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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2022 11:18:03 GMT 1
The Guardian always forgets that we live in an overwhelmingly white country (87%), so the demographics of the Conservative Party merely reflect that. Quelle surprise. So what's your rationale for them being representative, when the vast majority of them are male, and half are over 60? I think you would do well to look on the opposition benches for a truly unrepresentative party. |
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Post by wookeywombat on Jul 12, 2022 11:23:16 GMT 1
So what's your rationale for them being representative, when the vast majority of them are male, and half are over 60? I think you would do well to look on the opposition benches for a truly unrepresentative party. Enlighten me or is that just another of your sweeping generalisations without any substance whatsoever. |
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 12, 2022 12:03:16 GMT 1
Shapps has pulled out and is behind Sunak. As is Raab and a growing number of others.
There's twists and turns yet.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2022 12:29:53 GMT 1
Shapps has pulled out and is behind Sunak. As is Raab and a growing number of others. There's twists and turns yet. I’m no Sunak fan and he’s clearly playing the game with his comments on Johnson etc, but he at least seems like he’s being honest around his financial policies. Whereas others that have never made it anywhere near Number 11 can promise the earth. Looking increasingly to me like Sunak, Mordaunt, Truss and Tugenhadt have the momentum currently. |
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Post by Pilch on Jul 12, 2022 12:38:07 GMT 1
ladies and gents slow news day in action 😜 |
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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2022 13:29:23 GMT 1
I think you would do well to look on the opposition benches for a truly unrepresentative party. Enlighten me or is that just another of your sweeping generalisations without any substance whatsoever. Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background. Sweeping enough for you? |
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2022 13:40:43 GMT 1
Enlighten me or is that just another of your sweeping generalisations without any substance whatsoever. Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background. Sweeping enough for you? The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65. So it depends how much you wish to manipulate the statistics I guess. |
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Post by block12massive on Jul 12, 2022 13:52:25 GMT 1
Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background. Sweeping enough for you? The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65. So it depends how much you wish to manipulate the statistics I guess. 41 non white MPs out of 200 = 20% 5 non white MPs out of 32 in the shadow cabinet = 12% Seems you're far less likely to get a shadow cabinet gig if you're from an ethnic minority background. If you're into that sort of thing of course. I suggest we avoid the de-humanising 'X' and 'O' labels altogether to be honest. |
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2022 14:28:27 GMT 1
No one pays much attention to John Major nowadays, as he's effectively been non-platformed by social media. Nevertheless, he's making some salient points here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/12/cabinet-did-nothing-while-johnson-damaged-uks-reputation-says-majorMembers of Boris Johnson’s cabinet failed to speak up while the prime minister spent years damaging democracy at home and the UK’s reputation abroad, John Major has told MPs. He added: “What has been done in the last three years has damaged our country at home and overseas, and I think has damaged the reputation of parliament as well. “The blame for these lapses must lie principally, but not only, with the prime minister. But many in his cabinet are culpable too and so are those outside the cabinet who cheered him on.” In remarks that are likely to be taken as pointed criticism of senior Tories, including some of the current hopefuls in his party’s leadership race, he added: “They were silent when they should have spoken out and spoke out only when their silence became self damaging.” Earlier, he said that “the whole country” knew that the government had broken the law in what he described as a “litany” of ways: unlawfully trying to prorogue parliament, ignoring a nationwide lockdown by breaking its own laws in Downing Street and trying change laws to “protect one of their own”. This was not an exclusive list, he added. |
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jul 12, 2022 14:35:48 GMT 1
