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Post by shrewder on Nov 1, 2019 17:26:06 GMT 1
More important than it has ever been that votes are not wasted by voting for no hopers depending on which constituency you live in. For example I live in Worcester and it is currently Conservative with a small 2000 majority over the Liberal Democrats. I will be voting Lib Dem to try and oust the Conservative. The other parties were so far behind in the last election, that potentially any vote for any of those for me it is a wasted vote. Obviously depends on you view point but for me just want to see Boris out.
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 17:31:51 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 17:31:51 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 18:23:50 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍
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Post by welshdan on Nov 1, 2019 18:27:51 GMT 1
Unfortunately due to voting system my vote is going to change nothing.
No way my vote is going to conservatives, and labour don’t inspire any confidence as an alternative.
Even if I decided to vote for Labour they were 17,500 behind conservatives in my constituency. The typical chimp in a blue rosette would win here situation...
Will still vote though...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 18:36:39 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍 I keep hearing about this Goodbye to the NHS but where is the substance behind it, you have been saying it for years, but yet all the time consecutive governments are pumping more money into it, including labour. Why is sit so underfunded? has it always been, or do the funds need to be spent more efficiently? How much has been spent on gender reassignment, which has been paid for by the tax payer.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 18:42:34 GMT 1
So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍 I keep hearing about this Goodbye to the NHS but where is the substance behind it, you have been saying it for years, but yet all the time consecutive governments are pumping more money into it, including labour. Why is sit so underfunded? has it always been, or do the funds need to be spent more efficiently? How much has been spent on gender reassignment, which has been paid for by the tax payer. Well, I don't suppose Maggie Thatcher paid for her own gender reassignment for a start.
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Post by TheFoz on Nov 1, 2019 18:46:37 GMT 1
My personal opinion is if Keir Starmer was leader, Labour walk this election. He has some great leadership qualities. I also think most of the general public are near centre. 10 years ago both parties were near there but the tories have shifted to the right and labour to the left. Yes, at heart the UK electorate are centrist. But, that position has been tried with Blair, Brown and Cameron, and here we are. And saying right and left just muddies the waters and enables terms like Fascist and Socialist/Commie. It's really about Social Democracy, or deregulation and rampant uncontrolled Capitalism, which centrists are perfectly happy with. Fair points. I think if Labour go fully behind the "Anti Establishment" path, I think it would be the best thing that they could do.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 18:51:32 GMT 1
So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍 I keep hearing about this Goodbye to the NHS but where is the substance behind it, you have been saying it for years, but yet all the time consecutive governments are pumping more money into it, including labour. Why is sit so underfunded? has it always been, or do the funds need to be spent more efficiently? How much has been spent on gender reassignment, which has been paid for by the tax payer. 22 million against a budget of 132bn Which is obviously so considerable you felt the need to post about it. As for goodbye to the NHS. Well it's on record the discussions between British civil servants and American officials regarding a post brexit pricing of drugs at US led market pricing. So I suppose its good bye to public money accross the Atlantic.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 19:07:19 GMT 1
So you’re happy to say goodbye to the nhs, social care et al, because you don’t trust Corbyns stance on brexit? Respect you as a poster GB but that makes no sense to me.👍 I keep hearing about this Goodbye to the NHS but where is the substance behind it, you have been saying it for years, but yet all the time consecutive governments are pumping more money into it, including labour. Why is sit so underfunded? has it always been, or do the funds need to be spent more efficiently? How much has been spent on gender reassignment, which has been paid for by the tax payer. Good call Maggie. To answer your questions: The evidence is the number of services within the nhs that are being outsourced to non nhs providers such as your local GP practices that are now (mostly) privately run by groups of gps or companies such as Virgin, who of course are paid by the nhs to provide a (increasingly s**t) service to the public. These again are increasingly going to the wall because the amount of money provided for this service isn’t enough to cover the number of gps, tests, medicines etc needed by the patient groups. Same again for most district nursing services throughout the country, who although have nhs proudly heading their documentation but are actually private providers funded by the nhs. So your tax buck and mine finds its way into Richard Branson’s wallet! The costs of medicines (to private pharmaceutical companies is rocketing. The numbers of people needing scans outstrips the numbers of slots in scanners so private companies (bupa etc) are paid large sums to soak up the overspill. No it’s not always been underfunded. Tony Blair ploughed bilions extra into it and cut waiting times for ops, treatments in A&E etc to a fraction of what they have now been allowed to become. There are always more efficient ways of working, but ironically efficiency has a price! I have no idea how much is spent on gender reassignment but I am happy to bet it’s a small fraction of the cost of treating the effects of smoking and alcohol! 😘
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Post by Worthingshrew on Nov 1, 2019 19:11:40 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour? That was tried with Blair and Brown. Look how that panned out. The Third Way, was the t*** way and the start of NHS sell offs and two wars Yes, we know how it turned out - they got elected, which is more than Corbyn and Momentum will. i would happily vote Labour under a centrist leader, but not with this regime.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 19:17:13 GMT 1
I keep hearing about this Goodbye to the NHS but where is the substance behind it, you have been saying it for years, but yet all the time consecutive governments are pumping more money into it, including labour. Why is sit so underfunded? has it always been, or do the funds need to be spent more efficiently? How much has been spent on gender reassignment, which has been paid for by the tax payer. The evidence is the number of services within the nhs that are being outsourced to non nhs providers such as your local GP practices that are now (mostly) privately run by groups of gps or companies such as Virgin, who of course are paid by the nhs to provide a (increasingly s**t) service to the public. I have no idea how much is spent on gender reassignment but I am happy to bet it’s a small fraction of the cost of treating the effects of smoking and alcohol! 😘 A good point in paragraph 1. The lead GP at my practice quit, because she couldn't take the financial responsibility of maintaining the practice and employing salaried GPs as per the new GMS contract. We lost an excellent GP, as did the NHS. As for paragraph 2. Probably a lot less then mental health treatment costs, and of course the two are linked.
