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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 20:55:09 GMT 1
And that’s the problem. It’s like league tables in schools - targets all the time. Now this I do agree with. Some “targets” are needed in order to monitor clinical efficiency and ensuring the best outcome for patients, but surely quality indicators are of more benefit really.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Oct 20, 2021 21:53:31 GMT 1
Oops apologies very bad phrasing on my part. I truly didn’t mean all of you who do the actual caring - no one knows better than I how untrue this would be. I meant the people who are sitting in offices making these decisions to temporarily close hospitals like this without a thought of the effects on the actual patients/potential patients and their families. Hope you can accept my apology. Apology accepted, but there are also some really good managers in the NHS, plus some bad ones. I can only assume, rightly or wrongly, they feel that a hospital staffed entirely by agency is unsafe…….I would tend to agree on that one…..I think the question should be why can’t they get permanent staff to work there? It’s a problem across the NHS, caused in the main by this government and their failure to pay what clinical staff deserve and resource trusts well enough to be able to recruit enough staff. I mean the last 18 months have covid have been pretty exhausting for those in health related fields and then before that the government picked several fights with medical staffing bodies where pay demands weren't met, there were training bursaries removed making the professions less attractive to join, reorganisation against advice and also brexit making many staff reluctant to stay / come....
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 20, 2021 23:04:03 GMT 1
Well dunne Mr Dunne. Hold the minister to account. Seems to me that NHS trusts are shouldering government underfunding. But NHS trusts, locals and their MP's all need to jump up and down and demand what is needed.
There is, for example, something very wrong when Shropshire's two main hospitals seem to be expected to cut back services even as the population they are serving continues to increase.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 20, 2021 23:17:56 GMT 1
I'm not sure that Dunne is holding the minister to account on this issue.
One subtext to this is that the chair of the trust is well known in Shropshire as a member of a political party - not the Conservatives.
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Post by neilsalop on Oct 21, 2021 7:01:08 GMT 1
Mental Health beds have drop from 25,503 to 18,182 in the same period.
The only slight increase has come in the amount of Day Beds from 11,121 to 12,812.
The UK population has risen over the same time from around 63m to todays 67.5m and nearly 12m of those are over 65 with that number only forecast to rise, while at the same time the birthrate has dropped (from 1.91 in 2010 to 1.74 in 2017). With the pandemic these figures will obviously be affected to varying degrees.
So with an aging population, fewer babies being born and the future tax implications to take into account the NHS is going to continue to struggle. More and more smaller hospitals will close and the funding will carry on being cut for the larger ones, leading to more people opting to go private for their care. This in turn will lead to a two tier health service and further and deeper privatisation. The NHS will still be there for the poor or for emergencies, but I would imagine that within my lifetime the NHS will become a shadow of its former self.
The NHS accounts for around around 10% of the UKs GDP. Due to the fact that it is almost completely private and there is no price regulation in the US, the healthcare (sic) industry over there is forecast to account for over 20% of the GDP in the next 2 to 3 years.
I have seen people on here and other forums, in conversations and most notably in the media criticise the management structures at hospitals, health trusts, etc, but if there is a constant increase in the amount of patients, the costs of the procedures and treatments and the ongoing care costs without the increased budget to fund that, there will inevitably be shortages of care going forward.
I think I'd better get off my soapbox now and get ready for work.
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Post by Minormorris64 on Oct 21, 2021 8:49:06 GMT 1
I'm not sure that Dunne is holding the minister to account on this issue. One subtext to this is that the chair of the trust is well known in Shropshire as a member of a political party - not the Conservatives. And if he had said nothing Sean what would you be saying now? Dare I say it but you are becoming rather predictable
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 21, 2021 8:54:32 GMT 1
I wasn’t a Philip Dunn’s fan I must admit but, short of training to be a member of staff himself, he has done what is expected of him. I hope he keeps on the case as well.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 21, 2021 8:57:50 GMT 1
Mental Health beds have drop from 25,503 to 18,182 in the same period.
The only slight increase has come in the amount of Day Beds from 11,121 to 12,812.
The UK population has risen over the same time from around 63m to todays 67.5m and nearly 12m of those are over 65 with that number only forecast to rise, while at the same time the birthrate has dropped (from 1.91 in 2010 to 1.74 in 2017). With the pandemic these figures will obviously be affected to varying degrees.
So with an aging population, fewer babies being born and the future tax implications to take into account the NHS is going to continue to struggle. More and more smaller hospitals will close and the funding will carry on being cut for the larger ones, leading to more people opting to go private for their care. This in turn will lead to a two tier health service and further and deeper privatisation. The NHS will still be there for the poor or for emergencies, but I would imagine that within my lifetime the NHS will become a shadow of its former self.
The NHS accounts for around around 10% of the UKs GDP. Due to the fact that it is almost completely private and there is no price regulation in the US, the healthcare (sic) industry over there is forecast to account for over 20% of the GDP in the next 2 to 3 years.