No one pays much attention to John Major nowadays, as he's effectively been non-platformed by social media. Nevertheless, he's making some salient points here: www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/12/cabinet-did-nothing-while-johnson-damaged-uks-reputation-says-majorMembers of Boris Johnson’s cabinet failed to speak up while the prime minister spent years damaging democracy at home and the UK’s reputation abroad, John Major has told MPs. He added: “What has been done in the last three years has damaged our country at home and overseas, and I think has damaged the reputation of parliament as well. “The blame for these lapses must lie principally, but not only, with the prime minister. But many in his cabinet are culpable too and so are those outside the cabinet who cheered him on.” In remarks that are likely to be taken as pointed criticism of senior Tories, including some of the current hopefuls in his party’s leadership race, he added: “They were silent when they should have spoken out and spoke out only when their silence became self damaging.” Earlier, he said that “the whole country” knew that the government had broken the law in what he described as a “litany” of ways: unlawfully trying to prorogue parliament, ignoring a nationwide lockdown by breaking its own laws in Downing Street and trying change laws to “protect one of their own”. This was not an exclusive list, he added. Quite right. excellent piece from Matthew Syed in Sunday Times attacking the candidates who state they want to restore integrity, but they are the very ones who failed to hold Boris to account until the very last minute. |
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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2022 14:39:01 GMT 1
Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background. Sweeping enough for you? The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65. So it depends how much you wish to manipulate the statistics I guess. I guess the question is, how many of those non-whites made it anywhere near the front benches? See my previous comment for the answer. In the meantime, I'll leave you to your manipulations. |
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Post by wookeywombat on Jul 12, 2022 15:22:52 GMT 1
The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65. So it depends how much you wish to manipulate the statistics I guess. I guess the question is, how many of those non-whites made it anywhere near the front benches? See my previous comment for the answer. In the meantime, I'll leave you to your manipulations. It seems strange to me that you alone brought ethnicity into your argument when fair/equal representation means much more than that as witnessed by the make up of the Conservative party membership who will be voting in the new PM. |
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 12, 2022 15:31:38 GMT 1
Never understood why race matters, I just want to best available doing the best jobs.
If they're all white, great.
If they're all of colour, great.
If they're all LGBTQ+, great.
If they're all women, great.
As long as they're the best talent available, I couldn't care a **** about tick box exercises and representation.
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Post by shrewder on Jul 12, 2022 15:41:48 GMT 1
Never understood why race matters, I just want to best available doing the best jobs. If they're all white, great. If they're all of colour, great. If they're all LGBTQ+, great. If they're all women, great. As long as they're the best talent available, I couldn't care a **** about tick box exercises and representation. Exactly. The biggest danger of box ticking is that sometimes the best person for a position is overlooked. |
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2022 19:06:24 GMT 1
I'd put money on whichever candidate appoints Gavin Williamson as their campaign manager, as he's already been successful twice with May and Johnson. Useless as a Cabinet Minister, but an absolute master of the dark arts when campaigning for others. Williamson is on Team Rishi, and it looks like he's already up to his usual subterfuge. Allegedly, Gavin Willamson has organised syphoning off of some of Sunak's votes to let Jeremy Hunt get over the threshold. "This is dirty tricks/a stitch up/dark arts. Take your pick. Team Rishi want the candidate they know they can definitely beat in the final two and that is Jeremy Hunt". (Nadine Dorries). This is exactly what happened when Williamson was working as Johnson's campaign manager. Some of the votes for Johnson were syphoned off to Hunt so as to knock Michael Gove out as Gove was regarded as more of a threat. That left Johnson and Hunt as the final two. Gavin Williamson is lethal when being given the responsibility for proxy votes. There are also strong rumours among MPs that as Truss is seen as eminently beatable in the final two that Sunak’s team may “lend” her his spare votes to ensure a head-to-head (as Johnson’s team allegedly lent Hunt votes in 2019 to edge out Michael Gove). |
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 12, 2022 19:41:13 GMT 1
And all this while they are still being paid to look after us and the country. I’m amazed they’ve got the time!
