speak to others but as you concede yourself 'we are where we are'. My belief is that we are currently going through the motions with regards to diplomatic sanctions and it's a case of 'who blinks first'. With the EU expected to join the US and UK in imposing sanctions today, by targeting the influential individuals loyal to the Kremlin it may well give cause for Putin to think again. Especially given that there is very little appetite for war within Russia itself. Could this lead to some form of backlash against Putin? I doubt it but its worth exploring at this stage. The rest of the world can only wait for their next move with the expectation that the worst outcome possible is on the cards. But like you, I'm of the opinion that the deployment of their military to Luhansk and Donetsk under the guise of "peace-keeping" is probably nothing more than a show of strength by an ailing leader in a country that is a busted flush in terms of military power. Oh give it a rest. I said it's not my job to propose solutions - a reasonable enough comment that anyone with any sense can understand. Evidently that was beyond you so you made a silly joke about decision making ability. It'd be nice if you could come in from playtime one day but I don't expect it to happen soon. Consequently, I don't care whether you think I contribute anything of value. Others on here, whose opinions I value rather more than yours, evidently do, and I'm grateful to them. You sidestepped my question regarding Johnson's sanctions and Putin's imagined response to them. I struggle to see how anyone could fail to be embarrassed by their inadequacy and the cavernous gulf between Johnson's words and actions. I'm not sure how you've surmised that I agree that the recognition of the 'Donbas republics' and the Russian military deployment there is "a show of strength by an ailing leader". It looks to me more like a confident action based on the knowledge that he has a winning hand to play there and, certainly judging by Johnson's flaccid response, Putin seems to have called that right. I hope that's the limit of his actions but he's certainly ahead of his opponents so far. If that's what you call ailing, well, ok. Is the Russian military a busted flush? It certainly doesn't rival the US, but I don't know. On what grounds are you claiming that? If it's a busted flush, it's one that nobody wants to engage. Come on, you two - enough of the personal slights! To the matter at hand, perhaps you both make valid points, but a slanging match is unlikely to make for interesting reading; what is going on in Putin's mind can only be guessed at, but as I have said before, as the aggressor, he will always lead the way....the fact is that the West can only react. As I hinted at, there may indeed be signs of disquiet, even factionalism, within the Kremlin hierarchy, a remote hope though that may be, which should be explored; anything is better than allowing this whole mess to develop a momentum of its own.
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Post by northwestman on Feb 23, 2022 17:38:20 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-toriesBoris Johnson could not have been more clear. “I just think it’s very important that the house understands: we do not raise money from Russian oligarchs.” Some opposition MPs laughed, and it very much is the case that the prime minister was accurate only in a strict legalistic sense. It would be impossible for someone with only Russian nationality, however rich, to donate legally to a UK political party. What has undoubtedly happened is that a series of people with dual UK-Russian nationality, or with significant business links with Russia, have donated heavily to the Conservatives in recent years.
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 23, 2022 17:47:47 GMT 1
Your overdue humility in admitting you're incapable of making decisions or contributing anything of any value should probably prompt some self-awareness in how you speak to others but as you concede yourself 'we are where we are'. My belief is that we are currently going through the motions with regards to diplomatic sanctions and it's a case of 'who blinks first'. With the EU expected to join the US and UK in imposing sanctions today, by targeting the influential individuals loyal to the Kremlin it may well give cause for Putin to think again. Especially given that there is very little appetite for war within Russia itself. Could this lead to some form of backlash against Putin? I doubt it but its worth exploring at this stage. The rest of the world can only wait for their next move with the expectation that the worst outcome possible is on the cards. But like you, I'm of the opinion that the deployment of their military to Luhansk and Donetsk under the guise of "peace-keeping" is probably nothing more than a show of strength by an ailing leader in a country that is a busted flush in terms of military power. Oh give it a rest. I said it's not my job to propose solutions - a reasonable enough comment that anyone with any sense can understand. Evidently that was beyond you so you made a silly joke about decision making ability. It'd be nice if you could come in from playtime one day but I don't expect it to happen soon. Consequently, I don't care whether you think I contribute anything of value. Others on here, whose opinions I value rather more than yours, evidently do, and I'm grateful to them. You sidestepped my question regarding Johnson's sanctions and Putin's imagined response to them. I struggle to see how anyone could fail to be embarrassed by their inadequacy and the cavernous gulf between Johnson's words and