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Post by venceremos on Jun 1, 2021 13:26:38 GMT 1
Noting the thread on the Oxfordshire outdoor smoking ban, the Birmingham Clean Air Zone came into operation today, although charging has been deferred for a couple of weeks. Bath already has one.
Checking the government website, it doesn't seem especially stringent. Modern diesels and an 11 year old petrol-engined Honda came through with no charge. The onus is clearly on encouraging less polluting vehicles or greater use of public transport - not to mention a bit more walking or cycling.
I'm in favour. Birmingham suffers badly from air pollution with the motorway network around (and through) it and Bath city centre sits in a valley with hills all around it. We need to reduce pollution levels and the numbers of deaths and illnesses associated with them.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2021 13:37:33 GMT 1
It has it's problems, the main one being how to get those who can only afford an old car able to change up or have attractive suitable alternative public transport.
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Jun 1, 2021 13:39:21 GMT 1
How would people feel about something like this being introduced in Shrewsbury? Air pollution is at illegal levels in some parts of town, around the train station in particular.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 1, 2021 13:46:22 GMT 1
How would people feel about something like this being introduced in Shrewsbury? Air pollution is at illegal levels in some parts of town, around the train station in particular.
The Shrewsbury to Birmingham line electrification is being considered, that what cut some smelly diesel fumes from around the station.
However, Shrewsbury council does not seem to be in favour of the NW relief road, so they don't seem to be too bothered about reducing polution in the centre of Shrewsbury.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 1, 2021 14:01:50 GMT 1
How would people feel about something like this being introduced in Shrewsbury? Air pollution is at illegal levels in some parts of town, around the train station in particular. I suspect it will happen eventually in every sizeable town and city. Birmingham City Council said it would be fined £60m if it didn't introduce the clean air zone, so it's easy to imagine that being the case elsewhere and spreading to those urban areas not yet facing punishment for pollution. I'm in favour - this pollution kills people, after all - but it needs to be part of an integrated transport policy for the town, with some seriously imaginative thinking going into that.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 1, 2021 14:04:02 GMT 1
I has it's problems, the main one being how to get those who can only afford an old car able to change up or have attractive suitable alternative public transport. It can't be that big a problem. If a 2009 Honda Civic wouldn't be charged, anyone who already has a car can afford to change to something less polluting than their current vehicle. Public health has to be the priority.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Jun 1, 2021 14:07:55 GMT 1
Shrewsbury town centre would be s attractive without motor vehicles. A network of park and ride ringing the town with fleets of electric busses and taxis to bring people into the centre?
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 1, 2021 16:13:36 GMT 1
Shrewsbury town centre would be s attractive without motor vehicles. A network of park and ride ringing the town with fleets of electric busses and taxis to bring people into the centre? You're talking about Shrewsbury Town right? Maybe by 2051 we might see some forward thinking; 2021 and we're still stuck in the past!
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Post by vladimir on Jun 1, 2021 16:18:40 GMT 1
How would people feel about something like this being introduced in Shrewsbury? Air pollution is at illegal levels in some parts of town, around the train station in particular.
The Shrewsbury to Birmingham line electrification is being considered, that what cut some smelly diesel fumes from around the station.
However, Shrewsbury council does not seem to be in favour of the NW relief road, so they don't seem to be too bothered about reducing polution in the centre of Shrewsbury.
The fact that the Shrewsbury to Birmingham route whilst being totally free of any level crossings or notable obstacles is not electrified sums up multiple governments approach to rail investment over the last 20 years.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2021 17:07:51 GMT 1
Not sure if folks know how these things work?
As a victim of the London zone you don’t get notified if you’ve entered it’s up to you to know and pay the charge before you get a reminder at which time its gone up from £100 to £500!
I was on holiday in a rather old motor home and stayed the night near Brentwood on the way to Folkestone. Went to the local supermarket but there was a height restriction so on advice went 3 miles to Tesco’s where I could park. I noticed a sign saying use M25 to avoid toll but had no idea where the zone was. When I got back to Brentwood I thought I’d check to find the Tesco’s was a few hundred yards in the zone.
You can’t check if you owe money, tried to call to find out you simply have to pay if you think you should but a mistake costs £500!
