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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 20:04:31 GMT 1
How about an electoral pact for this board?
Let’s: • have a proper debate over the new few weeks. • listen to what others are saying and respond fairly • assume that everyone’s acting in good faith even if we disagree • try and back-up arguments with evidence • try and find the humour in it all
Let the sport commence! Politics isn't a sport. Political discussions can kill people.
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GE 2019
Oct 31, 2019 20:31:59 GMT 1
Post by shrewsace on Oct 31, 2019 20:31:59 GMT 1
So, Labour and Tories neck-and-neck at the time of typing.
Wonder who the Lib Dems wound throw their weight behind if this microcosmic hung-parliament came to pass in reality.
Let me guess, it begins with 'C' and ends with 'onservatives' doesn't it, Jo?
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Post by TheFoz on Oct 31, 2019 20:46:38 GMT 1
So, Labour and Tories neck-and-neck at the time of typing. Wonder who the Lib Dems wound throw their weight behind if this microcosmic hung-parliament came to pass in reality. Let me guess, it begins with 'C' and ends with 'onservatives' doesn't it, Jo? Surely as they are a remain party, they couldn’t possibly go into a coalition with the Conservatives? I agree that it looks like they could, with some of the stuff Swinson has been saying, but surely that would betray so many of their voters?
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GE 2019
Oct 31, 2019 20:59:49 GMT 1
Post by neilsalop on Oct 31, 2019 20:59:49 GMT 1
I see that the delightful Mr Farage is not going to put up any candidates in Conservative seats, but will in every Labour seat. If that doesn't tell you what he stands for nothing will. He is a right wing Tory by any other name.
On the upside the Greens aren't putting anyone up in any Tory held Scottish constituency bar one, have also agreed not to one up in a few Tory marginals where the incumbent has a tiny majority. Hopefully they will not stand in Telford and we can get rid of the useless Lucy Allan.
And before anyone bothers to point out the double standards here, there is a vast difference between two parties that stand for social justice not working against each other and two parties that are backed by billionaires and Donald Trump.
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GE 2019
Oct 31, 2019 21:28:42 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 21:28:42 GMT 1
So, Labour and Tories neck-and-neck at the time of typing. Wonder who the Lib Dems wound throw their weight behind if this microcosmic hung-parliament came to pass in reality. Let me guess, it begins with 'C' and ends with 'onservatives' doesn't it, Jo? Surely as they are a remain party, they couldn’t possibly go into a coalition with the Conservatives? I agree that it looks like they could, with some of the stuff Swinson has been saying, but surely that would betray so many of their voters? Surprising how quick the Lib Dem’s would drop their draws and reach for the lube for a sniff of power.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 31, 2019 21:34:56 GMT 1
Could "remain" be Swinson's "tuition fees"? Probably, yes.
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Post by Valerioch on Oct 31, 2019 21:37:32 GMT 1
I see that the delightful Mr Farage is not going to put up any candidates in Conservative seats, but will in every Labour seat. If that doesn't tell you what he stands for nothing will. He is a right wing Tory by any other name.
On the upside the Greens aren't putting anyone up in any Tory held Scottish constituency bar one, have also agreed not to one up in a few Tory marginals where the incumbent has a tiny majority. Hopefully they will not stand in Telford and we can get rid of the useless Lucy Allan.
And before anyone bothers to point out the double standards here, there is a vast difference between two parties that stand for social justice not working against each other and two parties that are backed by billionaires and Donald Trump.
I’ll do it! Double standards, and hypocritical in the extreme. Embarrassing
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2019 21:39:00 GMT 1
So, Labour and Tories neck-and-neck at the time of typing. Wonder who the Lib Dems wound throw their weight behind if this microcosmic hung-parliament came to pass in reality. Let me guess, it begins with 'C' and ends with 'onservatives' doesn't it, Jo? Surely as they are a remain party, they couldn’t possibly go into a coalition with the Conservatives? I agree that it looks like they could, with some of the stuff Swinson has been saying, but surely that would betray so many of their voters? Of course she will. Anything remotely left-wing gets Swinson in a twist. And, look at her voting record in coalition.
