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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Mar 28, 2020 14:53:59 GMT 1
My daughter is not a medic but shared a house at Uni with 3 med students who are now qualified and working as junior doctors. She talked to 2 of them this morning.
One is on a Covid 19 ward in London, she has no proper PPE. No proper masks, just paper ones that they have to double up. No elbow length gloves, just the standard wrist length latex. No hair nets, they are wrapping the packaging from gowns around their heads. No visors, just standard DIY type safety glasses. No shoe covers, they go without. No protective gowns, just standard issue items inadequate for the job.
They are exhausted, frightened and stressed. She is in central London but has to live out in Croydon as she can't afford London accommodation prices and she has to get there by tube.
The other works in Exeter as a GP. His practice has so little PPE that they have bought bin bags, cut head and arm holes in them and tied them around themselves.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 14:57:10 GMT 1
My daughter is not a medic but shared a house at Uni with 3 med students who are now qualified and working as junior doctors. She talked to 2 of them this morning. One is on a Covid 19 ward in London, she has no proper PPE. No proper masks, just paper ones that they have to double up. No elbow length gloves, just the standard wrist length latex. No hair nets, they are wrapping the packaging from gowns around their heads. No visors, just standard DIY type safety glasses. No shoe covers, they go without. No protective gowns, just standard issue items inadequate for the job. They are exhausted, frightened and stressed. She is in central London but has to live out in Croydon as she can't afford London accommodation prices and she has to get there by tube. The other works in Exeter as a GP. His practice has so little PPE that they have bought bin bags, cut head and arm holes in them and tied them around themselves. my daughter is a paramedic and it maked my blood boil but i am not suprised i used to work in the nhs for 37 years. the goverment keep on fobbing off nhs staff and the public that tessting of staff will be rolled out that staff will get protective equipment . we have seen events unfold in china .New Zealnd stoped flights from china 56 days ago that should have been a wake up call .it was very clear after what was happening in Italy we were following that spike . the failure to protect staff has a huge knock on effect on health provision,with stafff self isolating or ill with the virus and sadly now front line staff dying. the front bench should do a few shifts on an intensive care unit with only a surgical mask and a plastic apron that would focus there minds testing kites are not expected for another week so that is over 60 days since it was clear things were only going to get worse. Health secretary Matt Hancock has been in post since july 9th 2018 . so the failure in procuerment ,failure to provide protective equipment for front line services , a reduction in crital care beds and a lack of ventilators, have all hapened on his watch. equally an overeliance on india and china to provide qessential medication has also not been reviewd . a review of critical care beds in 2012 and 2018 both highlighted the impact of cuts on crtical care beds. it is not just the beds it is the speacilist critical care staff who who work with them are not been trained. look at germany five times the critical cared beds more doctors, half a million people been tested a week , if you are feeling unwell you can be tested and early treatment, they have the lowest moratality rates in europe. www.express.co.uk/news/world/1261495/Germany-coronavirus-death-rate-latest-covid19-testing-regimeas the article points out it may not remain low, but high numbers are been tested and isolated at an erlier stage
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 15:00:58 GMT 1
A disgrace. Blame will be apportioned later. At the moment all we can do is hope all those with the ability to get things sorted GET THINGS SORTED!
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 15:14:33 GMT 1
A disgrace. Blame will be apportioned later. At the moment all we can do is hope all those with the ability to get things sorted GET THINGS SORTED! it was clear in february things were going to get worse, then it was clear that we were following italys spike but still staff are not getiing tested staff are expected to teat ill patients without the proper equipment. this goverment has consistenly handled virtually evey aspect badly. should we be suprised ?
