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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 22:52:53 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. It is without question an individuals right to vote for who they want to. But, anyone trotting out this tired old trope needs calling out. And they need calling out on the charge of crass hypocrisy. No one, other than a resident of Islington votes for Corbyn. No one. When someone comes out with this horse s**t (and they are always life-long labour supporters apparently...yeah right !) what they are really saying is that they do not support Labours manifesto of supporting/protecting the NHS, investing in Public Services, restoring Police levels across the country, tackling head on the massive issue of tax evasion by multi-national companies, taking failing private companies back into public ownership et al. That is what they are saying, but to say it they they need some sort of pseudo justification for diverting what they really mean, and that is that they intend voting for a political party that believes in the exact opposite. Vote for this venal, rancid, feral bunch of spunk trumpets if you wish, no problem with that, but at least have the b******s to state that’s what you stand for. What a reaction. Call me out as much as you like, I know who I will be voting for and nothing will convince me otherwise.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 1, 2019 23:12:10 GMT 1
When looking to why a good few won't vote for Corbyn... Why you shouldn’t vote for Jeremy CorbynThat's from 2016, it's still relevant today (and you can update it further with the likes of Andrew Fisher moving on, that he refused to say he would authorize a strike on al-Baghdadi, for example). Anyhow, its a good summary as to why many will specifically point to Corbyn as to why they won't vote Labour. Some can easily dismiss such things, they may not deem such things as important. However, that's clearly not the case for others.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 0:25:50 GMT 1
When looking to why a good few won't vote for Corbyn... Why you shouldn’t vote for Jeremy CorbynThat's from 2016, it's still relevant today (and you can update it further with the likes of Andrew Fisher moving on, that he refused to say he would authorize a strike on al-Baghdadi, for example). Anyhow, its a good summary as to why many will specifically point to Corbyn as to why they won't vote Labour. Some can easily dismiss such things, they may not deem such things as important. However, that's clearly not the case for others. Conversely on the first point:- www.bbench.co.uk/single-post/2017/06/05/Jeremy-Corbyn-was-always-right-on-Northern-Ireland-Britain-must-accept-that#! All other accusations can be refuted and have been if anyone takes the trouble to look. I never have thought that Corbyn is the man for the job but I would defend him against these kind of allegations largely brought on by the gutter press. Interestingly, I don't think you ever hear opposition MPs making these allegations.
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GE 2019
Nov 2, 2019 1:15:38 GMT 1
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Post by Valerioch on Nov 2, 2019 1:15:38 GMT 1
Has anyone who says "Can't vote for Corbyn" ever actually listened to what he says? He may have been a young firebrand leftie, but he's been honed into a more realistic mature leader who, if you listen, talks sense. The sort of sense that offers the chance to say yes or no to a final say on leaving the EU or not, instead of telling us what we actually want. I always ask one question when I hear "I can't vote for someone like Corbyn". Which one of his policies do you disagree with? The vast majority of the time, they can't name one and often just say "well he's a prat" etc. Some people do say the policies they disagree with and that's fair enough. He’d welcome Shemima Begum back to this country Instantly unelectable to me I also disagree with his ridiculous Brexit policy. Yet to see a labour manifesto for 2019 but once I do, I’m sure I’ll be able to add many more to this list
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GE 2019
Nov 2, 2019 1:17:23 GMT 1
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Post by Valerioch on Nov 2, 2019 1:17:23 GMT 1
It is without question an individuals right to vote for who they want to. But, anyone trotting out this tired old trope needs calling out. And they need calling out on the charge of crass hypocrisy. No one, other than a resident of Islington votes for Corbyn. No one. When someone comes out with this horse s**t (and they are always life-long labour supporters apparently...yeah right !) what they are really saying is that they do not support Labours manifesto of supporting/protecting the NHS, investing in Public Services, restoring Police levels across the country, tackling head on the massive issue of tax evasion by multi-national companies, taking failing private companies back into public ownership et al. That is what they are saying, but to say it they they need some sort of pseudo justification for diverting what they really mean, and that is that they intend voting for a political party that believes in the exact opposite. Vote for this venal, rancid, feral bunch of spunk trumpets if you wish, no problem with that, but at least have the b******s to state that’s what you stand for. What a reaction. Call me out as much as you like, I know who I will be voting for and nothing will convince me otherwise. Well said. We will never give in to the left wing socialist bullies, who think if they shout loudest they will win. b******s to them
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Post by TheFoz on Nov 2, 2019 5:25:55 GMT 1
Labour’s Brexit policy was so unclear in 2017, it was a major weakness for them.