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Post by neilsalop on Oct 31, 2019 21:43:56 GMT 1
I see that the delightful Mr Farage is not going to put up any candidates in Conservative seats, but will in every Labour seat. If that doesn't tell you what he stands for nothing will. He is a right wing Tory by any other name.
On the upside the Greens aren't putting anyone up in any Tory held Scottish constituency bar one, have also agreed not to one up in a few Tory marginals where the incumbent has a tiny majority. Hopefully they will not stand in Telford and we can get rid of the useless Lucy Allan.
And before anyone bothers to point out the double standards here, there is a vast difference between two parties that stand for social justice not working against each other and two parties that are backed by billionaires and Donald Trump.
I’ll do it! Double standards, and hypocritical in the extreme. Embarrassing Shocked that you beat salop27 to the punch. So the Greens stepping back in a handful of constituencies is equal to Brexit Party PLC not standing against any Tory? Okay then.
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GE 2019
Oct 31, 2019 22:03:10 GMT 1
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Post by salop27 on Oct 31, 2019 22:03:10 GMT 1
I see that the delightful Mr Farage is not going to put up any candidates in Conservative seats, but will in every Labour seat. If that doesn't tell you what he stands for nothing will. He is a right wing Tory by any other name.
On the upside the Greens aren't putting anyone up in any Tory held Scottish constituency bar one, have also agreed not to one up in a few Tory marginals where the incumbent has a tiny majority. Hopefully they will not stand in Telford and we can get rid of the useless Lucy Allan.
And before anyone bothers to point out the double standards here, there is a vast difference between two parties that stand for social justice not working against each other and two parties that are backed by billionaires and Donald Trump.
Jumping the gun a bit here. Farage hasn't decided on a strategy yet.
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Oct 31, 2019 22:21:32 GMT 1
Labour.
I value the NHS.
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GE 2019
Oct 31, 2019 22:47:25 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 31, 2019 22:47:25 GMT 1
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Post by Worthingshrew on Oct 31, 2019 23:46:44 GMT 1
I wouldn’t vote for the lying buffoon if his name was the only name on the voting paper, and voting was compulsory.
And I won’t vote Labour with Corbyn in charge, and Momentum pulling the strings.
Lib Dem’s for me this time.
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Post by neilsalop on Nov 1, 2019 8:50:12 GMT 1
I'd like to ask any Tory voters a simple question, why?
Take the Brexit conundrum out of the picture and there is no reason to vote Conservative that I can see.
I am happy to be educated, so please knock yourselves out.
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 10:30:08 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 10:30:08 GMT 1
Well, we know where Trump stands... on a stick, and people wonder why politics has got nasty...
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Post by sheltonsalopian on Nov 1, 2019 10:38:04 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour?
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Post by northwestman on Nov 1, 2019 10:38:46 GMT 1
Another election, another Labour candidate to support.
My sister is trying for the 4th time to win a Labour held seat for the Conservatives. 3 times she's failed, and I'm hoping this will be the 4th.
She's now parroting 'let's get Brexit done' as much as she churned out the 'strong and stable' mantra in the 2017 election.
The Tory strategists clearly regard the majority of the general public as idiots, where the penny will only drop if all their candidates repeat the same thing over and over again. Well, it didn't work in 2017.
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 10:45:02 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 10:45:02 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour? That was tried with Blair and Brown. Look how that panned out. The Third Way, was the t*** way and the start of NHS sell offs and two wars
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 1, 2019 10:47:26 GMT 1
Awww that's nice. But you really don't need to make the effort on my behalf... Anyhow, as for the slogan; It'll be referring to a parliament that has spent the last three years doing all it can to avoid the result of a referendum that they said would honour and implement. I think that will very much resonate with those that Johnson is looking to tempt over to the Tories, very much goes hand in hand with "Get Brexit Done". As to whether it'll work, we wait and see...but I think its a given that for many people within the UK this current parliament isn't exactly seen in a shining light. Its playing into the 'parliament versus the people' narrative...