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Post by davycrockett on Mar 28, 2020 15:29:49 GMT 1
Just hope a China come to our aid as they have other country’s.... I’m not joking, we’ve already told the EU we don’t want to join their emergency planning to get more equipment but going it alone seems crazy.... respect to your daughter Zen and all others doing what they can in awful conditions
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 15:33:29 GMT 1
My daughter is not a medic but shared a house at Uni with 3 med students who are now qualified and working as junior doctors. She talked to 2 of them this morning. One is on a Covid 19 ward in London, she has no proper PPE. No proper masks, just paper ones that they have to double up. No elbow length gloves, just the standard wrist length latex. No hair nets, they are wrapping the packaging from gowns around their heads. No visors, just standard DIY type safety glasses. No shoe covers, they go without. No protective gowns, just standard issue items inadequate for the job. They are exhausted, frightened and stressed. She is in central London but has to live out in Croydon as she can't afford London accommodation prices and she has to get there by tube. The other works in Exeter as a GP. His practice has so little PPE that they have bought bin bags, cut head and arm holes in them and tied them around themselves. it must be very hard for her when she hears such stories from people she knows ; as we all share the concerns about how NHS have been let down.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 15:39:15 GMT 1
Unfortunately it shouldn’t come as a surprise the NHS is on the bones of its arse financially. Playing roulette with lives.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 28, 2020 15:41:15 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/chaos-and-panic-lancet-editor-says-nhs-was-left-unprepared-for-covid-19The NHS could have prevented “chaos and panic” had the system not been left “wholly unprepared for this pandemic”, the editor of a British medical journal has said. Numerous warnings were issued but these were not heeded, Richard Horton wrote in The Lancet. He cited an example from his journal on 20 January, pointing to a global epidemic: “Preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.” Dr Horton wrote that the government’s Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research plan had failed. “It failed, in part, because ministers didn’t follow WHO’s advice to ‘test, test, test’ every suspected case. They didn’t isolate and quarantine. They didn’t contact trace. “These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque. “The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS.”
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 15:41:37 GMT 1
I would like to ask again, with Hancock and Boris ill, just where the hell is our Home Secretary, Priti Patel? I checked twitter, etc. nothing heard from her since that Civil Servant resigned. Is she a victim of Coronavirus? Has she been forgotten like Rees-Mogg was for a gaff? Or is she unable to do anything without her civil service head?
If she really is of as little use as it appears then we need an urgent new cabinet appointment.
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Post by jamo on Mar 28, 2020 16:00:16 GMT 1
My god, we owe these people so much.
But as Downie so wisely said. We mustn’t politicise this.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Mar 28, 2020 16:16:13 GMT 1
It's an absolute disgrace
More so that several times now Hancock and other ministers have been promising PPE would be available, as would respirators. yet it hasn't happened.
But the NHS had been cut to the bone by the Tories for years, and then in December people had a chance to vote them out but voted for bloody brexit. how much time and money was put into that? how much was put into debating the NHS and staffing levels? Yes they may not have realised a massive pandemic was coming in a month but the signs had been there that something would be coming at some point.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 17:04:02 GMT 1
It’s difficult not to politicize this situation when you see the previous health minister Hunt acting as if he had nothing to do with the lack of equipment or beds. Unbelievable attitude from him in my opinion . s**t sticks and at the end of this I hope he is held responsible for his part in failing the NHS. I fear Cameron and Osborne , equally culpable will get away with their part in failing the NHS by virtue of the fact that time will provide a suitable cover for mistakes made in pursuit of their policies . We will see .
Keep well all , keep safe .