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Post by jamo on Nov 1, 2019 19:18:02 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. It is without question an individuals right to vote for who they want to. But, anyone trotting out this tired old trope needs calling out. And they need calling out on the charge of crass hypocrisy. No one, other than a resident of Islington votes for Corbyn. No one. When someone comes out with this horse s**t (and they are always life-long labour supporters apparently...yeah right !) what they are really saying is that they do not support Labours manifesto of supporting/protecting the NHS, investing in Public Services, restoring Police levels across the country, tackling head on the massive issue of tax evasion by multi-national companies, taking failing private companies back into public ownership et al. That is what they are saying, but to say it they they need some sort of pseudo justification for diverting what they really mean, and that is that they intend voting for a political party that believes in the exact opposite. Vote for this venal, rancid, feral bunch of spunk trumpets if you wish, no problem with that, but at least have the b******s to state that’s what you stand for.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 19:21:26 GMT 1
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Post by WATR on Nov 1, 2019 19:30:53 GMT 1
That was tried with Blair and Brown. Look how that panned out. The Third Way, was the t*** way and the start of NHS sell offs and two wars Yes, we know how it turned out - they got elected, which is more than Corbyn and Momentum will. i would happily vote Labour under a centrist leader, but not with this regime. I think this Corbyn being unelectable lark which has been perpetuated for the last 5 years is one of the biggest myths going. Labour got 40% in 2017 under Corbyn, compared to 30.4% and 29% under the more "centrist" leadership of Milliband and Brown respectively - and they had the advantage of having their own MPs backing them. There is of course also the problem, such is Brexit myopia among the population, of most Labour marginals being leave voting seats where people aren't exactly crying out for centrism, even if they aren't fans of Corbyn.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 19:40:40 GMT 1
Has anyone who says "Can't vote for Corbyn" ever actually listened to what he says? He may have been a young firebrand leftie, but he's been honed into a more realistic mature leader who, if you listen, talks sense. The sort of sense that offers the chance to say yes or no to a final say on leaving the EU or not, instead of telling us what we actually want.
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Post by tvor on Nov 1, 2019 19:46:23 GMT 1
Has anyone who says "Can't vote for Corbyn" ever actually listened to what he says? He may have been a young firebrand leftie, but he's been honed into a more realistic mature leader who, if you listen, talks sense. The sort of sense that offers the chance to say yes or no to a final say on leaving the EU or not, instead of telling us what we actually want. I wish people would actually look at the respective party policies rather than as some kind of US Presidential style Johnson v Corbyn contest. I remember having similar discussions around the time of the last election with people who "couldn't vote for Corbyn". I showed them web links which put the respective party manifestos and policies side by side and they were surprised by just how many of the Labour policies they actually agreed with.
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Post by salop27 on Nov 1, 2019 20:19:52 GMT 1
Labours manifesto is heavily influenced by Corbyn and his mafia so the two can't be separated. Corbyn isn't fit to be PM. He's anti everything from NATO to stop and search. Labour could employ another 30 000 police officers and crime would go up still as they wouldn't actually be allowed to arrest anyone for fear of causing offence!
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 20:22:32 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 1, 2019 20:22:32 GMT 1
Labours manifesto is heavily influenced by Corbyn and his mafia so the two can't be separated. Corbyn isn't fit to be PM. He's anti everything from NATO to stop and search. Labour could employ another 30 000 police officers and crime would go up still as they wouldn't actually be allowed to arrest anyone for fear of causing offence! His 'mafia'. Embarrassing.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 20:26:04 GMT 1
Labours manifesto is heavily influenced by Corbyn and his mafia so the two can't be separated. Corbyn isn't fit to be PM. He's anti everything from NATO to stop and search. Labour could employ another 30 000 police officers and crime would go up still as they wouldn't actually be allowed to arrest anyone for fear of causing offence! Any evidence for any of that?