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 10:49:28 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 10:49:28 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour? The centre is polling less than centre left labour and right wing conservatives.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 11:00:00 GMT 1
I'd like to ask any Tory voters a simple question, why?
Take the Brexit conundrum out of the picture and there is no reason to vote Conservative that I can see.
I am happy to be educated, so please knock yourselves out.
I will come back with... how very condescending... people can disagree and you can still be respectful of their opinion. you show typucal leftiest entiltlment attitute and arrogance. But to answer a simple question of WHY, i will respond with a simple one word answer... CORBYN
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 1, 2019 11:07:54 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour? Corbyn (and one or two of those around him) never thought in a millions years that he would be in the position that he is in now. I've no doubt about that. And because of that, he simply has too much baggage. Perhaps not with the younger supporters who have gravitated to Labour since he became leader but I would certainly think for those of a certain age. I think if you want to understand why so many are turned off Corbyn then you only need look to the Ian Austin speech given in parliament a short time back. I think that is how many people see him and why they specifically speak of Corbyn when it comes to backing Labour. At any other time I do not believe that the Tories would now be in the position they now find themselves in, looking favorites to win the next election. With the length of time they have been in office and the way they have gone about things they shouldn't even be in with a look in. The only reason they are is because of who is making up the opposition. Labour should be a shoe in.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 11:24:57 GMT 1
Purely anecdotal, but it looks like if Labour had a leader closer to the centre they would walk this election? Not saying it is the right thing to do but most people I talk to say they'd like to vote labour but won't because of Corbyn, now you can argue it's all because of smears by the media but it looks to me like the majority of Britain are looking for a centrist labour? Corbyn (and one or two of those around him) never thought in a millions years that he would be in the position that he is in now. I've no doubt about that. And because of that, he simply has too much baggage. Perhaps not with the younger supporters who have gravitated to Labour since he became leader but I would certainly think for those of a certain age. Labour under corbyn increased their voting share of every single age category in 2017...
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 11:36:42 GMT 1
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Post by lenny on Nov 1, 2019 11:36:42 GMT 1
Awww that's nice. But you really don't need to make the effort on my behalf... Anyhow, as for the slogan; It'll be referring to a parliament that has spent the last three years doing all it can to avoid the result of a referendum that they said would honour and implement. I think that will very much resonate with those that Johnson is looking to tempt over to the Tories, very much goes hand in hand with "Get Brexit Done". As to whether it'll work, we wait and see...but I think its a given that for many people within the UK this current parliament isn't exactly seen in a shining light. Its playing into the 'parliament versus the people' narrative... But Parliament hasn't spent three years doing that. There is a small hardcore who are vocally against Brexit and vote down everything, yes, just like the ERG and DUP whose intransigence meant they voted down every deal. In fact, that seems to have been rather reflective of the array of views of the general public where no option has a majority behind it - democracy in action. As for where my vote will be going, I really don't know. Fundamental disagreements rule out the Conservatives and Farage and I have lost patience with Corbyn/the influence of a handful of advisors. Swinson is uninspiring. Potentially I'll vote Green but then I don't see a huge amount of alignment between my views and theirs past environmental issues. Maybe I'll decide after reading the manifestos, radical idea though that may be.
