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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 17:25:02 GMT 1
Who ever advise West Ham on their PR needs to be sacked pronto.
In my opinion West Ham are just digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 11, 2022 17:58:15 GMT 1
I don't know why racism now appears to be the benchmark for crimes to be measured against. Yesterday I saw someone suggesting people in this country get more worked up by a cat being kicked than racism, he must be blind then judging by some of the stuff that has happened over the last couple of years. I think the situation here has been made worse by the original stance of the powers that be, the RSPCA & Police initially said no action would be taken and West Ham played him in their next match, by appearing to do nothing then that has angered a lot more people. Yes of course there would still have been a story had they charged him or suspended him, but by doing nothing, it has increased the backlash. My understanding is that the RSPCA said no such thing and have been investigating throughout, hence the cats being taken from Zouma's home. It's to their credit that they just got on with their job, rather than pandering to the insatiable demands for instant, but ultimately meaningless, condemnation. We saw something similar with Mason Greenwood, where some attacked Gary Neville and others for not shouting loudly enough when it was clear to anyone sensible that the need was to keep quiet so that the possibility of a prosecution wouldn't be compromised. I disagree with Michail Antonio's racism comparison but I understand the point he's making. I think he's referring to John Terry and the case involving his alleged remarks to Anton Ferdinand. He was acquitted in criminal court but subsequently found guilty at an FA disciplinary hearing, banned for 4 matches and fined £220,000. I've seen arguments that Zouma's club fine is £250,000 and he's lost sponsorship deals, so his punishment is more severe than Terry's. Apart from the fact that Terry's punishment was 10 years ago, I don't think it's particularly relevant. The FA made its decision, the club made its (inadequate) fining decision and the sponsors have made their own decisions. That doesn't mean racism isn't taken seriously but it's too simplistic to say "racism" is a single crime warranting a minimum level of punishment. I abhor racism but happen to believe that cruelty to animals is a worse offence than anything one footballer might say to another, however vile that might be. But I also don't believe Antonio deserves to be castigated for expressing an honestly held opinion - and I don't believe it helps at all if such views are merely dismissed in a patronising way.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2022 19:45:36 GMT 1
Irony? The point of your post is that tormenting animals is no big deal and people should stop making such a fuss. It's not irony, it's exaggeration for sociopathic effect. I've never used an obscene insult; euphemisms and the odd-bit of rhyming slang maybe... You and I both know that calling anyone a 'Jeremy Hunt' is an obscene comment. Don't hide behind the so-called 'rhyming slang'. See you next Tuesday 👍
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 11, 2022 19:57:03 GMT 1
Who ever advise West Ham on their PR needs to be sacked pronto. In my opinion West Ham are just digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Feb 11, 2022 19:59:26 GMT 1
Who ever advise West Ham on their PR needs to be sacked pronto. In my opinion West Ham are just digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves. there aproach has anoyed me as you say they need to stop digging acording to wiki 24% of the population have a cat so a lot of west ham fans are cat lovers
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 11, 2022 20:33:55 GMT 1
I wonder if there will be pressure on David Moyes internally not to pick him. I hope not. 1) The cats have a new home 2) Animal charities are £250,000 to the good. 3) Zouma is being investigated and may be charged with a criminal offence.
So all the correct things have been done.
Anything else is about a country that allows dogs to tear foxes apart even though it is illegal show how much it cares about animals.
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Post by kenwood on Feb 11, 2022 23:46:58 GMT 1
Am I right. Did I read on this thread that the RSPCA are going to provide West Ham with some courses for KZ so that he understands …..? WTF is there to understand . Here we are Kurt , Lesson 1 : This is a cat. Don’t kick it
I just cannot believe that West Ham have come out with such crap. An absolute insult to peoples intelligence .
Personally I think the brothers have really f.cked up. They both thought that they would put out , on social media , a clip of Kurt kicking/ slapping his cat for a laugh and that others would find it funny . I really don’t think he realised that the outcome would be so bad. . He probably thought , well, I haven’t actually booted the cat , just dropped it down on the floor and pretended to do so so that it slid on the shiny surface . He probably thought people would realise that, if he had really booted the cat then the RSPCA wouldn’t be taking it away , the cat would be dead.