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 20:29:06 GMT 1
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Post by shrewsace on Nov 1, 2019 20:29:06 GMT 1
Labours manifesto is heavily influenced by Corbyn and his mafia so the two can't be separated. Corbyn isn't fit to be PM. He's anti everything from NATO to stop and search. Labour could employ another 30 000 police officers and crime would go up still as they wouldn't actually be allowed to arrest anyone for fear of causing offence! Any evidence for any of that? Probably some load of b******s on Unherd or Guido Fawkes.
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Post by TheFoz on Nov 1, 2019 20:35:25 GMT 1
Has anyone who says "Can't vote for Corbyn" ever actually listened to what he says? He may have been a young firebrand leftie, but he's been honed into a more realistic mature leader who, if you listen, talks sense. The sort of sense that offers the chance to say yes or no to a final say on leaving the EU or not, instead of telling us what we actually want. I always ask one question when I hear "I can't vote for someone like Corbyn". Which one of his policies do you disagree with? The vast majority of the time, they can't name one and often just say "well he's a prat" etc. Some people do say the policies they disagree with and that's fair enough.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 20:37:33 GMT 1
Any evidence for any of that? Probably some load of b******s on Unherd or Guido Fawkes. The Tories: "We must get Brexit done" "We must make sure Corbyn does not get in". Probable meaning: " don't look too closely at what we want to 'get Brexit done' to enable us to do" and "Not at all sure we can promote Boris as a credible Prime Minister for the Next Five Years, so let's just try to make the leader of the opposition look like a worse choice"
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 20:43:19 GMT 1
Has anyone who says "Can't vote for Corbyn" ever actually listened to what he says? He may have been a young firebrand leftie, but he's been honed into a more realistic mature leader who, if you listen, talks sense. The sort of sense that offers the chance to say yes or no to a final say on leaving the EU or not, instead of telling us what we actually want. I always ask one question when I hear "I can't vote for someone like Corbyn". Which one of his policies do you disagree with? The vast majority of the time, they can't name one and often just say "well he's a prat" etc. Some people do say the policies they disagree with and that's fair enough. Maainly, cos he does not know himself what his policies are!!
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 20:53:09 GMT 1
I always ask one question when I hear "I can't vote for someone like Corbyn". Which one of his policies do you disagree with? The vast majority of the time, they can't name one and often just say "well he's a prat" etc. Some people do say the policies they disagree with and that's fair enough. Maainly, cos he does not know himself what his policies are!! After the polarised politics we have been subjected to in recent years having an open mind and being prepared to change is a welcome relief and exactly what we need.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 21:08:20 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 21:19:11 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 1, 2019 21:32:22 GMT 1
Must be allowed a certain amount of views, as I got the lot without paywall. Perhaps too much, the gist is in the first paragraph. He does write some good stuff about the machinations of parliament though.
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Post by Worthingshrew on Nov 1, 2019 21:40:51 GMT 1
Says a lot that the current party is too right wing for a Thatcherite.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Nov 1, 2019 22:22:57 GMT 1
Conservatives for me all day long and yes for many years I did vote for Labour. However I cannot vote for Labour whilst Jeremy Corbyn is in charge. I have no confidence in him delivering on Brexit. It is without question an individuals right to vote for who they want to. But, anyone trotting out this tired old trope needs calling out. And they need calling out on the charge of crass hypocrisy. No one, other than a resident of Islington votes for Corbyn. No one. When someone comes out with this horse s**t (and they are always life-long labour supporters apparently...yeah right !) what they are really saying is that they do not support Labours manifesto of supporting/protecting the NHS, investing in Public Services, restoring Police levels across the country, tackling head on the massive issue of tax evasion by multi-national companies, taking failing private companies back into public ownership et al. That is what they are saying, but to say it they they need some sort of pseudo justification for diverting what they really mean, and that is that they intend voting for a political party that believes in the exact opposite. Vote for this venal, rancid, feral bunch of spunk trumpets if you wish, no problem with that, but at least have the b******s to state that’s what you stand for. What a load of horse poo. Make your point without then falling into the same old trap of having a go at others point of view .... dear oh dear
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 22:26:49 GMT 1
It is without question an individuals right to vote for who they want to. But, anyone trotting out this tired old trope needs calling out. And they need calling out on the charge of crass hypocrisy. No one, other than a resident of Islington votes for Corbyn. No one. When someone comes out with this horse s**t (and they are always life-long labour supporters apparently...yeah right !) what they are really saying is that they do not support Labours manifesto of supporting/protecting the NHS, investing in Public Services, restoring Police levels across the country, tackling head on the massive issue of tax evasion by multi-national companies, taking failing private companies back into public ownership et al. That is what they are saying, but to say it they they need some sort of pseudo justification for diverting what they really mean, and that is that they intend voting for a political party that believes in the exact opposite. Vote for this venal, rancid, feral bunch of spunk trumpets if you wish, no problem with that, but at least have the b******s to state that’s what you stand for. What a load of horse poo. Make your point without then falling into the same old trap of having a go at others point of view .... dear oh dear But arnt you having a go at someone else’s point of view?
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