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 11:37:20 GMT 1
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Post by frankwellshrews on Nov 1, 2019 11:37:20 GMT 1
Awww that's nice. But you really don't need to make the effort on my behalf... Anyhow, as for the slogan; It'll be referring to a parliament that has spent the last three years doing all it can to avoid the result of a referendum that they said would honour and implement. I think that will very much resonate with those that Johnson is looking to tempt over to the Tories, very much goes hand in hand with "Get Brexit Done". As to whether it'll work, we wait and see...but I think its a given that for many people within the UK this current parliament isn't exactly seen in a shining light. Its playing into the 'parliament versus the people' narrative... Goes well with "Get Brexit Done" in that it doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny you mean? Still, all that matters is it's a simple three word slogan people can throw around ad nauseam in place of having to have any actual opinions themselves. Here's what a well known German politician had to say about this approach; "The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan."
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 1, 2019 11:50:45 GMT 1
Awww that's nice. But you really don't need to make the effort on my behalf... Anyhow, as for the slogan; It'll be referring to a parliament that has spent the last three years doing all it can to avoid the result of a referendum that they said would honour and implement. I think that will very much resonate with those that Johnson is looking to tempt over to the Tories, very much goes hand in hand with "Get Brexit Done". As to whether it'll work, we wait and see...but I think its a given that for many people within the UK this current parliament isn't exactly seen in a shining light. Its playing into the 'parliament versus the people' narrative... Goes well with "Get Brexit Done" in that it doesn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny you mean? Still, all that matters is it's a simple three word slogan people can throw around ad nauseam in place of having to have any actual opinions themselves. Here's what a well known German politician had to say about this approach; "The receptivity of the masses is very limited, their intelligence is small, but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand by your slogan." I'm sure it will resonate with many. And I'm pretty sure all the parties will be deploying slogans. That's how these things tend to work. And Hitler? So let me get this right from the off, you are comparing the Tories to the Nazis? Is that what you are doing?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 11:53:22 GMT 1
If Corbyn had baggage, heaven knows what Johnson has got...
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 1, 2019 11:57:33 GMT 1
Corbyn (and one or two of those around him) never thought in a millions years that he would be in the position that he is in now. I've no doubt about that. And because of that, he simply has too much baggage. Perhaps not with the younger supporters who have gravitated to Labour since he became leader but I would certainly think for those of a certain age. Labour under corbyn increased their voting share of every single age category in 2017... And May saw a huge turnout in support for the Tories. So yes, people went out to vote for Corbyn. More however, went out to vote for someone else in order to keep him out. We all know how an election works, it's all well and good having someone who will generate an increase of support for your party...but not if that very same leader results in generating support for someone else. Surely you understand that? Corbyn is divisive; for the numbers he gets to vote for him others will make sure they go out to vote against him. May had one of the best vote share going didn't she? I've no doubt the prospect of Corbyn as PM more than helped in that.
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Post by another fine mess on Nov 1, 2019 12:00:38 GMT 1
How about an electoral pact for this board?
Let’s: • have a proper debate over the new few weeks. • listen to what others are saying and respond fairly • assume that everyone’s acting in good faith even if we disagree • try and back-up arguments with evidence • try and find the humour in it all
Let the sport commence! Politics isn't a sport. Political discussions can kill people. Lighten-up Nicko!
No one’s killing anyone on this board.
Can’t we all enjoy some friendly debate? If you don’t enjoy it, you don’t have to take part.
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GE 2019
Nov 1, 2019 12:02:10 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2019 12:02:10 GMT 1
Labour under corbyn increased their voting share of every single age category in 2017... And May saw a huge turnout in support for the Tories. So yes, people went out to vote for Corbyn. More however, went out to vote for someone else in order to keep him out. We all know how an election works, it's all well and good having someone who will generate an increase of support for your party...but not if that very same leader results in generating support for someone else. Surely you understand that? Corbyn is divisive; for the numbers he gets to vote for him others will make sure they go out to vote against him. May had one of the best vote share going didn't she? I've no doubt the prospect of Corbyn as PM more than helped in that. We can all make sweeping statements stutty. It turns out more people voted for Labour government than in 2015 and 2010 accross all age categories. So perhaps corbyn is not quite the repel you claim him to be.
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