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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2022 19:51:09 GMT 1
I guess the question is, how many of those non-whites made it anywhere near the front benches? See my previous comment for the answer. In the meantime, I'll leave you to your manipulations. It seems strange to me that you alone brought ethnicity into your argument when fair/equal representation means much more than that as witnessed by the make up of the Conservative party membership who will be voting in the new PM. 'I alone' ?? I think you'll find that it was Northwestman who linked an article from The Guardian..(who else?) on this thread, which made the statement that Conservative MP's were unrepresentative because they were almost exclusively white. As always, you have once again failed to do your homework before spouting off......or is that 'making sweeping statements' Take your pick. |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 12, 2022 19:56:48 GMT 1
Don't think it will be Truss, she's upset too many people in the past, is Boris tainted and has gone a bit wild about tax cuts - pulled the rug right out from whoever might be Chancellor under her who would have to implement those cuts, probably in an emergency budget. The Block12massive tip, Badenach was it, is untainted by Boris, has more sense than Truss and might well take the right wing place. Looks like boring old Sunak will win, but those party members throw a curve ball sometimes.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2022 20:08:42 GMT 1
It seems strange to me that you alone brought ethnicity into your argument when fair/equal representation means much more than that as witnessed by the make up of the Conservative party membership who will be voting in the new PM. 'I alone' ?? I think you'll find that it was Northwestman who linked an article from The Guardian..(who else?) on this thread, which made the statement that Conservative MP's were unrepresentative because they were almost exclusively white. As always, you have once again failed to do your homework before spouting off......or is that 'making sweeping statements' Take your pick. That Guardian article said nothing of the kind. It referred to the Conservative MEMBERSHIP, which is 97% white, predominantly male and from the south, and with half over 60. It's you who stated: "Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background". Whereas I pointed out the following: "The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65". |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 12, 2022 20:14:43 GMT 1
I'd put money on whichever candidate appoints Gavin Williamson as their campaign manager, as he's already been successful twice with May and Johnson. Useless as a Cabinet Minister, but an absolute master of the dark arts when campaigning for others. Williamson is on Team Rishi, and it looks like he's already up to his usual subterfuge. Allegedly, Gavin Willamson has organised syphoning off of some of Sunak's votes to let Jeremy Hunt get over the threshold. "This is dirty tricks/a stitch up/dark arts. Take your pick. Team Rishi want the candidate they know they can definitely beat in the final two and that is Jeremy Hunt". (Nadine Dorries). This is exactly what happened when Williamson was working as Johnson's campaign manager. Some of the votes for Johnson were syphoned off to Hunt so as to knock Michael Gove out as Gove was regarded as more of a threat. That left Johnson and Hunt as the final two. Gavin Williamson is lethal when being given the responsibility for proxy votes. There are also strong rumours among MPs that as Truss is seen as eminently beatable in the final two that Sunak’s team may “lend” her his spare votes to ensure a head-to-head (as Johnson’s team allegedly lent Hunt votes in 2019 to edge out Michael Gove). Nadine came up with that intelligent comment? I don't believe it! |
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Post by northwestman on Jul 12, 2022 20:35:29 GMT 1
Williamson owes his entire (failed) Ministerial career to being PPS to Cameron, and then campaign manager to both May and Johnson.
He clearly now sees another opportunity by ingratiating himself with Sunak, no doubt expecting the reward of yet another Ministerial post if Sunak wins the contest. He will undoubtedly employ whatever dark arts he deems to be necessary to successfully get Sunak over the line.
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 12, 2022 20:42:02 GMT 1
I can't wait for fast-forward until there's a new leader, absolutely nothing will change on this thread 😂
Gets embarrassing after a while.