Not sure how the Birmingham one works.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jun 1, 2021 17:14:23 GMT 1
I dont need any excuse to keep well away from London, norindeed Birmingham or any other big city. I dont go to either unless I absolutely have to, and driving there would be a No No
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Post by Pilch on Jun 1, 2021 17:33:32 GMT 1
Noting the thread on the Oxfordshire outdoor smoking ban, the Birmingham Clean Air Zone came into operation today, although charging has been deferred for a couple of weeks. Bath already has one. Checking the government website, it doesn't seem especially stringent. Modern diesels and an 11 year old petrol-engined Honda came through with no charge. The onus is clearly on encouraging less polluting vehicles or greater use of public transport - not to mention a bit more walking or cycling. I'm in favour. Birmingham suffers badly from air pollution with the motorway network around (and through) it and Bath city centre sits in a valley with hills all around it. We need to reduce pollution levels and the numbers of deaths and illnesses associated with them. just reminded me, I took this pic on my phone on 23rd may I think its the chap in charge of this clean air scheme I thought it was rather amusing to see his monitor burning away behind him Attachments:
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2021 17:36:55 GMT 1
I dont need any excuse to keep well away from London, norindeed Birmingham or any other big city. I dont go to either unless I absolutely have to, and driving there would be a No No I was 27 miles from central London…. It’s a big place to get from Norfolk to Kent you can’t help it
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Post by barrynic on Jun 1, 2021 17:36:56 GMT 1
I am glad I drive a euro 6 diesel which is very clean.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2021 17:45:39 GMT 1
I am glad I drive a euro 6 diesel which is very clean. That’s good as long as you don’t fly your doing a good job 👍
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Post by barrynic on Jun 1, 2021 17:50:59 GMT 1
Would love to fly....but I think its out of the question for a while.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 1, 2021 17:55:43 GMT 1
With one car 14 years old and another car 28 years old I may not be driving to the next Wembley final we go to.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2021 18:04:23 GMT 1
Would love to fly....but I think its out of the question for a while. But it would ruin all the good work driving a low emission car.
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Post by davycrockett on Jun 1, 2021 18:05:32 GMT 1
With one car 14 years old and another car 28 years old I may not be driving to the next Wembley final we go to. Don’t go to Wimbledon away so the zone is everywhere within the M25
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Post by barrynic on Jun 1, 2021 18:18:42 GMT 1
Would love to fly....but I think its out of the question for a while. But it would ruin all the good work driving a low emission car. If the z list so-called influencers can fly I'm bloody sure I will..not sure where though. .....and stuff my silicon bum print.
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Post by vladimir on Jun 1, 2021 20:01:27 GMT 1
Whilst being a fan in principal of efforts to improve the environment some things really are quite bizarre with this scheme.
First off despite the tech to pick up plates using ANPR there is no way of checking or no alert system via text or email to tell you if your car has entered a zone. Second your visit can count twice if say entering at 6pm and leaving after midnight. This will absolutely savage low income workers with old cars and push traffic into areas skirting the charging area.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 1, 2021 21:41:20 GMT 1
Not sure if folks know how these things work? As a victim of the London zone you don’t get notified if you’ve entered it’s up to you to know and pay the charge before you get a reminder at which time its gone up from £100 to £500! I was on holiday in a rather old motor home and stayed the night near Brentwood on the way to Folkestone. Went to the local supermarket but there was a height restriction so on advice went 3 miles to Tesco’s where I could park. I noticed a sign saying use M25 to avoid toll but had no idea where the zone was. When I got back to Brentwood I thought I’d check to find the Tesco’s was a few hundred yards in the zone. You can’t check if you owe money, tried to call to find out you simply have to pay if you think you should but a mistake costs £500! Not sure how the Birmingham one works. Similar to the Mersey Gateway Bridge at Runcorn. You don't pay as you cross but can pay £2 for a car in advance or afterwards - but afterwards means before midnight the day after you crossed! If you miss it, the penalty starts at £20 and keeps rising.
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Post by servernaside on Jun 3, 2021 19:11:08 GMT 1
This is local politicians doing what they do best....playing politics.
