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Post by jamo on Jul 1, 2020 18:45:22 GMT 1
I’d agree about not seeing a club disappear, although there have been numerous examples of clubs completely living beyond their means on numerous occasions, which in turn leaves the sympathy vote somewhat lacking. In this particular instance I think there may be more at play than simply the COVID-19 scenario.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 1, 2020 19:51:36 GMT 1
Spoken like a true Merseysider. Me ? ... I can't do the specific maths, as its difficult to get an exact population for a non-specific area as South-East Lancashire ( not S.W as I stated )but before Bury's demise there where 10 PL/FL teams in the area...United, City, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham and Accrington..far too many Don't forget Stockport in the not too distant past as well.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 7:37:55 GMT 1
Spoken like a true Merseysider. Me ? ... I can't do the specific maths, as its difficult to get an exact population for a non-specific area as South-East Lancashire ( not S.W as I stated )but before Bury's demise there where 10 PL/FL teams in the area...United, City, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham and Accrington..far too many When you consider that the population of Greater Manchester is around 2.8m and maybe another 3/4m for SE Lancashire and in that area there are at least the 10 clubs you mention and that's before you even consider all of the Rugby League clubs that also need supporters to survive, you can see easily see why some are struggling, especially when the supporters see previous successes disappearing into the history books. In the last 15 years Blackburn, Bolton and Wigan were not only playing top flight football, but European football too.
Compare those 10 teams fighting for supporters with the West Midlands which has a population of around 2.6m, negligible (in comparrison) Rugby and only 5 PL/FL teams and the figures really don't add up.
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 12:03:25 GMT 1
Spoken like a true Merseysider. Me ? ... I can't do the specific maths, as its difficult to get an exact population for a non-specific area as South-East Lancashire ( not S.W as I stated )but before Bury's demise there where 10 PL/FL teams in the area...United, City, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham and Accrington..far too many Haha, that's just a region of great sporting tradition! Anyway, never mind the maths, you need to check your geography. How are you getting Burnley, Blackburn and Accrington into SE Lancs? That's like saying Preston, Blackpool & Fleetwood are Merseyside clubs!?
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 12:16:32 GMT 1
I’d agree about not seeing a club disappear, although there have been numerous examples of clubs completely living beyond their means on numerous occasions, which in turn leaves the sympathy vote somewhat lacking. In this particular instance I think there may be more at play than simply the COVID-19 scenario. I've read comments (probably from Wigan fans) saying that the administrators have said the club is well run. Not that surprising given that their job is to sell it. I also saw a comment that the club only went into admin because the money promised by the buyer hadn't materialised, so it was the EFL's fault because they'd failed in their due diligence. I struggle to understand the logic of that. How can any due diligence, no matter how detailed, identify that someone won't do something in future? And if a club is dependent on new money coming in for its survival, doesn't that indicate that it's been spending more money than it could afford? In which case, how 'well run' can it really be? I think some fans have a real blind spot when it comes to football and finance. Perhaps it's a question of my club right or wrong for some and they feel they're being disloyal if they criticise. Perhaps Wigan are just trying to keep playing at an unsustainably high level for which they can't generate the resources required. Anyway, Dave Whelan's talking about helping out so that could keep them buoyant for a while longer.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 12:47:26 GMT 1
Me ? ... I can't do the specific maths, as its difficult to get an exact population for a non-specific area as South-East Lancashire ( not S.W as I stated )but before Bury's demise there where 10 PL/FL teams in the area...United, City, Burnley, Blackburn, Bolton, Wigan, Bury, Rochdale, Oldham and Accrington..far too many Haha, that's just a region of great sporting tradition! Anyway, never mind the maths, you need to check your geography. How are you getting Burnley, Blackburn and Accrington into SE Lancs? That's like saying Preston, Blackpool & Fleetwood are Merseyside clubs!? To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jul 2, 2020 13:08:06 GMT 1
Haha, that's just a region of great sporting tradition! Anyway, never mind the maths, you need to check your geography. How are you getting Burnley, Blackburn and Accrington into SE Lancs? That's like saying Preston, Blackpool & Fleetwood are Merseyside clubs!? To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct. I was using the M65 as the hypotenuse boundary of a triangle with the M6 as the vertical and the M56 as the horizontal.
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 13:38:58 GMT 1
To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct. I was using the M65 as the hypotenuse boundary of a triangle with the M6 as the vertical and the M56 as the horizontal. Outrageous that a Wirralian wouldn't know that the M56 is - and always has been - in Cheshire (perhaps apart from the Manc bit at the end)! Nobody from Runcorn would make that mistake!
