|
Post by Exkeeper on Nov 14, 2020 11:59:41 GMT 1
As I keep saying to friends who keep telling me there's major fraud and evidence, if it's that obvious it'll be easily overturned. I don't think it will for the record. I've heard there's evidence of: - 60 - 96% turnout change - Trump votes dumped - 125 year old people voting Not seen any evidence, and to be honest I don't expect to. They lost, move on. This. If it was a single state he lost by and there was evidence of wrongdoing you may say he has an argument. But he has lost by numerous states \ electoral college votes. Leave with dignity and accept defeat. Donald Trump and dignity do not belong in the same sentence.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 14, 2020 12:11:01 GMT 1
A coalition of state and federal agencies has declared the election “the most secure in American history”.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 14, 2020 12:47:18 GMT 1
The whole thing is a really interesting study in misinformation though.
Depending on where you get your information it's either definitely a fraud or that just isn't credible, and the two sides are increasingly detached as Trump supporters on both sides of the Atlantic flee to thrir safe spaces on Parler and Newsmax. In the so called information age it's getting increasingly hard to tell the wood from the trees.
The conspiracy theories keep popping up faster than the debunkers can play whack a mole with them. First we had "sharpiegate", then Benford's Law, then dead people voting. All demonstrably horses**t but the grifters just shift to the next thing; watermarked ballots verified on the blockchain, latest is the apparrent "raid" on some software company offices in Frankfurt.
Bewildering to be honest, and Trump's willingness to court and even spread this stuff himself just proves why he had to go.
It's a worry though. I don't believe Trump believes any of this for a second. I do believe he knows he can foster a sense of grievance and victim mentality for the next 4 years amongst his acolytes that will keep the campaign money rolling in and make himself a kingmaker for the next election.
|
|
|
Post by tdk on Nov 14, 2020 15:18:37 GMT 1
Meantime, hidden in the small print, the donations he receives to fight the fraud can be used to pay his election expenses
|
|
|
Post by shrewder on Nov 14, 2020 15:33:59 GMT 1
Donald Trumps mantra is if you tell an untruth enough times, eventually people will believe it to be true.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 14, 2020 15:44:36 GMT 1
I have a feeling that if all the cheating is taken into account, such as voter suppression, it would be the Trump side who were the real cheats. Maybe Trump thinks everyone's morals are as lax as his?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 15:47:52 GMT 1
Donald Trumps mantra is if you tell an untruth enough times, eventually people will believe it to be true. Close, but you’ve missed out “the really thick and gullible”👍
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Nov 14, 2020 16:32:20 GMT 1
Meantime, hidden in the small print, the donations he receives to fight the fraud can be used to pay his election expenses That’s a much more pertinent point than any talk of Trump hoping to retain political influence. He’s finished politically but the menace of the far right remains in US politics. A couple of QAnon camp followers were apparently elected to Congress last week. We can all do without that idiocy getting a foothold.
|
|
|
Post by zenfootball2 on Nov 14, 2020 21:27:14 GMT 1
Meantime, hidden in the small print, the donations he receives to fight the fraud can be used to pay his election expenses That’s a much more pertinent point than any talk of Trump hoping to retain political influence. He’s finished politically but the menace of the far right remains in US politics. A couple of QAnon camp followers were apparently elected to Congress last week. We can all do without that idiocy getting a foothold. "A couple of QAnon camp followers were apparently elected to Congress last week. We can all do without that idiocy getting a foothold." i find that depressing and alarming
|
|
|
Post by neilsalop on Nov 14, 2020 21:46:51 GMT 1
There is a lot of talk about Trump being some kind of 'king maker' in 2024 and that is actually quite disturbing. Unless he is totally discredited by the courts or found guilty of at least some crimes he is still going to be a major player in 4 years.
If Trump is still on the scene in 4 years time does anyone really think that GOP aren't going to use his reach to further their own ends and more importantly him using them to further his? The Democrats need to bury him so deep in litigation so that he doesn't have the time to get involved in politics again.
They need to keep Trump in court every day until he is convicted or until he loses every ounce of credibility. Not his team of lawyers, but Trump himself and his offspring. Sue them in every courthouse, for anything and everything. Ruin them in the court of public opinion.