actions. I'm not sure how you've surmised that I agree that the recognition of the 'Donbas republics' and the Russian military deployment there is "a show of strength by an ailing leader". It looks to me more like a confident action based on the knowledge that he has a winning hand to play there and, certainly judging by Johnson's flaccid response, Putin seems to have called that right. I hope that's the limit of his actions but he's certainly ahead of his opponents so far. If that's what you call ailing, well, ok. Is the Russian military a busted flush? It certainly doesn't rival the US, but I don't know. On what grounds are you claiming that? If it's a busted flush, it's one that nobody wants to engage. It may not be your job to propose solutions but it's not unreasonable to expect that when you accuse others for being "woolly headed", "lazy and complacent" or lacking "paucity of thought" that you may have some degree of wisdom or foresight not accessible to those that you bestow with insults. So far Russia have only flexed their muscles in the region they have de facto control over since 2014. Like you, I'd be surprised if they moved beyond this. But Putin's 'declaration' of the Donbass region as an autonomous state is clearly a concern. You decry 'flag waving nationalists' and 'willy waving' yet you appear to be suggesting that the UK govt should be taking a firmer approach with its sanctioning of Russian interests to the point where Putin should be quaking in his boots. I'm not entirely sure what Johnson could have said or done that would have satisfied you. Any show of force would have been belittled as reckless and no doubt claimed to be a 'distraction from the partygate scandal'.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 23, 2022 18:03:27 GMT 1
Oh give it a rest. I said it's not my job to propose solutions - a reasonable enough comment that anyone with any sense can understand. Evidently that was beyond you so you made a silly joke about decision making ability. It'd be nice if you could come in from playtime one day but I don't expect it to happen soon. Consequently, I don't care whether you think I contribute anything of value. Others on here, whose opinions I value rather more than yours, evidently do, and I'm grateful to them. You sidestepped my question regarding Johnson's sanctions and Putin's imagined response to them. I struggle to see how anyone could fail to be embarrassed by their inadequacy and the cavernous gulf between Johnson's words and actions. I'm not sure how you've surmised that I agree that the recognition of the 'Donbas republics' and the Russian military deployment there is "a show of strength by an ailing leader". It looks to me more like a confident action based on the knowledge that he has a winning hand to play there and, certainly judging by Johnson's flaccid response, Putin seems to have called that right. I hope that's the limit of his actions but he's certainly ahead of his opponents so far. If that's what you call ailing, well, ok. Is the Russian military a busted flush? It certainly doesn't rival the US, but I don't know. On what grounds are you claiming that? If it's a busted flush, it's one that nobody wants to engage. It may not be your job to propose solutions but it's not unreasonable to expect that when you accuse others for being "woolly headed", "lazy and complacent" or lacking "paucity of thought" that you may have some degree of wisdom or foresight not accessible to those that you bestow with insults. So far Russia have only flexed their muscles in the region they have de facto control over since 2014. Like you, I'd be surprised if they moved beyond this. But Putin's 'declaration' of the Donbass region as an autonomous state is clearly a concern. You decry 'flag waving nationalists' and 'willy waving' yet you appear to be suggesting that the UK govt should be taking a firmer approach with its sanctioning of Russian interests to the point where Putin should be quaking in his boots. I'm not entirely sure what Johnson could have said or done that would have satisfied you. Any show of force would have been belittled as reckless and no doubt claimed to be a 'distraction from the partygate scandal'. Hey, I've been labelled an enabler of paedophilia on here, so let's not start getting an attack of the vapours over some pretty mild comments, eh? By the way, it was "wooden headed" and you don't seem to know what "paucity" means ..... but, anyway, my reference to 'flag waving nationalists' and 'willy waving' was actually directed at Russia in the first instance and, to a lesser extent Ukraine and the likes of Johnson with his tough talk - which we've seen so far to have been empty words. What more could Johnson have done? I'm not suggesting military action - I can't see any justification for that even if a full invasion of Ukraine were to occur. But there are far more than 5 Russian banks doing business with the UK. There are far more than 3 individuals with links to the Kremlin and UK assets. More, or even all, of them could have been sanctioned as the first retaliatory step. Why weren't they? Putin must have laughed when he saw how little Johnson was prepared to do.
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Post by armchairfan on Feb 23, 2022 18:15:50 GMT 1
My apologies: With reference to my earlier post, it seems that the "golden ticket" visa scheme was withdrawn by the Home Secretary a few days ago.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 23, 2022 19:42:04 GMT 1
My apologies: With reference to my earlier post, it seems that the "golden ticket" visa scheme was withdrawn by the Home Secretary a few days ago. Wonka?