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 17:35:31 GMT 1
It’s difficult not to politicize this situation when you see the previous health minister Hunt acting as if he had nothing to do with the lack of equipment or beds. Unbelievable attitude from him in my opinion . s**t sticks and at the end of this I hope he is held responsible for his part in failing the NHS. I fear Cameron and Osborne , equally culpable will get away with their part in failing the NHS by virtue of the fact that time will provide a suitable cover for mistakes made in pursuit of their policies . We will see . Keep well all , keep safe . www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hospital-bed-shortage-uk-europe-capacity-chart-one-bottom-european-countries-eu-worst-jeremy-hunt-a7517541.html"Jeremy Hunt has rejected claims the NHS is facing a “humanitarian crisis” and argued that that the UK spends more than average for a rich country on the health service – despite having one of the worst hospital bed shortages in Europe." this article was writen in 2017 so clearly as many politicians he has selective amnesia
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 17:36:28 GMT 1
My god, we owe these people so much. But as Downie so wisely said. We mustn’t politicise this. why not they should be held acountable
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Post by wakemanender on Mar 28, 2020 17:37:50 GMT 1
The NHS has been under funded for years and we are now paying the price. The government however have come up with very commendable schemes to pay 80% of employees salaries when they are off work and the same for the self employed. This is going to cost billions and has been put into place without too much effort. I am quite a simple person without too much political knowledge so would appreciate any information as to why it has been so difficult to get money into the NHS with the result that so many have died. Are we likely to learn anything when this is all over. Will the NHS be better off in the future for what is happening now.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 17:48:03 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/chaos-and-panic-lancet-editor-says-nhs-was-left-unprepared-for-covid-19The NHS could have prevented “chaos and panic” had the system not been left “wholly unprepared for this pandemic”, the editor of a British medical journal has said. Numerous warnings were issued but these were not heeded, Richard Horton wrote in The Lancet. He cited an example from his journal on 20 January, pointing to a global epidemic: “Preparedness plans should be readied for deployment at short notice, including securing supply chains of pharmaceuticals, personal protective equipment, hospital supplies and the necessary human resources to deal with the consequences of a global outbreak of this magnitude.” Dr Horton wrote that the government’s Contain-Delay-Mitigate-Research plan had failed. “It failed, in part, because ministers didn’t follow WHO’s advice to ‘test, test, test’ every suspected case. They didn’t isolate and quarantine. They didn’t contact trace. “These basic principles of public health and infectious disease control were ignored, for reasons that remain opaque. “The result has been chaos and panic across the NHS.” these are some of the issues that make my blood boil . the contrat can be highlighted with german which has the lowest moratality rate in europe who have tested anyone who has felt ill. www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2020/03/why-are-germany-s-and-austria-s-coronavirus-death-rates-so-low"one of the peculiarities of the Covid-19 outbreak is the recorded fatality rate. The proportion of those infected who die seems to vary greatly between countries. It is highest in Italy, at around 10%, and around 7% in Spain and Iran. In the UK, France and the Netherlands it is around 5%, and in Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, South Korea and the US between about 1.5% and 3%. But it is lowest of all in Germany and Austria, at around 0.7% in both countries. According to the John Hopkins Coronavirus Resource Centre, of 53,340 Germans infected only 395 have died; of 7,712 infected Austrians only 58 have succumbed to the virus." there is a big difference between 0.7% and 5%
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 17:50:44 GMT 1
My god, we owe these people so much. But as Downie so wisely said. We mustn’t politicise this. why not they should be held acountable Personally, I will wait until after the insanity of the moment. The Select Committees will ask the pertinent questions after the event and we must learn from that. The Lancet is already slating the inaction: 'Chaos and panic': Lancet editor says NHS was left unprepared for Covid-19 www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/28/chaos-and-panic-lancet-editor-says-nhs-was-left-unprepared-for-covid-19'Nonchalant': Boris Johnson accused of Covid-19 complacency
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 17:57:27 GMT 1
There are apparently thousands of Brits stuck in countries all over the world desperate to be repatriated. When that happens I trust that they will be tested and isolated . If not it’s irresponsible to just let them return to their homes even though we are all in lockdown . I say this because I have read that a flight from America landed and passengers we’re allowed to go through customs and then depart without any testing whatsoever , appalling in my opinion.
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Post by northwestman on Mar 28, 2020 18:03:54 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong'Something has gone badly wrong in the way the UK has handled Covid-19. I know Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Patrick Vallance. I have the utmost respect for both. They have had the services of some of the most talented researchers in the world to draw on. But somehow there was a collective failure among politicians and perhaps even government experts to recognise the signals that Chinese and Italian scientists were sending. We had the opportunity and the time to learn from the experience of other countries. For reasons that are not entirely clear, the UK missed those signals. We missed those opportunities'.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 18:06:34 GMT 1
i am not saying now, but there needs to be somone held accountable but we both know nothing will happen, how many reports has there been into the NHS and social care, how many times do you "see lessons have been learnt new policies have been put in place" you only have to look at the mid staffs hospital scandel, the Francis report was scathing but not a single manager was sacked, no politician resigned. The Francis report should be manadotery reading for every health minister and PM .