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Post by servernaside on Jul 12, 2022 20:58:56 GMT 1
'I alone' ?? I think you'll find that it was Northwestman who linked an article from The Guardian..(who else?) on this thread, which made the statement that Conservative MP's were unrepresentative because they were almost exclusively white. As always, you have once again failed to do your homework before spouting off......or is that 'making sweeping statements' Take your pick. That Guardian article said nothing of the kind. It referred to the Conservative MEMBERSHIP, which is 97% white, predominantly male and from the south, and with half over 60. It's you who stated: "Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background". Whereas I pointed out the following: "The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65". You are quite correct, the article stated that Conservative Party membership was almost exclusively white. However, the article does mention ethnicity within the Conservatives which is the point I was making. i.e. i did not raise the matter in the first place. It does raise an even more interesting question however. Are you and Wookeywombat joined at the hip, or even perhaps married, as you always seem to answer each other's questions and comments? Then again, there is the possibility that you are the same person, an alter-ego perhaps. |
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Post by wookeywombat on Jul 12, 2022 22:44:00 GMT 1
That Guardian article said nothing of the kind. It referred to the Conservative MEMBERSHIP, which is 97% white, predominantly male and from the south, and with half over 60. It's you who stated: "Labour's current shadow cabinet currently comprises 32 individuals, only five of whom could be considered as coming from a minority background". Whereas I pointed out the following: "The 2019 election saw 22 non-white Conservatives, 41 Labour and 2 Lib Dems elected to the House of Commons, a total of 65". You are quite correct, the article stated that Conservative Party membership was almost exclusively white. However, the article does mention ethnicity within the Conservatives which is the point I was making. i.e. i did not raise the matter in the first place. It does raise an even more interesting question however. Are you and Wookeywombat joined at the hip, or even perhaps married, as you always seem to answer each other's questions and comments? Then again, there is the possibility that you are the same person, an alter-ego perhaps. Talk about me doing my homework? I repeat it was you that mentioned race alone and I pointed out that there were other things in the article. Then we get a crude attempt at covering up your tracks by sledging. |
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Post by Pilch on Jul 12, 2022 23:05:09 GMT 1
was watching earlier and the guy that looks like an alien from Salems lot, he is saying all the right things, but I don't like it, looks so fake and false, spoke about him last week, he's kissing too much arse and its embarrassing, forget the MPs speak past them to the nation to me and you, its us that matters chap Vamp has obviously read B&A and seen the light ;-)   |
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 13, 2022 8:43:01 GMT 1
Is his right ear for real??
Was Priti not able to find 20 people willing to nominate her?
Will the next PM put Priti and Nadine on the backbenches?
All this and more will be answered in the following episodes....
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Post by kenwood on Jul 13, 2022 10:36:18 GMT 1
Is his right ear for real?? Was Priti not able to find 20 people willing to nominate her? Will the next PM put Priti and Nadine on the backbenches? All this and more will be answered in the following episodes.... I’m hoping that the next GE will see Priti and Nadine nowhere near the backbenches 😉 |
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Post by northwestman on Jul 13, 2022 10:39:40 GMT 1
Tory leadership contender Nadhim Zahawi has said he would be prepared to offer Boris Johnson a seat in Cabinet if he wins the race for No 10.
The Chancellor told LBC Radio: “Boris Johnson is a friend of mine of 30 years. If he wishes to serve in Cabinet, I would certainly offer him a job.
“He has been probably the most consequential Prime Minister of his generation. He has delivered Brexit.”
Surely that's Zahawi finished. Presumably a pathetic attempt to get Johnson supporters like Rees Mogg and Dorries onside.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 13, 2022 10:46:29 GMT 1
Tory leadership contender Nadhim Zahawi has said he would be prepared to offer Boris Johnson a seat in Cabinet if he wins the race for No 10. The Chancellor told LBC Radio: “Boris Johnson is a friend of mine of 30 years. If he wishes to serve in Cabinet, I would certainly offer him a job. “He has been probably the most consequential Prime Minister of his generation. He has delivered Brexit.” Surely that's Zahawi finished. Presumably a pathetic attempt to get Johnson supporters like Rees Mogg and Dorries onside. He's certainly blotted his copybook somewhat with this Nadim Zahawi supporter.... |
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Post by kenwood on Jul 13, 2022 10:57:56 GMT 1
I see Dorries and Ian Dunkin Doughnut have both lined up behind Truss .
Hopefully that’s the kiss of death if these two fools are amongst your staunchest allies .
Zahawi has probably p**sed on his chips by his comment re Johnson , God , they’ve just got rid of him and the fool would have him back in his cabinet. That’s bound to turn out for the best !
Please not Braverman , she’s incompetent and a liar .
Penny or “ I’ve been in the Army , “ Tom look to be quite decent compared to the other chancers . How can any Tory vote for the ex Chancellor is beyond me , he’s got too much baggage hanging off him and the others aren’t worth thinking about imo .
Either way we are going to be in the s**te for a while yet. No “ Sunlit Uplands for us “.
? Why is Grant Shapps such a t**t , one of life’s great mysteries . Why is he anywhere near Government , he’s on a par with that other waste of space Williamson .
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