The GOP have being playing dirty for the last 3 presidential terms while the Democrats have tried to play fair. Well it's time for them to get down and dirty and beat the GOP at their own game. No more of this going high when they go low bollox, if they hit below the belt the Dems. need to hit back harder and lower.
When the GOP call the Dems. socialists, they need to hit back by calling them fascists, white supremacists, racists, homophobes, misogynists and every other name that will stick.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 14, 2020 23:38:06 GMT 1
But he can still fool some of the people all of the time - People actually on the streets today in Washington with banners proclaiming "Stop the steal".
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 15, 2020 9:27:12 GMT 1
I would very surprised if Trump runs again in 2024 and whilst I'm sure the Republicans are unhappy at losing this election, it didn't turn out to be as bad as people first thought it would be. Trump is gone for sure but although they still trail in the House, they made gains. All eyes on Georgia in January with the two Senate spots up for grabs. That will be huge. But the predicated "Blue wave" simply didn't happen and despite winning the election, that will be a concern for the Democrats. And they do seem to be waking up to why...
Trump is divisive like no one who has gone before him but I'll wager he won't play a part in 2024. The divisive people and movements around the Democrats however, I think will still be around. And I do think that will hurt them.
But all eyes now to Georgia.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 15, 2020 10:18:20 GMT 1
I would very surprised if Trump runs again in 2024 and whilst I'm sure the Republicans are unhappy at losing this election, it didn't turn out to be as bad as people first thought it would be. Trump is gone for sure but although they still trail in the House, they made gains. All eyes on Georgia in January with the two Senate spots up for grabs. That will be huge. But the predicated "Blue wave" simply didn't happen and despite winning the election, that will be a concern for the Democrats. And they do seem to be waking up to why... Trump is divisive like no one who has gone before him but I'll wager he won't play a part in 2024. The divisive people and movements around the Democrats however, I think will still be around. And I do think that will hurt them. But all eyes now to Georgia. Trump might not stand but there absolutely will be a Trumpist candidate and Trump will use the sense of grievance that he's fostered in his increasingly cult like followers to direct policy in his favour and maintain influence. You say there was no "blue wave" yet Biden drew more votes even than Obama. The other way of looking at it is there was a smaller, but significant, "Trump wave" too. The concern for moderate republicans now is the possibility of Trump hiving that support off into a 3rd party, Farage style, and using that threat of rendering the republicans effectively unelectable. 21st century politics is all about controlling the fringes, not the centre. This is what the conspiracy theories are really all about. The "woke" thing is basically just the other side of that coin; if I'm honest, i know which one concerns me more though.
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 15, 2020 10:41:33 GMT 1
I would very surprised if Trump runs again in 2024 and whilst I'm sure the Republicans are unhappy at losing this election, it didn't turn out to be as bad as people first thought it would be. Trump is gone for sure but although they still trail in the House, they made gains. All eyes on Georgia in January with the two Senate spots up for grabs. That will be huge. But the predicated "Blue wave" simply didn't happen and despite winning the election, that will be a concern for the Democrats. And they do seem to be waking up to why... Trump is divisive like no one who has gone before him but I'll wager he won't play a part in 2024. The divisive people and movements around the Democrats however, I think will still be around. And I do think that will hurt them. But all eyes now to Georgia. Trump might not stand but there absolutely will be a Trumpist candidate and Trump will use the sense of grievance that he's fostered in his increasingly cult like followers to direct policy in his favour and maintain influence. You say there was no "blue wave" yet Biden drew more votes even than Obama. The other way of looking at it is there was a smaller, but significant, "Trump wave" too. The concern for moderate republicans now is the possibility of Trump hiving that support off into a 3rd party, Farage style, and using that threat of rendering the republicans effectively unelectable. 21st century politics is all about controlling the fringes, not the centre. This is what the conspiracy theories are really all about. The "woke" thing is basically just the other side of that coin; if I'm honest, i know which one concerns me more though. Not sure what you mean by Trumpist? If you mean some individual who will be as divisive and as toxic as Trump is then I don't think that will happen. If you mean the Republicans will continue with certain policies of the Trump administration then yes, they might well do so. Because of the increase in support the Republicans saw this time around. More so when looking to the black, Latino and Asian vote. As I read some place recently, the Republicans look to be setting the stage for an ethnically diverse, working class support base that the Democrats can only dream of.