Now, they have stated that they want a people’s vote on a deal or remain.
Once people get this message, I can see a lot of Lib Dem votes going to Labour, especially with Swinson in charge.
Add in the Brexit party potentially getting votes from the Tories, I think this could be a very interesting election.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 2, 2019 7:56:59 GMT 1
When looking to why a good few won't vote for Corbyn... Why you shouldn’t vote for Jeremy CorbynThat's from 2016, it's still relevant today (and you can update it further with the likes of Andrew Fisher moving on, that he refused to say he would authorize a strike on al-Baghdadi, for example). Anyhow, its a good summary as to why many will specifically point to Corbyn as to why they won't vote Labour. Some can easily dismiss such things, they may not deem such things as important. However, that's clearly not the case for others. Conversely on the first point:- www.bbench.co.uk/single-post/2017/06/05/Jeremy-Corbyn-was-always-right-on-Northern-Ireland-Britain-must-accept-that#! All other accusations can be refuted and have been if anyone takes the trouble to look. I never have thought that Corbyn is the man for the job but I would defend him against these kind of allegations largely brought on by the gutter press. Interestingly, I don't think you ever hear opposition MPs making these allegations. I really don't see how the first link would allay anyone's concerns about Corbyn attending Republican rallies where those who fought and died for the IRA were honored nor his involvement in Labour Briefing. And the other accusations can be refuted? You mean he wasn't paid to appear on Iranian Press TV? There are links available against all the points provided in that Spectator article and for sure, I would always urge people to take time out to check the information available and make their own mind up. That's what its all about...👍 I think Salisbury was a glimpse of what we can expect; where once again he was playing the useful idiot (on that occasion for Putin and Russia) and looking completely out of his depth.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 7:59:19 GMT 1
When looking to why a good few won't vote for Corbyn... Why you shouldn’t vote for Jeremy CorbynThat's from 2016, it's still relevant today (and you can update it further with the likes of Andrew Fisher moving on, that he refused to say he would authorize a strike on al-Baghdadi, for example). Anyhow, its a good summary as to why many will specifically point to Corbyn as to why they won't vote Labour. Some can easily dismiss such things, they may not deem such things as important. However, that's clearly not the case for others. Conversely on the first point:- www.bbench.co.uk/single-post/2017/06/05/Jeremy-Corbyn-was-always-right-on-Northern-Ireland-Britain-must-accept-that#! All other accusations can be refuted and have been if anyone takes the trouble to look. I never have thought that Corbyn is the man for the job but I would defend him against these kind of allegations largely brought on by the gutter press. Interestingly, I don't think you ever hear opposition MPs making these allegations. Good post. Obviously, some folk are perfectly happy for successive UK Governments to get into bed with terrorists organisations, or sponsor terrorism...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 9:01:29 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍 I know my statement is to the point but trust me, it has not been an easy one to make. Some won't believe me but my conscience is clear. Perhaps I will come to regret it, who knows? Perhaps I should also debate/clarify more how I have reached this point but I would be shot down immediately by some on this board, as a postscript sadly that has already happened.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 9:22:43 GMT 1
I really don't see how the first link would allay anyone's concerns about Corbyn attending Republican rallies where those who fought and died for the IRA were honored nor his involvement in Labour Briefing. And the other accusations can be refuted? You mean he wasn't paid to appear on Iranian Press TV? There are links available against all the points provided in that Spectator article and for sure, I would always urge people to take time out to check the information available and make their own mind up. That's what its all about...👍 I think Salisbury was a glimpse of what we can expect; where once again he was playing the useful idiot (on that occasion for Putin and Russia) and looking completely out of his depth. Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics.
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Post by Valerioch on Nov 2, 2019 9:39:27 GMT 1
Crikey if Blue and Amber has the Conservatives ahead, it could be a landslide for owd Danny boy
2017 thread poll on here made for a different poll and He still got a large majority
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Post by another fine mess on Nov 2, 2019 9:44:20 GMT 1
I really don't see how the first link would allay anyone's concerns about Corbyn attending Republican rallies where those who fought and died for the IRA were honored nor his involvement in Labour Briefing. And the other accusations can be refuted? You mean he wasn't paid to appear on Iranian Press TV? There are links available against all the points provided in that Spectator article and for sure, I would always urge people to take time out to check the information available and make their own mind up. That's what its all about...👍 I think Salisbury was a glimpse of what we can expect; where once again he was playing the useful idiot (on that occasion for Putin and Russia) and looking completely out of his depth. Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics.