For weeks if not months KZ will be pilloried. This incident will follow him for the rest of his career .
Why would anyone post such cruelty on social media unless they thought people would realise that the cat wasn’t actually going to be hurt . It was all a laugh.
I don’t know, has KZ actually tried to defend himself , to come up with an excuse .
He’s learnt the hard way and West Ham are determined that they are not going to let their fight for a top 4 finish suffer .
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 12, 2022 1:20:37 GMT 1
I wonder if there will be pressure on David Moyes internally not to pick him. I hope not. 1) The cats have new home 2) Animal charities are £250,000 to the good. 3) Zouma is being investigated and my be charged with a criminal offence. So all the correct things have been done. Anything else is about a country that allows dogs to tear foxes apart even though it is illegal show how much it cares about animals. There's always one 🙄
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 12, 2022 11:05:14 GMT 1
I wonder if there will be pressure on David Moyes internally not to pick him. I hope not. 1) The cats have new home 2) Animal charities are £250,000 to the good. 3) Zouma is being investigated and my be charged with a criminal offence. So all the correct things have been done. Anything else is about a country that allows dogs to tear foxes apart even though it is illegal show how much it cares about animals. There's always one 🙄 And such is the state of affairs that they are usually counted on the fingers of one hand on this board. Some proportion needs to be injected rather than leaving the thread to the tar and feather groupies.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Feb 12, 2022 14:42:20 GMT 1
The plot thickens… Look at the 12th paragraph onwards - www.bbc.com/sport/football/60345306.ampHowever, the RSPCA said in a statement on Saturday that "there have been no plans made for animal welfare courses to be undertaken". It added: "Our focus remains entirely on our experienced officers carrying out a full and thorough investigation." The RSPCA said it has also "not been offered or accepted a donation".
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Post by champagneprince on Feb 12, 2022 15:30:44 GMT 1
Zouma is a cruel barsteward.
And whoever put the video on social media is brain dead.
Moyes job is to win football games. Why should he let a cruel barsteward and his brain dead family affect his own job? West Ham owe Zouma no support and no protection. If an employee of Muller did the same would they be protected by their employer or would Muller expect them to turn up to work next day and do the job they are paid to do?
Maybe they should make a TV programme about his 'rehabilitation'? Dion Dublin can be the interviewer, Gary Lineker the narrator, with lots of footage of Zouma's cosy family unit and his real love for cats.
It could even get to the stage where Zouma becomes the face of Whiskas cat food.
**** him. His future lies abroad, in a country that doesn't treasure their pets as much as we do.
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 12, 2022 15:54:45 GMT 1
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 12, 2022 21:33:57 GMT 1
I wonder if there will be pressure on David Moyes internally not to pick him. I hope not. 1) The cats have a new home 2) Animal charities are £250,000 to the good. 3) Zouma is being investigated and may be charged with a criminal offence. So all the correct things have been done. Anything else is about a country that allows dogs to tear foxes apart even though it is illegal show how much it cares about animals. A simple fact-checking of what you've claimed confirms you're talking mostly nonsense.
1. The cats have been taken into care pending the outcome of the investigation. This is not the same as being re-homed. 2. The four week fine handed to Zouma is payable to West Ham United FC. No donation has to this point been received by any animal charity and the RSPCA confirm that no one at the club has been in touch to discuss any 'animal welfare training'.
Your third point is the only one that is remotely accurate but I can't make any sort of sense out of your off-the-cuff remark about dogs and foxes.