I have seen people on here and other forums, in conversations and most notably in the media criticise the management structures at hospitals, health trusts, etc, but if there is a constant increase in the amount of patients, the costs of the procedures and treatments and the ongoing care costs without the increased budget to fund that, there will inevitably be shortages of care going forward.
I think I'd better get off my soapbox now and get ready for work.
this is no suprise to anyone who works in the nhs but yet again this goverment has ignored a 2017 report highlighting the problem,equally if the uk dont train enough staff to man them then you have a vicious cycle. www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-bed-shortages-hospitals-warning-report-latest-a7973056.html"29 Sept 2017 — A report from the King's Fund found that the health service in England is ... Chart highlights severity of NHS hospital bed shortage crisis .." www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n1753"Between 2010-11 and 2019-20 England’s overall number of NHS hospital beds fell by 11%, from 144 455 to 128 943. The number of available general and acute beds fell by 8%, from 110 568 to 102 194.4 Population growth, ageing, and the accompanying frailty, disability, and multiple long term conditions all drive activity and need in health and social care. Despite a pressing need to tackle health inequalities, socioeconomic deprivation, and wider determinants of preventable non-communicable disease, it’s fanciful to think that we’ll reverse the need for hospital care in the foreseeable future."
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 21, 2021 9:03:10 GMT 1
I wasn’t a Philip Dunn’s fan I must admit but, short of training to be a member of staff himself, he has done what is expected of him. I hope he keeps on the case as well. It’s absolutely pathetic, closed due to staff shortages yet only now talking about formulating a plan to recruit more staff……. Ill say it again, where’s the current adverts that should have been doing this months ago. Negligence in waiting to recruit after the closure
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 21, 2021 9:22:45 GMT 1
I'm not sure that Dunne is holding the minister to account on this issue. One subtext to this is that the chair of the trust is well known in Shropshire as a member of a political party - not the Conservatives. Gets it recorded on Hansard. Maybe even allows the Tories to show they "care" where the chair of the trust who is a member of another political party is slipping. Seems to me to be a lot better than anything the member of parliament for Shrewsbury ever does.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 21, 2021 10:37:43 GMT 1
I'm not sure that Dunne is holding the minister to account on this issue. One subtext to this is that the chair of the trust is well known in Shropshire as a member of a political party - not the Conservatives. Gets it recorded on Hansard. Maybe even allows the Tories to show they "care" where the chair of the trust who is a member of another political party is slipping. Seems to me to be a lot better than anything the member of parliament for Shrewsbury ever does. Low bar that.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 21, 2021 10:41:53 GMT 1
Off topic but interesting information on the BBC website from the West Mids Ambulance Service regarding the delays in had over to Shrewsbury and Telford hospitals. Ambulance crews used to attend 7 incidents per shift, it is now 3. The trust can only send one person to meetings to monitor and clear up the delays. The people of Shropshire are not well-served by the NHS in the county and is is resulting in suffering and deaths.
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Post by armchairfan on Oct 21, 2021 13:39:32 GMT 1
I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of this situation, and have no wish to divert the debate away from the main issue, but I do suggest that the matter is more than just about overall funding of the NHS; the larger hospitals, with the consequential medical and technological investment, will, generally speaking, be easier to staff than the relatively isolated units; any medical professional who aims for career-progression, will inevitably be attracted to those larger, better-equipped hospitals; when one adds into the mix the possibility of higher rates of remuneration, inadequate or not, due to the higher costs associated with urban life, the difficulty of attracting staff is made even worse.
I may be entirely wrong on this, and Matron's view would be welcome, but this general problem certainly existed in my own industry (insurance) many years ago and "London weighting", for example, was always a bone of contention.
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Post by martinshrew on Oct 21, 2021 17:49:16 GMT 1
Could be a bit like our football club, stagnant from the top down, requiring fresh ideas, no leadership?
Again, issues attracting top staff due to be a sleepy town in the middle of nowhere?
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 21, 2021 19:00:51 GMT 1
I don't pretend to understand all the ins and outs of this situation, and have no wish to divert the debate away from the main issue, but I do suggest that the matter is more than just about overall funding of the NHS; the larger hospitals, with the consequential medical and technological investment, will, generally speaking, be easier to staff than the relatively isolated units; any medical professional who aims for career-progression, will inevitably be attracted to those larger, better-equipped hospitals; when one adds into the mix the possibility of higher rates of remuneration, inadequate or not, due to the higher costs associated with urban life, the difficulty of attracting staff is made even worse. I may be entirely wrong on this, and Matron's view would be welcome, but this general problem certainly existed in my own industry (insurance) many years ago and "London weighting", for example, was always a bone of contention. I think some of the high-flyers also like a University/teaching hospitsl with research funding?
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 21, 2021 19:03:32 GMT 1
Could be a bit like our football club, stagnant from the top down, requiring fresh ideas, no leadership? Again, issues attracting top staff due to be a sleepy town in the middle of nowhere? They'll learn! A sleepy town in the middle of nowhere in a job with a national pay rate is a great job with a great life for the kids.