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 23, 2022 22:15:26 GMT 1
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Post by salop27 on Feb 23, 2022 22:17:46 GMT 1
You can only donate to a party if you're on the electoral register. The notion that sanctions so far aren't tough enough due to donations from ex Russians is left wing click bait similar to that from the last election where it seemed set in stone Donald Trump was going to buy the NHS😂😂😂 A typically lazy and complacent response. Being on the electoral register makes you a good egg, does it? You ever heard of a golden visa? Do you not see how Putin's strategy to divide and weaken the west is now bearing fruit? And you think that all these questionably wealthy Russians buying access to the levers of power in certain countries has nothing to do with that? Your devotion has blinded you to reality. Divide and weaken the west? Some wealthy ex ruskies donating money to the political party who understands business is hardly a genius plan by Putin. What is trying to divide and weaken the West are labour MPs signing a letter undermining NATO.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 23, 2022 22:25:15 GMT 1
You can only donate to a party if you're on the electoral register. The notion that sanctions so far aren't tough enough due to donations from ex Russians is left wing click bait similar to that from the last election where it seemed set in stone Donald Trump was going to buy the NHS😂😂😂 A typically lazy and complacent response. Being on the electoral register makes you a good egg, does it? You ever heard of a golden visa? Do you not see how Putin's strategy to divide and weaken the west is now bearing fruit? And you think that all these questionably wealthy Russians buying access to the levers of power in certain countries has nothing to do with that? Your devotion has blinded you to reality. Was the golden visa not stopped a few years back?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 23, 2022 23:04:59 GMT 1
A typically lazy and complacent response. Being on the electoral register makes you a good egg, does it? You ever heard of a golden visa? Do you not see how Putin's strategy to divide and weaken the west is now bearing fruit? And you think that all these questionably wealthy Russians buying access to the levers of power in certain countries has nothing to do with that? Your devotion has blinded you to reality. What is trying to divide and weaken the West are labour MPs signing a letter undermining NATO. I appreciate the sanctions may have underwhelmed one or two (although there may be more to come) but on the whole, from what we have seen and heard anyhow, I have been quite impressed by the UK's response to this and the support they have given the Ukraine. Johnson looks a little more in his element anyhow and I suspect a good few who voted for him will have been reminded as to why they did of late having been reminded of the absolute clown who made up the alternative...
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 24, 2022 0:24:24 GMT 1
Clowns in plentiful supply in British politics.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 24, 2022 0:46:47 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 24, 2022 7:27:02 GMT 1
So I guess we are about to see just how far he is willing to go...
And when you hear this from Putin, it would suggest he means to annex the whole of the Ukraine or at the very least, install some proxy in Kiev (if it is to remain an independent state)...
In a special televised address on Russian state TV, Vladimir Putin said Russia has been left with no choice but to defend itself against what he said were threats emanating from modern Ukraine.
Mr Putin said Russia would respond instantly if any external force tried to interfere and that Moscow would try to de-militarise and 'de-Nazify' Ukraine.
"Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist with a constant threat emanating from the territory of modern Ukraine," said Mr Putin.
"All responsibility for bloodshed will be on the conscience of the ruling regime in Ukraine."
"No one should have any doubt that a direct attack on our country will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for any potential aggressor."
And in addition...
He warned other countries that any attempt to interfere with the Russian action will lead to "consequences they have never seen".
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Post by returnofthehype on Feb 24, 2022 9:04:20 GMT 1
Can’t blame him either….we have and would do the same.
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 24, 2022 9:27:02 GMT 1
So I guess we are about to see just how far he is willing to go... And when you hear this from Putin, it would suggest he means to annex the whole of the Ukraine or at the very least, install some proxy in Kiev (if it is to remain an independent state)... In a special televised address on Russian state TV, Vladimir Putin said Russia has been left with no choice but to defend itself against what he said were threats emanating from modern Ukraine. Mr Putin said Russia would respond instantly if any external force tried to interfere and that Moscow would try to de-militarise and 'de-Nazify' Ukraine. "Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist with a constant threat emanating from the territory of modern Ukraine," said Mr Putin. "All responsibility for bloodshed will be on the conscience of the ruling regime in Ukraine." "No one should have any doubt that a direct attack on our country will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for any potential aggressor."
And in addition... He warned other countries that any attempt to interfere with the Russian action will lead to "consequences they have never seen".Like somebody else said, proper willy-wagging. The blokes an absolute crank, there is no way in a million years he'll win this.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 24, 2022 9:47:57 GMT 1
So I guess we are about to see just how far he is willing to go... And when you hear this from Putin, it would suggest he means to annex the whole of the Ukraine or at the very least, install some proxy in Kiev (if it is to remain an independent state)... In a special televised address on Russian state TV, Vladimir Putin said Russia has been left with no choice but to defend itself against what he said were threats emanating from modern Ukraine. Mr Putin said Russia would respond instantly if any external force tried to interfere and that Moscow would try to de-militarise and 'de-Nazify' Ukraine. "Russia cannot feel safe, develop, and exist with a constant threat emanating from the territory of modern Ukraine," said Mr Putin. "All responsibility for bloodshed will be on the conscience of the ruling regime in Ukraine." "No one should have any doubt that a direct attack on our country will lead to defeat and terrible consequences for any potential aggressor."
And in addition... He warned other countries that any attempt to interfere with the Russian action will lead to "consequences they have never seen".The blokes an absolute crank, there is no way in a million years he'll win this. Dunno. I think that will depend on his aims. If for example he means to invade and occupy only the breakaway republics or whether he means to continue on to Kiev. If its the former then I think that would be done extremely quickly followed by years of protracted tension on the border and between Russia and "the West". However, I think that would be accommodated soon enough (as much as it can be) and something most would want to just live with. If its the latter though, I think that will have far reaching consequences and who knows...
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