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Post by TOP MONNER on Feb 12, 2022 21:48:33 GMT 1
I don't know why racism now appears to be the benchmark for crimes to be measured against. Yesterday I saw someone suggesting people in this country get more worked up by a cat being kicked than racism, he must be blind then judging by some of the stuff that has happened over the last couple of years. I think the situation here has been made worse by the original stance of the powers that be, the RSPCA & Police initially said no action would be taken and West Ham played him in their next match, by appearing to do nothing then that has angered a lot more people. Yes of course there would still have been a story had they charged him or suspended him, but by doing nothing, it has increased the backlash. My understanding is that the RSPCA said no such thing and have been investigating throughout, hence the cats being taken from Zouma's home. It's to their credit that they just got on with their job, rather than pandering to the insatiable demands for instant, but ultimately meaningless, condemnation. We saw something similar with Mason Greenwood, where some attacked Gary Neville and others for not shouting loudly enough when it was clear to anyone sensible that the need was to keep quiet so that the possibility of a prosecution wouldn't be compromised. I disagree with Michail Antonio's racism comparison but I understand the point he's making. I think he's referring to John Terry and the case involving his alleged remarks to Anton Ferdinand. He was acquitted in criminal court but subsequently found guilty at an FA disciplinary hearing, banned for 4 matches and fined £220,000. I've seen arguments that Zouma's club fine is £250,000 and he's lost sponsorship deals, so his punishment is more severe than Terry's. Apart from the fact that Terry's punishment was 10 years ago, I don't think it's particularly relevant. The FA made its decision, the club made its (inadequate) fining decision and the sponsors have made their own decisions. That doesn't mean racism isn't taken seriously but it's too simplistic to say "racism" is a single crime warranting a minimum level of punishment. I abhor racism but happen to believe that cruelty to animals is a worse offence than anything one footballer might say to another, however vile that might be. But I also don't believe Antonio deserves to be castigated for expressing an honestly held opinion - and I don't believe it helps at all if such views are merely dismissed in a patronising way. It's classic whataboutery from Antonio and he absolutely deserves to be ridiculed for it.
I wonder if Zouma wasn't black, whether he would make the same inconsequential false equivalence?
I'm pretty sure his clearly rehearsed comment was intended as a subtle way of implying racism in the level of outrage directed at Zouma as well as desperately trying to deflect some of the attention away from his teammate.
The Terry/Ferdinand example you cite happened over 10 years ago.
The evidence of which was hardly compelling either.
I'd expect were that to happen again today, given the prevalance of the whole anti-racism campaign recently there would be a much bigger punishment both financially and in terms of a lengthier ban.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 13, 2022 14:43:53 GMT 1
I wonder if there will be pressure on David Moyes internally not to pick him. I hope not. 1) The cats have a new home 2) Animal charities are £250,000 to the good. 3) Zouma is being investigated and may be charged with a criminal offence. So all the correct things have been done. Anything else is about a country that allows dogs to tear foxes apart even though it is illegal show how much it cares about animals. A simple fact-checking of what you've claimed confirms you're talking mostly nonsense.
1. The cats have been taken into care pending the outcome of the investigation. This is not the same as being re-homed. 2. The four week fine handed to Zouma is payable to West Ham United FC. No donation has to this point been received by any animal charity and the RSPCA confirm that no one at the club has been in touch to discuss any 'animal welfare training'.
Your third point is the only one that is remotely accurate but I can't make any sort of sense out of your off-the-cuff remark about dogs and foxes.
When your posts are frequently liked by martinshrew it's a red flag. Simple fact checking would reveal that Moyes exact words were "an appropriate animal welfare charity".
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Post by martinshrew on Feb 13, 2022 17:19:44 GMT 1
A simple fact-checking of what you've claimed confirms you're talking mostly nonsense.
1. The cats have been taken into care pending the outcome of the investigation. This is not the same as being re-homed. 2. The four week fine handed to Zouma is payable to West Ham United FC. No donation has to this point been received by any animal charity and the RSPCA confirm that no one at the club has been in touch to discuss any 'animal welfare training'.
Your third point is the only one that is remotely accurate but I can't make any sort of sense out of your off-the-cuff remark about dogs and foxes.
When your posts are frequently liked by martinshrew it's a red flag. Simple fact checking would reveal that Moyes exact words were "an appropriate animal welfare charity". Simple fact checking would be to realise regardless of what Moyes has said, to this point no donation has been received by any animal charity. Wrong again Sean, it's becoming a habit.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Feb 13, 2022 17:38:48 GMT 1
Kurt Zouma pulled out of West Ham's game at Leicester today during the warm-up, after he had been named in the starting eleven.