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 21, 2021 19:41:51 GMT 1
I can second that whole heartedly. The best thing I ever did for my children was to move to Shropshire snd send them to our local primary school. They both thrived at secondary school as well.
Bishop’s Castle and the surrounding area has a lot to offer when it comes to quality of life even though I have to admit that public services could do with a boost.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 22, 2021 17:04:21 GMT 1
*IMPORTANT*
There may be grounds for a legal challenge over the closure of Bishop's Castle Hospital according the Shropshire Defend Our NHS.
But they would need a 'straw person' to front this - someone on benefits and eligible for legal aid who lives in Bishops Castle. If it's someone who has used or had a close family member use the hospital, that's even better.
They don't have to do anything at all other than disclose their financial situation to the lawyer. There is also no risk of any sort to them. It is purely and simply about finding a sympathetic person with eligibility for legal aid, which then funds a judicial review.
Message me if you fit the bill or know someone who does.
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Post by davycrockett on Oct 22, 2021 17:54:49 GMT 1
Sean. Not sure how the above would help unless we’re being lied to there’s insufficient staff so would any judgement force it to be opened without sufficient staff?
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 22, 2021 18:00:02 GMT 1
Anyone who fits the bill can discuss that with Gill George and Shropshire Defend our NHS.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Oct 22, 2021 18:22:02 GMT 1
Sean. Not sure how the above would help unless we’re being lied to there’s insufficient staff so would any judgement force it to be opened without sufficient staff? I guess it will focus upon the "temporary closure" without there being a timetable for its reopening and the news that people are being redeployed away from BC. All that is needed is one person currently on UC who lives in BC.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 27, 2021 12:30:03 GMT 1
Boris in PMQ;s "We are undergoing the biggest hospital building programme in a generation". Your Shropshire MPs need to jump up and down a bit more to get some of this funding, not fight over facilities being in Telford OR Shrewsbury.
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Post by martinshrew on Oct 28, 2021 20:10:22 GMT 1
I can second that whole heartedly. The best thing I ever did for my children was to move to Shropshire snd send them to our local primary school. They both thrived at secondary school as well. Bishop’s Castle and the surrounding area has a lot to offer when it comes to quality of life even though I have to admit that public services could do with a boost. I quite agree, it's an incredible place Shropshire for a variety of reasons. Education, housing, air quality, countryside, transport links are reasonable. Just many don't realise it, though long may that continue to be honest!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 20:34:35 GMT 1
On the subject of getting staff for rural based health services, my mum was telling me this morning that the GP practice back home in Tywyn is struggling to both retain and recruit both practice nurses and GPs and it has know become of serious concern. The remaining GPs have had to take on an increased number of patients, many of whom are elderly with co-morbidities. As a follow up, my mum has today received a letter from the local health board advising her that the remaining Practice GPs had given notice and that their last day will be the 31st March next year. My mum is naturally concerned should they not be able to get replacements as the nearest GP practice is in Dolgellau, 20 miles away. My mum of course is not alone as the current practice must have a list size of in excess of 3000.
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 28, 2021 20:41:59 GMT 1
That is awful news. I do hope something can be sorted - 20 miles is a long way to travel for a doctor at any age, for someone elderly it must be very worrying.
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Post by staffordshrew on Oct 28, 2021 20:52:33 GMT 1
That is awful news. I do hope something can be sorted - 20 miles is a long way to travel for a doctor at any age, for someone elderly it must be very worrying. If I was a doctor looking for a job I would think Tywyn = seaside = a nice billet on a GP's pay. Though "The remaining GPs have had to take on an increased number of patients, many of whom are elderly with co-morbidities" would be a cause for concern.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 28, 2021 21:01:32 GMT 1
That is awful news. I do hope something can be sorted - 20 miles is a long way to travel for a doctor at any age, for someone elderly it must be very worrying. Public transport between the 2 towns is not brilliant. As my mum said, the hospital community car is going to be booked solid. The problem in accessing health and social care services was one of the reasons I decided not to retire back to Tywyn.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 29, 2021 7:33:59 GMT 1
On the subject of getting staff for rural based health services, my mum was telling me this morning that the GP practice back home in Tywyn is struggling to both retain and recruit both practice nurses and GPs and it has know become of serious concern. The remaining GPs have had to take on an increased number of patients, many of whom are elderly with co-morbidities. As a follow up, my mum has today received a letter from the local health board advising her that the remaining Practice GPs had given notice and that their last day will be the 31st March next year. My mum is naturally concerned should they not be able to get replacements as the nearest GP practice is in Dolgellau, 20 miles away. My mum of course is not alone as the current practice must have a list size of in excess of 3000. im sorry to hear this it is awfull news.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Nov 23, 2021 1:08:33 GMT 1
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 23, 2021 1:55:00 GMT 1
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