And yes, there was no blue wave. The Democrats were expecting more than this and from what I can see there are already discussions ongoing about why that didn't happen. Georgia is massive now and even if they were able to take the two seats and capture the Senate...there will still be concerns about why this was closer than it was. As I say, the Democrats still have the majority in the House but the GOP made gains. That wasn't in the script.
And each to their own of course, its all about opinions but that "woke thing" isn't going away and I have no doubt it will continue to hurt the Democrats. As already mentioned by more than one Democrat, " defund the police" and other such messages are already having an impact. Waking up this morning and you see clips of families, couples and pensioners being stalked and abused in the streets by black clad Antifa/BLM/those against the Trump rally on the streets on Washington after the rally there yesterday. Isolated incidents of course but after the weeks of violence and vandalism seen in the States over the last few weeks I have no doubt that the actions of these people will take its toll on the Democrat party.
|
|
|
Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 15, 2020 11:26:06 GMT 1
Trump might not stand but there absolutely will be a Trumpist candidate and Trump will use the sense of grievance that he's fostered in his increasingly cult like followers to direct policy in his favour and maintain influence. You say there was no "blue wave" yet Biden drew more votes even than Obama. The other way of looking at it is there was a smaller, but significant, "Trump wave" too. The concern for moderate republicans now is the possibility of Trump hiving that support off into a 3rd party, Farage style, and using that threat of rendering the republicans effectively unelectable. 21st century politics is all about controlling the fringes, not the centre. This is what the conspiracy theories are really all about. The "woke" thing is basically just the other side of that coin; if I'm honest, i know which one concerns me more though. Not sure what you mean by Trumpist? If you mean some individual who will be as divisive and as toxic as Trump is then I don't think that will happen. If you mean the Republicans will continue with certain policies of the Trump administration then yes, they might well do so. Because of the increase in support the Republicans saw this time around. More so when looking to the black, Latino and Asian vote. As I read some place recently, the Republicans look to be setting the stage for an ethnically diverse, working class support base that the Democrats can only dream of.
And yes, there was no blue wave. The Democrats were expecting more than this and from what I can see there are already discussions ongoing about why that didn't happen. Georgia is massive now and even if they were able to take the two seats and capture the Senate...there will still be concerns about why this was closer than it was. As I say, the Democrats still have the majority in the House but the GOP made gains. That wasn't in the script.
And each to their own of course, its all about opinions but that "woke thing" isn't going away and I have no doubt it will continue to hurt the Democrats. As already mentioned by more than one Democrat, " defund the police" and other such messages are already having an impact. Waking up this morning and you see clips of families, couples and pensioners being stalked and abused in the streets by black clad Antifa/BLM/those against the Trump rally on the streets on Washington after the rally there yesterday. Isolated incidents of course but after the weeks of violence and vandalism seen in the States over the last few weeks I have no doubt that the actions of these people will take its toll on the Democrat party.
You think Trump has gone to the trouble of getting himself elected president only to just slink off into the night now? Especially with sharks like Michael Cohen and the banks circling with blood in the water. He needs a sizeable mob lurking on the sidelines to intimidate the republicans into protecting him as much as possible over the next 4 years and I expect someone in his circle or closely associated with him will stand in 2024. "Woke"/Q; it's just an arms race. Cold War style, one feeds the other. What will be really interesting will be if moderate republicans can cooperate with moderate dems to slay the dragon; throw Trump to the wolves early on, humiliate him in front of his base and give them a reality check and try to give themselves time to recover over the next 4 years or whether self interest takes over and they pander to Trump to avoid enraging his base. If you dislike the "woke" left you need to hope for the former. My money is on the latter actually happening. It's a shoe in if people to the right of politics keep enabling Trump by pandering to his obvious lies.