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 14:37:45 GMT 1
Haha, that's just a region of great sporting tradition! Anyway, never mind the maths, you need to check your geography. How are you getting Burnley, Blackburn and Accrington into SE Lancs? That's like saying Preston, Blackpool & Fleetwood are Merseyside clubs!? To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct. Hmmm, quite a lot to unpick here. 1. They're definitely eastern, no question. 2. Southern? Certainly if you're looking at a current map of Lancashire but then you'd have to exclude every club in Greater Manchester, which rather negates gainsparkshrew's point. Pre-1973 Lancashire included Manchester and, if you drew a vertical line down the middle of the county, Blackburn etc were in the northern part of the eastern side. If you looked at the whole county though, its northernmost point was almost at Windermere, so even somewhere as far north as Preston could be said to be in the south! 3. All too complicated. Perhaps it's my age but my rule of thumb would be that, if someone says SE Lancs, they essentially mean Greater Manchester. Huddersfield's as close to the centre of Manchester as are Blackburn and Burnley!
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 15:37:31 GMT 1
To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct. Pre-1973 Lancashire included Manchester I was 8. I'm now 55.
In 1973 I was watching England fail to qualify for the World Cup and resigning myself to supporting Scotland.
Red Rum won his first Grand National, Jackie Stewart was World Champion and Jimmy Osmond was at No.1
A lot has changed in 47 years.
If I was to be pedantic it was actually 1974 when Lancashire was broken up
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 2, 2020 15:44:55 GMT 1
Pre-1973 Lancashire included Manchester I was 8. I'm now 55.
and Jimmy Osmond was at No.1
A lot has changed in 47 years.
Seems as though music at the higher reaches if the chart hasn't changed a lot - still .
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 16:02:08 GMT 1
I was 8. I'm now 55.
and Jimmy Osmond was at No.1
A lot has changed in 47 years.
Seems as though music at the higher reaches if the chart hasn't changed a lot - still . There was some good stuff too.
Blockbuster. The Sweet.
Can the Can. Suzi Quattro.
20th Century Boy. T-Rex.
Smoke on the Water. Deep Purple.
The Who released Quadrophenia.
Every generation has some great music and some s**te music, unfortunately the s**te usually floats to the top.
How the hell did this go so far off topic?
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 16:05:19 GMT 1
Pre-1973 Lancashire included Manchester I was 8. I'm now 55.
In 1973 I was watching England fail to qualify for the World Cup and resigning myself to supporting Scotland.
Red Rum won his first Grand National, Jackie Stewart was World Champion and Jimmy Osmond was at No.1
A lot has changed in 47 years.
If I was to be pedantic it was actually 1974 when Lancashire was broken up You're quite right re 1974. I was thinking of the local elections for the new councils that were held in 1973 of course ….. A lot certainly has changed (thank God, thinking back to what I was wearing in 1973) but I can't accept that includes Blackburn becoming part of the sporting community of SE Lancs!
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Post by venceremos on Jul 2, 2020 16:18:20 GMT 1
Seems as though music at the higher reaches if the chart hasn't changed a lot - still . There was some good stuff too.
Blockbuster. The Sweet.
Can the Can. Suzi Quattro.
20th Century Boy. T-Rex.
Smoke on the Water. Deep Purple.
The Who released Quadrophenia.
Every generation has some great music and some s**te music, unfortunately the s**te usually floats to the top.
How the hell did this go so far off topic? Some interesting selections there. Glam rock & Philly soul dominated the charts. I liked a bit of T Rex (& 20th Century Boy has one of the best riff intros in pop music) but preferred Bowie and Mott The Hoople - although my prog era was about to begin, via Deep Purple, Cream & Uriah Heep. I liked some of the soul too - the O'Jays, Detroit Emeralds, Chi-Lites, Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes - but we were too daft to admit to it. If you're into 70s music (and everyone should be), David Hepworth's book '1971' is a great read. I made a playlist of all the recommendations in there and really enjoy shuffling it - there's so much I don't know as well as the familiar.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 16:40:16 GMT 1
There was some good stuff too.
Blockbuster. The Sweet.
Can the Can. Suzi Quattro.
20th Century Boy. T-Rex.
Smoke on the Water. Deep Purple.
The Who released Quadrophenia.
Every generation has some great music and some s**te music, unfortunately the s**te usually floats to the top.
How the hell did this go so far off topic? Some interesting selections there. Glam rock & Philly soul dominated the charts. I liked a bit of T Rex (& 20th Century Boy has one of the best riff intros in pop music) but preferred Bowie and Mott The Hoople - although my prog era was about to begin, via Deep Purple, Cream & Uriah Heep. I liked some of the soul too - the O'Jays, Detroit Emeralds, Chi-Lites, Harold Melvin & The Bluenotes - but we were too daft to admit to it. If you're into 70s music (and everyone should be), David Hepworth's book '1971' is a great read. I made a playlist of all the recommendations in there and really enjoy shuffling it - there's so much I don't know as well as the familiar. I'll have to try to get a copy. Another great book worth looking at is 33 Revolution Per Minute: A History of Protest Songs by Dorian Lynskey.