These rules disrupt, or more accurately, tax people's lives in the name of 'the environment'.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Jun 4, 2021 2:57:17 GMT 1
The cost of train travel is more on the service users than used to be the case. Train travel is also, generally, less convenient than road travel - for instance tickets may not be available if the decision to travel is at the last minute, and, unless you're willing to restrict your options for when you make the return journey, a ticket can be extraordinarily expensive. So, by this logic, travel by car should be made more expensive.
But simply pricing people out of travelling is no way forward - whether it is done through taxes or a service provider putting its prices up.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 4, 2021 13:08:16 GMT 1
This is local politicians doing what they do best....playing politics. These rules disrupt, or more accurately, tax people's lives in the name of 'the environment'. Except if they don't do it, the government will fine them. Take it up with your glorious leader. And politicians playing politics - isn't that like footballers playing football, or messageboard witterers wittering on messageboards?
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Post by servernaside on Jun 4, 2021 15:31:06 GMT 1
This is local politicians doing what they do best....playing politics. These rules disrupt, or more accurately, tax people's lives in the name of 'the environment'. Except if they don't do it, the government will fine them. Take it up with your glorious leader. And politicians playing politics - isn't that like footballers playing football, or messageboard witterers wittering on messageboards? It is not as yet compulsory for urban areas to implement clean air zones, in fact some local authorities have refused to implement them.
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Post by pughywasfree on Jun 4, 2021 17:34:47 GMT 1
These incentives are all well and good on the face of it but where is the money going? If it isn't going towards making cleaner cars cheaper then its a massive scam.
It will never sit right with me that the powers that be change a rule/situation and then charge people because of said change.
People that have cleaner cars pay cheaper tax. That is the method we should be going down.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Jun 4, 2021 21:45:27 GMT 1
These incentives are all well and good on the face of it but where is the money going? If it isn't going towards making cleaner cars cheaper then its a massive scam. It will never sit right with me that the powers that be change a rule/situation and then charge people because of said change. People that have cleaner cars pay cheaper tax. That is the method we should be going down. Tbh, Birmingham has a cultural problem with people not wanting to ditch their cars. There's plenty of decent public transport options to get you into Brum, most of which are less hassle (as a regular commuter to the city pre pandemic I'd drive to Shifnal or Wellington, park for free and get a relatively cheap, quick train in to New Street). The number of colleagues i have who live actually in the city itself but still drive to work and park despite the two cross city lines, trans and buses is baffling tbh. I can see why they're doing this.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 4, 2021 22:47:51 GMT 1
Except if they don't do it, the government will fine them. Take it up with your glorious leader. And politicians playing politics - isn't that like footballers playing football, or messageboard witterers wittering on messageboards? It is not as yet compulsory for urban areas to implement clean air zones, in fact some local authorities have refused to implement them. "The Government has said that Birmingham needs a Clean Air Zone and that we need to reduce levels of NO2 in the air to a maximum average of 40μg/m3 as soon as possible." DEFRA/Dept for Transport 'UK plan for tackling roadside nitrogen dioxide concentrations': "we will require those local plans to be developed and implemented at pace so that air quality limits are achieved within the shortest possible time" "the UK government has identified Clean Air Zones that include charging as the measure it is able to model nationally which will achieve statutory NO2 limit values in towns and cities in the shortest possible time" "We will require local authorities to develop local plans and implement them at pace so that air quality limits are achieved within the shortest possible time." "The UK government continues to expect local authorities in the five cities named above [this includes Birmingham] to deliver their Clean Air Zones by the end of 2019, with a view to achieving statutory NO2 limit values within the shortest possible time, which the latest assessment indicates will be in 2020."
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Post by staffordshrew on Jun 7, 2021 21:17:47 GMT 1
I has it's problems, the main one being how to get those who can only afford an old car able to change up or have attractive suitable alternative public transport. It can't be that big a problem. If a 2009 Honda Civic wouldn't be charged, anyone who already has a car can afford to change to something less polluting than their current vehicle. Public health has to be the priority. So why bother with the charge for cars if hardly any of them incur the charge? Stick with lorries, coaches, commercial stuff.
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