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Nov 15, 2020 11:30:34 GMT 1
Surely Trump will still be in Prison in 2024?
|
|
|
Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 15, 2020 15:04:26 GMT 1
Not sure what you mean by Trumpist? If you mean some individual who will be as divisive and as toxic as Trump is then I don't think that will happen. If you mean the Republicans will continue with certain policies of the Trump administration then yes, they might well do so. Because of the increase in support the Republicans saw this time around. More so when looking to the black, Latino and Asian vote. As I read some place recently, the Republicans look to be setting the stage for an ethnically diverse, working class support base that the Democrats can only dream of.
And yes, there was no blue wave. The Democrats were expecting more than this and from what I can see there are already discussions ongoing about why that didn't happen. Georgia is massive now and even if they were able to take the two seats and capture the Senate...there will still be concerns about why this was closer than it was. As I say, the Democrats still have the majority in the House but the GOP made gains. That wasn't in the script.
And each to their own of course, its all about opinions but that "woke thing" isn't going away and I have no doubt it will continue to hurt the Democrats. As already mentioned by more than one Democrat, " defund the police" and other such messages are already having an impact. Waking up this morning and you see clips of families, couples and pensioners being stalked and abused in the streets by black clad Antifa/BLM/those against the Trump rally on the streets on Washington after the rally there yesterday. Isolated incidents of course but after the weeks of violence and vandalism seen in the States over the last few weeks I have no doubt that the actions of these people will take its toll on the Democrat party.
You think Trump has gone to the trouble of getting himself elected president only to just slink off into the night now? Especially with sharks like Michael Cohen and the banks circling with blood in the water. He needs a sizeable mob lurking on the sidelines to intimidate the republicans into protecting him as much as possible over the next 4 years and I expect someone in his circle or closely associated with him will stand in 2024. "Woke"/Q; it's just an arms race. Cold War style, one feeds the other. What will be really interesting will be if moderate republicans can cooperate with moderate dems to slay the dragon; throw Trump to the wolves early on, humiliate him in front of his base and give them a reality check and try to give themselves time to recover over the next 4 years or whether self interest takes over and they pander to Trump to avoid enraging his base. If you dislike the "woke" left you need to hope for the former. My money is on the latter actually happening. It's a shoe in if people to the right of politics keep enabling Trump by pandering to his obvious lies. If I had to put money on it I don't think Trump will lead the GOP into the election in 2024. I'm sure he'll still be around shouting off on Twitter but I don't think he will be the Republican nomination in four years time.
The second and third paragraphs are a little difficult for me to follow but if I have you right then I disagree. The "woke thing" isn't done just because Trump is on his way out of the White House. And I don't think there is anything that we see on the Republican side that will placate it. I'm pretty sure they will be as vocal as ever. If you look to say BLM and Antifa, they are quite clear in their demands and I don't see why they won't continue to pressure to see those demands met. People will now be looking to say places like Minneapolis where they plan to meet those demands (and that's a city that is down in police numbers and where crime is going through the roof).
If anything, with the Democrats having supported or at the very least, turned a blind eye to the riots and protests that the US saw over the last months, they will be emboldened still.
Just to say, time will tell. But we knew that things would be interesting to watch whoever came out on top of this election. That's certainly going to be the case.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2020 15:34:42 GMT 1
Doesn't look good out of office for Trump:
|
|
|
Post by davycrockett on Nov 18, 2020 15:53:42 GMT 1
Doesn't look good out of office for Trump:
God Bless America 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
|
|
|
Post by venceremos on Nov 18, 2020 16:08:43 GMT 1
Doesn't look good out of office for Trump:
He's already secured his place in history as the least respected, most ridiculous president. He's been a bad president and now he's just a graceless, childish loser as well. His downfall is cause for celebration and long may it continue.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 18, 2020 16:57:54 GMT 1
This amused me. A Trump supporter claimed that there had been fraud in Georgia on the basis that the number of votes cast exceeded the population of the state.
Apparently he had confused the country, population 4 million, with the US state, population 10 million. Whether deliberately or through ignorance isn’t known.
|
|
|
Post by thesensationaljt on Nov 18, 2020 17:36:39 GMT 1
From my time dragging my carcass across around the planet I've met all sorts of nationalities. You know what you're going to get with Chinese, Russians, the always friendly Canadians, (I've always got on well with the Germans, don't know why, I just have), but I just don't understand the Americans at all. Our American cousins?