Sorry Wookeywombat, you must have forgotten what went on at the last election. These allegations were made repeatedly by his opponents, including MPs, and the media too.
They haven’t been made so much recently and are less likely to feature in this election because, in the main part, the electorate doesn’t seem to care. Either that, or they do what some people on here do and say: “it can’t be true” or “it’s open to interpretation”. That’s not a sustainable line of argument in face of the facts so I think you have to decide whether it matters to you.
I thought that Corbyn’s proven sympathies for the IRA etc would make his election as PM unthinkable for most people. I was wrong.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 10:35:54 GMT 1
Crikey if Blue and Amber has the Conservatives ahead, it could be a landslide for owd Danny boy 2017 thread poll on here made for a different poll and He still got a large majority It would be interesting to know the ages of the voters in this poll. Given the good graphic linked to earlier in this thread on young voters registering too vote, you would expect they are going to be supportive of the left/liberal vote - which could have a significant impact at the national level (but suggest less so in Shropshire).
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 12:08:51 GMT 1
Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics.
Sorry Wookeywombat, you must have forgotten what went on at the last election. These allegations were made repeatedly by his opponents, including MPs, and the media too.
They haven’t been made so much recently and are less likely to feature in this election because, in the main part, the electorate doesn’t seem to care. Either that, or they do what some people on here do and say: “it can’t be true” or “it’s open to interpretation”. That’s not a sustainable line of argument in face of the facts so I think you have to decide whether it matters to you.
I thought that Corbyn’s proven sympathies for the IRA etc would make his election as PM unthinkable for most people. I was wrong.
His contribution to the peace process was endorsed by Ian Paisley no less.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 12:09:19 GMT 1
Sorry Wookeywombat, you must have forgotten what went on at the last election. These allegations were made repeatedly by his opponents, including MPs, and the media too.
They haven’t been made so much recently and are less likely to feature in this election because, in the main part, the electorate doesn’t seem to care. Either that, or they do what some people on here do and say: “it can’t be true” or “it’s open to interpretation”. That’s not a sustainable line of argument in face of the facts so I think you have to decide whether it matters to you.
I thought that Corbyn’s proven sympathies for the IRA etc would make his election as PM unthinkable for most people. I was wrong.
Corbyn has always been a pacifist and there isn't anything wrong with that. He was one of the very few who voted against (as it turns out illegal) invasion of Iraq
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Post by FloreatShrew on Nov 2, 2019 12:58:41 GMT 1
[quote author=" another fine mess" I thought that Corbyn’s proven sympathies for the IRA etc would make his election as PM unthinkable for most people. I was wrong. [/div][/quote] Remind me who first had meetings with the IRA and all. Oh John Major and Thatcher.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 2, 2019 13:01:16 GMT 1
Corbyn: Has been an active member of CND for 50 years or so. But you never hear him campaigning for it in his role of leader of the opposition.
I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes.
Whilst he doesn't, I can't believe a word he says about anything.
'We live in a world where so many things are possible. Where peace is possible in so many places. I’m here because I believe in a nuclear-free Britain and a nuclear-free future.’ - from some CND rally. Not really heard him trying to convince the population though.
Come out and convince the population you're right Jeremy, maybe then we'll believe you have the ability to do what's best for this country. At the moment, it's all just words. If you can't convince the population on something you're so passionate about, how are you going to influence leaders on the world stage about anything?
Andrew Neil calls him out here:
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 2, 2019 13:25:46 GMT 1
I really don't see how the first link would allay anyone's concerns about Corbyn attending Republican rallies where those who fought and died for the IRA were honored nor his involvement in Labour Briefing. And the other accusations can be refuted? You mean he wasn't paid to appear on Iranian Press TV? There are links available against all the points provided in that Spectator article and for sure, I would always urge people to take time out to check the information available and make their own mind up. That's what its all about...👍 I think Salisbury was a glimpse of what we can expect; where once again he was playing the useful idiot (on that occasion for Putin and Russia) and looking completely out of his depth. Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics. Well like I say, his appearance on Press TV is there for all to see. There is plenty of information out there about his past and the company he keeps. I don't get the 'other accusations can be refuted'...they haven't, at all. And as I mentioned earlier, Ian Austin only a short time ago reminded everyone in the HoC of his past...👍
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 2, 2019 13:32:48 GMT 1
Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics.