The defender had been picked for the Premier League clash despite the ongoing outcry over the cat kicking video but dropped out of the squad after reportedly feeling unwell.
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Post by vladimir on Feb 13, 2022 17:40:00 GMT 1
Souness bang on the money.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Feb 13, 2022 18:41:02 GMT 1
When your posts are frequently liked by martinshrew it's a red flag. Simple fact checking would reveal that Moyes exact words were "an appropriate animal welfare charity". Simple fact checking would be to realise regardless of what Moyes has said, to this point no donation has been received by any animal charity. Wrong again Sean, it's becoming a habit. If Zouma had kicked Keir Starmer martinshrew would be saying, "Are we still on about this?"
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Post by Pilch on Feb 13, 2022 18:42:18 GMT 1
Kurt Zouma pulled out of West Ham's game at Leicester today during the warm-up, after he had been named in the starting eleven. The defender had been picked for the Premier League clash despite the ongoing outcry over the cat kicking video but dropped out of the squad after reportedly feeling unwell. just heard that, it made me laugh might need a cat scan
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Post by ssshrew on Feb 13, 2022 20:48:22 GMT 1
Kurt Zouma pulled out of West Ham's game at Leicester today during the warm-up, after he had been named in the starting eleven. The defender had been picked for the Premier League clash despite the ongoing outcry over the cat kicking video but dropped out of the squad after reportedly feeling unwell. Oh dear. Nothing trivial I hope!!
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Post by cheggersdrinkspop on Feb 13, 2022 23:24:55 GMT 1
Kurt Zouma pulled out of West Ham's game at Leicester today during the warm-up, after he had been named in the starting eleven. The defender had been picked for the Premier League clash despite the ongoing outcry over the cat kicking video but dropped out of the squad after reportedly feeling unwell. Possibly a fur ball maybe 🤔
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Feb 14, 2022 12:23:49 GMT 1
So with the latest police rumours doing the rounds, will our former loan goalkeeper be cancelled should his alleged misdeeds be confirmed? Can’t see a thread specifically for this, so this feels the topic most closely aligned…
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 14, 2022 14:56:20 GMT 1
So with the latest police rumours doing the rounds, will our former loan goalkeeper be cancelled should his alleged misdeeds be confirmed? Can’t see a thread specifically for this, so this feels the topic most closely aligned… He's already angling for a move due to apparently not being considered first choice goalkeeper. Where he goes may depend on the outcome of this - I suppose West Ham would be ok with it.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Feb 14, 2022 16:09:22 GMT 1
So with the latest police rumours doing the rounds, will our former loan goalkeeper be cancelled should his alleged misdeeds be confirmed? Can’t see a thread specifically for this, so this feels the topic most closely aligned… Who’s this I haven’t heard?
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Post by Rusholme Ruffian on Feb 14, 2022 16:33:45 GMT 1
So with the latest police rumours doing the rounds, will our former loan goalkeeper be cancelled should his alleged misdeeds be confirmed? Can’t see a thread specifically for this, so this feels the topic most closely aligned… Who’s this I haven’t heard? Allegedly arrested for assaulting his girlfriend
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Feb 14, 2022 16:59:51 GMT 1
Who’s this I haven’t heard? Allegedly arrested for assaulting his girlfriend Gotcha, from what I can see he hasn’t officially been named just rumours.
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Post by callum on Feb 14, 2022 20:14:12 GMT 1
Who’s this I haven’t heard? Allegedly arrested for assaulting his girlfriend What the hell is wrong with these footballers who think it is acceptable to assault their partners?
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Post by Pilch on Feb 14, 2022 20:26:49 GMT 1
So with the latest police rumours doing the rounds, will our former loan goalkeeper be cancelled should his alleged misdeeds be confirmed? Can’t see a thread specifically for this, so this feels the topic most closely aligned… Who’s this I haven’t heard? supposed to have happened in 2019, and a few quid sorted it all out, no name was ever confirmed, papers looking for titbits surrounding the mason rape claim
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on Feb 14, 2022 23:43:03 GMT 1
Good to see our former goalkeeper come out firing just now on social media to try and put this to bed. He’s clearly unequivocal it’s nothing to do with him.
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