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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 18, 2021 11:29:36 GMT 1
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 18, 2021 11:41:37 GMT 1
Only one ?
And don't be expecting any Tournaments held there anytime soon
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 18, 2021 13:21:17 GMT 1
Shows the booing national anthems is not acceptable, yet fans still continue with their old ways and even not a small minority . Surely we should just save the money and not apply to host tournaments until they stop.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2021 13:45:08 GMT 1
Having seen the behaviour of fans on that day this is not surprise.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 18, 2021 17:16:00 GMT 1
Amazing that many countries (eastern European in particular) that constantly get away with their racist fans though.
Would think there are bigger issues happening in that direction personally.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Oct 18, 2021 17:21:58 GMT 1
Block 19 could be next
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Post by Pilch on Oct 18, 2021 17:23:12 GMT 1
we deserve it t be honest, we are quick to have a pop at other countries but we are as bad at times
shame the fa don't clamp down more too, trouble is it wouldn't be long before our own town idiots get us shut down for games
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 18, 2021 17:31:23 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 8:26:18 GMT 1
It's deserved and probably a wake up call to some people in this country
But I would say you have to put the day itself into context as this was no ordinary game, or even a ordinary final. This was a final in England involving England so a once in a lifetime event, hundreds of thousands would want to go, however we had the small matter of covid but were also in that transitional time where things were open but not fully open. If things were normal then you'd have an extra 30,000 people in the ground, you would have pubs open at full capacity, you'd have large amounts of fan parks. Instead, you had thousands of people with nowhere to go except an unofficial gathering at Wembley. It was no wonder people headed there and then it was (sadly) inevitable that thousands of people drinking (and god knows what else) all day would lead to some of the scenes we saw.
I knew people who went down and I was asked if I wanted to but I thought it was pointless, for some it turned out to be a good day as they were organised and booked pubs down there. But for others they weren't so lucky, I saw one group who went on a coach and a photo of them was widely shared on social media, I then saw one lad moaning the next day because he travelled all that way only to watch the game on a tv in his hotel room as couldn't get in anywhere. I suspect lots were in that position and some decided to react slightly more strongly than a moan on twitter.
I know plenty will say that it's their own fault as they were told not to go down but the reality is during the Euro's and in fact the last 18 months we have heard lots of talk from the police/authorities that people should not attend certain events, mass gatherings are not allowed etc, but they've been ignored and people have seen the police standing by and not doing anything. I think weak policing has been a big factor in a lot of things over the last 18 months as that has inevitably led to some people thinking they can just ignore the calls. But the one thing that has surprised me from that day is the lack of policing, particularly at Wembley, in numerous videos I've seen it seems to be left to the poor stewards to try and control the fans.
Like I said a wake up call in this country, particularly to those at the top who are responsible for organisation.
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Post by armchairfan on Oct 19, 2021 9:00:10 GMT 1
Not entirely undeserved to be honest, certainly as regards the fighting and misbehaviour of the idiots trying to force entry; also, I have always thought the booing of national anthems to be childish in the extreme and acutely embarrassing. What worries me slightly is that the (correct) action to exert a penalty will drift towards a ban on disrespect towards opponents, by booing their play... I can see the argument developing: " disrespect is disrespect, whatever it may be, and whenever it occurs"
Highly unlikely, I suppose, but don't dismiss such a trend out of hand - we live in a crazy world!
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2021 9:27:09 GMT 1
How are the FA to be held responsible for fans who boo the national anthems. That's bizarre. Or is there more to it when it comes to " disturbances during the national anthems"? You can ask fans to be respectful but what else are you expected to do? Other than that then I don't think there can be any complaints as it was a mess down there on the day of the final and it's also reported that there were similar incidents that occurred during previous games (against Denmark, say). My mind goes back to that article (in the Telegraph I think) where it was detailing how the area is policed on match days (who is responsible for what areas in and around the stadium) and that just looked like a recipe for disaster (when you look to Wembley now and the surrounding area, with so much development close by). However, hopefully lessons will have been learnt and they will now get a handle on it.
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Post by filmcrewshrew1 on Oct 19, 2021 9:39:24 GMT 1
TALKSport this morning played a recording of someone discussing the incident at the Euro Final and the breach of non-ticket supporters who take drugs as "mostly white affluent males fueling this behavior".
Nowt mentioned on this when they cut back to the studio guests. Wow!!!
Imagine if he's said black males.