I thought that Corbyn’s proven sympathies for the IRA etc would make his election as PM unthinkable for most people. I was wrong.
Yep, me too. That people can even consider him to be fit to be PM is beyond me. I just have absolutely no idea what they are thinking. And as to those who have also met with the IRA. Right, in what capacity. For me its for me it's a ridiculous comparison. Did Major and Thatcher attend events where those who had fought and died for the IRA were honored? Has Johnson at any time done so? Its a different kettle of fish and then some...
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GE 2019
Nov 2, 2019 13:47:07 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 13:47:07 GMT 1
Surely the salient point is that you never hear MPs opposed to Corbyn making these allegations. If any of this is actually true or not open to a different interpretation they would be queuing up to demonize him. Any criticism is only about Brexit and economics. Well like I say, his appearance on Press TV is there for all to see. There is plenty of information out there about his past and the company he keeps. I don't get the 'other accusations can be refuted'...they haven't, at all. And as I mentioned earlier, Ian Austin only a short time ago reminded everyone in the HoC of his past...👍 medium.com/justpolitical/corbyns-links-to-terrorists-antisemites-and-dictators-6018ad09a14The guilt by association seems only to apply to corbyn. Of course the very mp you mention Ian Austin has some rather dubious links to other human rights abusing nations and hasn't done half of the work toward campaigning against human rights atrocities that Corbyn has in his career. P s. Have a look who's father recently appeared on press TV.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 2, 2019 14:48:38 GMT 1
Well like I say, his appearance on Press TV is there for all to see. There is plenty of information out there about his past and the company he keeps. I don't get the 'other accusations can be refuted'...they haven't, at all. And as I mentioned earlier, Ian Austin only a short time ago reminded everyone in the HoC of his past...👍 medium.com/justpolitical/corbyns-links-to-terrorists-antisemites-and-dictators-6018ad09a14The guilt by association seems only to apply to corbyn. Of course the very mp you mention Ian Austin has some rather dubious links to other human rights abusing nations and hasn't done half of the work toward campaigning against human rights atrocities that Corbyn has in his career. P s. Have a look who's father recently appeared on press TV. By all means you can point out Austin's links to anyone you like. Fill your boots. That still doesn't detract from what he said about Corbyn. And I made the effort to read through the whole article you linked to and its just the same apologetic nonsense we have heard many times over from those who are doing their level best to rewrite history and Corbyn's past. I mean what is this... To be clear: the 1987 Loughgall ambush incurred civilian casualties and a civilian fatality. Poor prison conditions and an absence of rehabilitation programmes clearly helped to foment existing tensions.
I think it is perfectly clear that when it comes to Corbyn he was very much of the mind as his friend and colleague Abbott, in 'every defeat of the British State is a victory for all of us'. That goes for McDonnell too and his praise for terrorism. I get if people think that this is in past and something they can live with. I get that people may even be right behind him and support him in his views (I don't support that, mind). But the attempts to rewrite history and portray this as something other than what it is I find nowt but embarrassing. And are are referring to Johnson's dad appearing on Press TV? Being interviewed at a UK racecourse. Or did I miss it, was there more to it than that? That you even try and compare the two just goes to show how utterly apart we see such things.
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GE 2019
Nov 2, 2019 15:25:12 GMT 1
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Post by salop27 on Nov 2, 2019 15:25:12 GMT 1
Labour's latest mind boggling declaration is they don't want any billionaires living in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 15:36:46 GMT 1
Labour's latest mind boggling declaration is they don't want any billionaires living in the UK. You are obviously much too well off as you are supporting the Tories. When are you leaving the UK?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 15:40:09 GMT 1
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Post by neilsalop on Nov 2, 2019 15:46:25 GMT 1
Corbyn: Has been an active member of CND for 50 years or so. But you never hear him campaigning for it in his role of leader of the opposition. I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes. Whilst he doesn't, I can't believe a word he says about anything. 'We live in a world where so many things are possible. Where peace is possible in so many places. I’m here because I believe in a nuclear-free Britain and a nuclear-free future.’ - from some CND rally. Not really heard him trying to convince the population though. Come out and convince the population you're right Jeremy, maybe then we'll believe you have the ability to do what's best for this country. At the moment, it's all just words. If you can't convince the population on something you're so passionate about, how are you going to influence leaders on the world stage about anything? Andrew Neil calls him out here: Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system, but you don't see him campaigning for it.