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2020 17:42:24 GMT 1
This amused me. A Trump supporter claimed that there had been fraud in Georgia on the basis that the number of votes cast exceeded the population of the state. Apparently he had confused the country, population 4 million, with the US state, population 10 million. Whether deliberately or through ignorance isn’t known. Think you mean county?
You now, I do wonder if Trump might be right about election fraud, he would probably know for sure because he's probably responsible for it. - just didn't come off because most of the legal votes were for Biden?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 17:43:36 GMT 1
The Americans that I have met and had the pleasure to serve along side have to a man and women, been superb.
Maybe I have been lucky.
They deserved so much better than Trump. He embarrassed them and the country.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2020 17:49:01 GMT 1
The Americans that I have met and had the pleasure to serve along side have to a man and women, been superb. Maybe I have been lucky. They deserved so much better than Trump. He embarrassed them and the country. Either he fixed the vote last time or it's the Americans who voted for him you have to watch out for.
It always seemed a bit like us being barmy enough to vote our The Apprentice star, Alan Sugar to be Prime Minister, you just wouldn't do it would you?
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 18, 2020 18:03:12 GMT 1
This amused me. A Trump supporter claimed that there had been fraud in Georgia on the basis that the number of votes cast exceeded the population of the state. Apparently he had confused the country, population 4 million, with the US state, population 10 million. Whether deliberately or through ignorance isn’t known. Think you mean county?
You now, I do wonder if Trump might be right about election fraud, he would probably know for sure because he's probably responsible for it. - just didn't come off because most of the legal votes were for Biden?
No I said country, it’s in the Caucasus.
|
|
|
Post by staffordshrew on Nov 18, 2020 18:30:40 GMT 1
Think you mean county?
You now, I do wonder if Trump might be right about election fraud, he would probably know for sure because he's probably responsible for it. - just didn't come off because most of the legal votes were for Biden?
No I said country, it’s in the Caucasus. I knew you would have to be thick to vote Trump, but that takes the biscuit.
|
|
|
Post by thesensationaljt on Nov 18, 2020 19:40:33 GMT 1
The Americans that I have met and had the pleasure to serve along side have to a man and women, been superb. Maybe I have been lucky. They deserved so much better than Trump. He embarrassed them and the country. I'll bet you weren't a waiter in a hotel though Nick. I also served at the same barracks as Americans. I wouldn't say we were "buddies" but we were reasonably polite........until they tried to take over the "canteen" Juan night. There was blood and snot everywhere. I've got to admit being economical with the truth when the dragon and I were doing the nile cruise. We flew down to Abu Simbel on an internal Egyptian flight, (When you've got 4 hours to spare, I'll briefly tell you about the absolute chaos from the time we left the ship until we got back on board, and that's being very brief!). Any road up, when we eventually arrived late at Abu Simbel (more chaos), there were a large group of Americans in the next queue waiting to get in. Obviously they couldn't understand the dragon's silly yam yam accent but realised I was a "Brit".. It was the time when Harry had started dating Princess Precious and they surrounded me eagerly wanting my views of Harry and the good lady. If I told the truth I would probably have the owd bill knocking the door. But I managed to paint a very colourful picture without actually lying! Sorry, I went off on Juan there. The Americans in Mexico were an absolute disgrace the way they bellowed at the staff. The "gentlemen must wear trousers for dinner", and yes I know others don't in udder places, but this was a bit posher and was enforced at the door, except for the Yanks who just brushed past in t shirt, shorts and of course a baseball cap. When they began coming back to Cuba, they were equally as brash. "Two eggs sunny side up", hollered from about 3 feet from the chef. Personally, I'm not bothered either way with a trade deal with America. So if the Yanks decide to poke their nose into Northern Irish affairs, I'd love to have a trade deal with Cuba in America's backyard and see how they like it. Eight years of Obama did nothing of any significance for Cuba anyway. Lovely country, lovely people.
|
|