#racismonlyworksoneway
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 9:44:19 GMT 1
My mind goes back to that article (in the Telegraph I think) where it was detailing how the area is policed on match days (who is responsible for what areas in and around the stadium) and that just looked like a recipe for disaster (when you look to Wembley now and the surrounding area, with so much development close by). However, hopefully lessons will have been learnt and they will now get a handle on it. I read an article somewhere that said that UEFA/FIFA like to have grounds where you can put a 'ring of steel' around them which means fans wthout tickets can get nowhere near the ground but like you said the development at Wembley makes that near impossible. Although it's obviously worth pointing out that matches have been held at the new Wembley with 90,000 fans for many years and generally it is policed well. People are looking to pin it on someone/something but it was a combination of factors which contributed to that day, almost a perfect storm.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2021 10:02:22 GMT 1
My mind goes back to that article (in the Telegraph I think) where it was detailing how the area is policed on match days (who is responsible for what areas in and around the stadium) and that just looked like a recipe for disaster (when you look to Wembley now and the surrounding area, with so much development close by). However, hopefully lessons will have been learnt and they will now get a handle on it. I read an article somewhere that said that UEFA/FIFA like to have grounds where you can put a 'ring of steel' around them which means fans wthout tickets can get nowhere near the ground but like you said the development at Wembley makes that near impossible. Although it's obviously worth pointing out that matches have been held at the new Wembley with 90,000 fans for many years and generally it is policed well. People are looking to pin it on someone/something but it was a combination of factors which contributed to that day, almost a perfect storm. Yeah, that's the thing isn't it. Ring fence the area and make sure no one without a valid ticket gets anywhere near the stadium but I gather with the shops, restaurants, hotels and whatever else you have close by that might be difficult to implement. I was genuinely surprised the one trip down to Wembley with the amount of development around it. Considering its supposed to be the crown jewel of English football I do think it loses a little bit of its shine positioned amongst what is essentially a retail park. And perhaps it happens to differ depending on how you approach the stadium but at times you could hardly see the place as you made your way there. Do think that's a great shame. And for sure a combination of factors but all of which should have been considered, anticipated and managed. Hopefully that will be the case now looking ahead. It really did look a mess down there that day.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2021 10:11:33 GMT 1
TALKSport this morning played a recording of someone discussing the incident at the Euro Final and the breach of non-ticket supporters who take drugs as "mostly white affluent males fueling this behavior". Nowt mentioned on this when they cut back to the studio guests. Wow!!! Imagine if he's said black males. #racismonlyworksoneway I think that might be asking a little too much of them considering they didn't call up the anti-Semitism directed at Daniel Levy a short time past... But back on topic, I heard that too...open drug use in the stadium wasn't it? I mean it just sounds absolutely crazy down there that day.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2021 10:29:30 GMT 1
And for sure a combination of factors but all of which should have been considered, anticipated and managed. And that's the the thing which amazed me, they didn't seem to anticipate it or if they did, they certainly didn't manage. They had a warning when we played Scotland, despite pleas not to come down thousands of Scots did and you had lots of drunken people with nowhere to go. In the build up to the final they were still telling people not to travel (I understand that) but surely you can put in contingency measures on the assumption that thousands will ignore that. For example, and I'm not going to pretend to be a security/operations expert but letting thousands of people turn up to Wembley with no match ticket but plenty of beer doesn't seem the smartest of ideas.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2021 10:51:37 GMT 1
And for sure a combination of factors but all of which should have been considered, anticipated and managed. And that's the the thing which amazed me, they didn't seem to anticipate it or if they did, they certainly didn't manage. They had a warning when we played Scotland, despite pleas not to come down thousands of Scots did and you had lots of drunken people with nowhere to go. In the build up to the final they were still telling people not to travel (I understand that) but surely you can put in contingency measures on the assumption that thousands will ignore that. For example, and I'm not going to pretend to be a security/operations expert but letting thousands of people turn up to Wembley with no match ticket but plenty of beer doesn't seem the smartest of ideas. Yeah. Perhaps things weren't as bad on the ground as they appeared to be from the coverage and perhaps the majority didn't have their day spoilt. But being an old fart and a family man my thoughts turn to anyone who may have ventured down there with the kids to enjoy the occasion (a huge occasion) only to be confronted with that...
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Oct 19, 2021 12:23:05 GMT 1
And that's the the thing which amazed me, they didn't seem to anticipate it or if they did, they certainly didn't manage. They had a warning when we played Scotland, despite pleas not to come down thousands of Scots did and you had lots of drunken people with nowhere to go. In the build up to the final they were still telling people not to travel (I understand that) but surely you can put in contingency measures on the assumption that thousands will ignore that. For example, and I'm not going to pretend to be a security/operations expert but letting thousands of people turn up to Wembley with no match ticket but plenty of beer doesn't seem the smartest of ideas. Yeah. Perhaps things weren't as bad on the ground as they appeared to be from the coverage and perhaps the majority didn't have their day spoilt. But being an old fart and a family man my thoughts turn to anyone who may have ventured down there with the kids to enjoy the occasion (a huge occasion) only to be confronted with that... Well you can be 100% sure that the media would have hyped up any situation to make a huge story out of it. They seem to do that with every news item.
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Post by South Stand Salopian on Oct 20, 2021 9:23:01 GMT 1
Sound like the ban won’t be for the Albania World Cup qualifier, it’ll be for a nations league game next year.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 3, 2021 14:04:49 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Dec 3, 2021 14:08:18 GMT 1
TALKSport this morning played a recording of someone discussing the incident at the Euro Final and the breach of non-ticket supporters who take drugs as "mostly white affluent males fueling this behavior". Nowt mentioned on this when they cut back to the studio guests. Wow!!! Imagine if he's said black males. #racismonlyworksoneway Are they wrong though?
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Post by AlisonS on Dec 3, 2021 14:53:21 GMT 1
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 3, 2021 15:31:37 GMT 1
I've read the first two chapters and whilst we always need to remember that no matter how many were involved in the disorder, they are still a minority...but even so, what a depressing read. And again, as I mention above, really do feel for those who had tickets and their kids with them that day. To have been confronted with that...
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Post by Pilch on Dec 3, 2021 19:13:42 GMT 1
so they worked out about 2000 fans got in without a ticket how could they tell ?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 3, 2021 21:22:03 GMT 1
so they worked out about 2000 fans got in without a ticket how could they tell ? From what I gather, from reading part of the report, from looking at the CCTV film. So they can ascertain the numbers of those forcing their way in at any particular time and any particular location for example. And perhaps they can also check the numbers in any one section of the stadium too...
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