I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes.
“We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice,”.
Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.”
Put together by Douglas Carswell, the book’s authors also included Tory MPs Michael Gove, Daniel Hannan, Greg Clark, David Gauke, and Kwasi Kwarteng.
Funny how not one of these people is prepared to stand up and say that in public.
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Post by salop27 on Nov 2, 2019 16:24:29 GMT 1
Labour's latest mind boggling declaration is they don't want any billionaires living in the UK. You are obviously much too well off as you are supporting the Tories. When are you leaving the UK? Working class and proud mate. I just don't have a chip on my shoulder like some.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 2, 2019 17:21:33 GMT 1
Corbyn: Has been an active member of CND for 50 years or so. But you never hear him campaigning for it in his role of leader of the opposition. I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes. Whilst he doesn't, I can't believe a word he says about anything. 'We live in a world where so many things are possible. Where peace is possible in so many places. I’m here because I believe in a nuclear-free Britain and a nuclear-free future.’ - from some CND rally. Not really heard him trying to convince the population though. Come out and convince the population you're right Jeremy, maybe then we'll believe you have the ability to do what's best for this country. At the moment, it's all just words. If you can't convince the population on something you're so passionate about, how are you going to influence leaders on the world stage about anything? Andrew Neil calls him out here: Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system, but you don't see him campaigning for it.
I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes.
“We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice,”.
Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.”
Put together by Douglas Carswell, the book’s authors also included Tory MPs Michael Gove, Daniel Hannan, Greg Clark, David Gauke, and Kwasi Kwarteng.
Funny how not one of these people is prepared to stand up and say that in public.
Totally agree, and if Jeremy Hunt was the leader of the opposition, I'd be questioning why I should believe in him too! Corbyn wants to be pm, but won't stick up for what he believes. How on earth can we all trust a man like that? He's also anti-monarchy. If he debates on TV that he's an anti-monarchy, CND'ist, and then gives us a bloody good case why, then I'd admire him. But right now, this guy can't fight for what he believes in and surely that's not what anyone wants as a leader. I don't want another 4 years of Tory rule, I want Labour in and to ease the pressure on our country a bit. Being in the public sector I've had one 'small' pay rise in ten years, nobody wants Labour in more than I. But, more than anything, I want a leader who 'leads' i.e fights for what they believe. I can't vote for Corbyn and wish Labour supporters had kicked him out when they had the chance.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2019 17:25:19 GMT 1
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Post by darkshrew on Nov 2, 2019 18:34:18 GMT 1
Danny boy is an embarrassment of an MP. Aside from his non-attendance history an inability to speak coherently in parliament he campaigns for causes that are of no interest to his constituents and actively campaigns for ones that will damage the Shropshire economy. If the party label was removed from him he would not stand a chance.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 2, 2019 19:34:15 GMT 1
Jeremy Hunt co-authored a policy pamphlet that called for the NHS to be replaced by an insurance system, but you don't see him campaigning for it.
I wish he would stick to his principles and convince the public that this would be a great thing for the nation. Come out and fight for what he believes. “We should fund patients, either through the tax system or by way of universal insurance, to purchase health care from the provider of their choice,”.
Our ambition should be to break down the barriers between private and public provision, in effect denationalising the provision of health care in Britain.” Put together by Douglas Carswell, the book’s authors also included Tory MPs Michael Gove, Daniel Hannan, Greg Clark, David Gauke, and Kwasi Kwarteng. Funny how not one of these people is prepared to stand up and say that in public.
Totally agree, and if Jeremy Hunt was the leader of the opposition, I'd be questioning why I should believe in him too! Corbyn wants to be pm, but won't stick up for what he believes. How on earth can we all trust a man like that? He's also anti-monarchy. If he debates on TV that he's an anti-monarchy, CND'ist, and then gives us a bloody good case why, then I'd admire him. But right now, this guy can't fight for what he believes in and surely that's not what anyone wants as a leader. I don't want another 4 years of Tory rule, I want Labour in and to ease the pressure on our country a bit. Being in the public sector I've had one 'small' pay rise in ten years, nobody wants Labour in more than I. But, more than anything, I want a leader who 'leads' i.e fights for what they believe. I can't vote for Corbyn and wish Labour supporters had kicked him out when they had the chance. Well, the Labour party does come as a package, hold your nose and vote for the others in the party. And, with FTTP and constituencies, you won't be voting directly for Corbyn. Think of the alternative: five more years of Boris and his cronies!
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