Like I said, I was 8. Prog rock was probably a bit out of my comfort zone.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Jul 2, 2020 16:56:37 GMT 1
Seems as though music at the higher reaches if the chart hasn't changed a lot - still . There was some good stuff too.
Blockbuster. The Sweet.
Can the Can. Suzi Quattro.
20th Century Boy. T-Rex.
Smoke on the Water. Deep Purple.
The Who released Quadrophenia.
Every generation has some great music and some s**te music, unfortunately the s**te usually floats to the top.
How the hell did this go so far off topic? You are right, loads if good stuff in the 70s. Far more good stuff than today, just not Jimmy ferkin Osmond. Was just that one i was comparing with today's dirge.
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Post by davycrockett on Jul 2, 2020 17:17:06 GMT 1
Haha, that's just a region of great sporting tradition! Anyway, never mind the maths, you need to check your geography. How are you getting Burnley, Blackburn and Accrington into SE Lancs? That's like saying Preston, Blackpool & Fleetwood are Merseyside clubs!? To be fair they are just about in the southern half of the county and to the east as well, so to say they are in SE Lancashire is actually correct. Plenty need a geography lessons here. Wigan Bolton and Rochdale for a start are in Greater Manchester. Haven’t been in Lancashire since 1974 ....... so not actually correct (hadn’t read above posts but folk may like to think they live in Lancashire but they don’t. I used to live in Altrincham locals called it Cheshire 😂)
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Post by Deleted on Jul 2, 2020 17:45:11 GMT 1
I lived in Oldham for 30 odd years and it was always Oldham, Lancashire 😃 None of this Greater Manchester malarkey 😅
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jul 2, 2020 17:52:19 GMT 1
I was using the M65 as the hypotenuse boundary of a triangle with the M6 as the vertical and the M56 as the horizontal. Outrageous that a Wirralian wouldn't know that the M56 is - and always has been - in Cheshire (perhaps apart from the Manc bit at the end)! Nobody from Runcorn would make that mistake! .. admittedly a shameful error, I was thinking of the M62. I was expecting some stick over the use of the word "hypotenuse" a word that I'm pretty sure that I haven't used since I left grammar school in 1973. The thread has turned rather weird, in a good way, how the heck did Little Jimmy Osmond get dragged in, and more to the point, why ? Going back on topic, what I was trying to point out was that there are a lot of clubs in a relatively small geographic area and it's therefor not unexpected that clubs in that vicinity are struggling to stay afloat. Wouldn't surprise me if Oldham collapsed in the near future
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Jul 2, 2020 18:14:44 GMT 1
I lived in Oldham for 30 odd years and it was always Oldham, Lancashire 😃 None of this Greater Manchester malarkey 😅 That is so true !...it was the same over on The Wirral. My late, dear Mum was so proud that we moved to the Wirral, Cheshire until someone decided to create Merseyside in 1974 and give us all L-Liverpool postcodes ( my Mum was a bit of a Hyacinth Bucket character which was quite apt as the actress actress Patricia Rouledge, who played Hyacinth, is from Birkenhead and her Grandfather was one of the founding fathers of Tranmere Rovers) Come the late '90s and the Royal Mail decided that they were going to deliver The Wirral's mail from Chester rather than Liverpool, hence a change of postcode and the last part of their address. I remember my Mum phoning me to tell me of their changed address, which had become Upton, Wirral, CH49 xxx. no mention of Birkenhead nor Merseyside. I managed to wind her up for about a month by telling her it had probably put £20k on the value of the house
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 2, 2020 20:06:28 GMT 1
Outrageous that a Wirralian wouldn't know that the M56 is - and always has been - in Cheshire (perhaps apart from the Manc bit at the end)! Nobody from Runcorn would make that mistake! .. admittedly a shameful error, I was thinking of the M62. I was expecting some stick over the use of the word "hypotenuse" a word that I'm pretty sure that I haven't used since I left grammar school in 1973. The thread has turned rather weird, in a good way, how the heck did Little Jimmy Osmond get dragged in, and more to the point, why ? Going back on topic, what I was trying to point out was that there are a lot of clubs in a relatively small geographic area and it's therefor not unexpected that clubs in that vicinity are struggling to stay afloat. Wouldn't surprise me if Oldham collapsed in the near future Sorry, that's down to me. It was venceremos fault really though, for bringing up 1973.
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Post by ssshrew on Jul 2, 2020 21:07:35 GMT 1
I lived in Oldham for 30 odd years and it was always Oldham, Lancashire 😃 None of this Greater Manchester malarkey 😅 Have to agree. All the towns mentioned are in Lancashire for me. Same as Middlesex is Middlesex and so aren’t he places in it not Greater London. It’s what I grew up learning and it was very important in my first job in 60s to know exactly where places were. I was born in Bromley in Kent. Apparently it’s now in Greater London but my birth certificate says Kent and that’s good enough for me.
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