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 18:09:25 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong'Something has gone badly wrong in the way the UK has handled Covid-19. I know Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Patrick Vallance. I have the utmost respect for both. They have had the services of some of the most talented researchers in the world to draw on. But somehow there was a collective failure among politicians and perhaps even government experts to recognise the signals that Chinese and Italian scientists were sending. We had the opportunity and the time to learn from the experience of other countries. For reasons that are not entirely clear, the UK missed those signals. We missed those opportunities'. sadly true and somthing that angers and frustrates me.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 18:25:24 GMT 1
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/mar/18/coronavirus-uk-expert-advice-wrong'Something has gone badly wrong in the way the UK has handled Covid-19. I know Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, and Patrick Vallance. I have the utmost respect for both. They have had the services of some of the most talented researchers in the world to draw on. But somehow there was a collective failure among politicians and perhaps even government experts to recognise the signals that Chinese and Italian scientists were sending. We had the opportunity and the time to learn from the experience of other countries. For reasons that are not entirely clear, the UK missed those signals. We missed those opportunities'. You can get an idea of what has happened within Government AND the media, when the so called new Imperial College model was immediately being challenged by reference to an Oxford study. People, not just politicians just don't want to believe worst case predictions.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 19:01:46 GMT 1
my sister works for a medium seized private hospital, it has day clinics and surgical wards. the hospital has stoped all the day clinics and the surgical wards will soon be reciving cancer patients. this makes sense as it will free up hospital beds but equally it will seperate people with impaired immune systems out of a general hospital struggling with the cornoa virus. the hospital is part of a large american chain with hospitals through the uk.all of which will now be taking nhs patients.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Mar 28, 2020 19:07:27 GMT 1
Just a little video to show what Chinese medical staff wear: linkBut the UK cannot do that. It should be a matter for national pride that we can do the same and more. This is exactly the sort of cruel neglect that sent our soldiers into Iraq and Afghanistan in snatch Land Rovers. A GP in Ludlow has been taking the same precautions herself and was banned from Ludlow Hospital by the Shropshire Community NHS Trust because she was frightening the patients and other staff. It is a disgrace but a group of doctors in London are crowdfunding to get some appropriate equipment, if you can make a donation: link
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 19:16:11 GMT 1
Crowdfunding? If the PPE problem can be eased by money then Hancock & co want shooting. link
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Post by SeanBroseley on Mar 28, 2020 19:18:19 GMT 1
If people are panicking now they are taking the wise position of beating the rush. At current rates of increase there will be over 19,000 deaths in the UK by 11th April. Given when lockdown began it's difficult to see the curve to flatten significantly before then. But hopefully by the end of April the number of fatalities will reduce to levels that are below catastrophic. There's probably several hundred thousand carrying the disease in the UK who are fuelling the number of deaths we are currently seeing.
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Post by staffordshrew on Mar 28, 2020 19:22:57 GMT 1
If people are panicking now they are taking the wise position of beating the rush. At current rates of increase there will be over 19,000 deaths in the UK by 11th April. Given when lockdown began it's difficult to see the curve to flatten significantly before then. But hopefully by the end of April the number of fatalities will reduce to levels that are below catastrophic. There's probably several hundred thousand carrying the disease in the UK who are fuelling the number of deaths we are currently seeing. Hope they enjoyed their trip to the seaside and non league football!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 19:35:34 GMT 1
There are apparently thousands of Brits stuck in countries all over the world desperate to be repatriated. When that happens I trust that they will be tested and isolated . If not it’s irresponsible to just let them return to their homes even though we are all in lockdown . I say this because I have read that a flight from America landed and passengers we’re allowed to go through customs and then depart without any testing whatsoever , appalling in my opinion. I've just returned home to the UK from a holiday in Thailand. There was no testing on arriving at Manchester.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Mar 28, 2020 20:26:16 GMT 1
There are apparently thousands of Brits stuck in countries all over the world desperate to be repatriated. When that happens I trust that they will be tested and isolated . If not it’s irresponsible to just let them return to their homes even though we are all in lockdown . I say this because I have read that a flight from America landed and passengers we’re allowed to go through customs and then depart without any testing whatsoever , appalling in my opinion. last week 7,500 people came in the uk from iran, italy , new york and china to just name a few non were tested.
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Post by londonshrew75 on Mar 28, 2020 20:32:28 GMT 1
Shrewsbury has been conservative for as long as I can remember. If you have forty years plus of pure capitalism.......and you still vote them in.. Enough said
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