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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 19, 2019 7:20:23 GMT 1
seperatists jailed, a referendum banned , a judge orders the closuer of web sites linked to pro independance groups.mass protests with police brutally beating protesters , you whould think this is the totalitarian regime of China but it's actually spain.
in Catalonia Independence is a highly divisive issue, but the recent prison sentances has created a lot of resentment. Spain's constitution prohibits any breakaway and Catalonia signed up to that constitution when it was drafted not many years ago. These demonstrators must therefore first argue for and be granted, a change in the Spanish constitution before any legal change in Catalonia's position can be secured.considering the responce by spain to the referendum i doubt that will happen.
with all the complications of brexit i doubt that the PM will rock the boat.
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Post by frankwellshrews on Oct 19, 2019 8:27:24 GMT 1
The authoritarian actions are a handy reminder of just how recently Spain was a dictatorship. Takes a while to filter those tendencies out of institutions like the police etc.
That said;
- support for pro independence parties peaked at 48% in 2017 and currently stands at around 44%;
- the referendum from 2017 was problematic. Half the polling stations never opened, the pro Madrid faction refused to recognise it and it produced a result so obviousky skewed it would embarass Nicolas Maduro let alone an aspiring EU nation;
The whole thing wreaks of putting the cart before the horse in short. I'm not supporting the actions of central government (who probably could have squashed this by just allowing a referendum in the first place) but by the same token the issue isn't as clear cut as some (particularly on the brexity side of things) would like us to believe.
Incidentally there are firecast to be close ro double that number of protestors on the streets of London today.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2019 9:55:17 GMT 1
Some of the footage of the police going after demonstrators is pretty shocking. Really nasty stuff. It's a strange one when looking from the outside in, mixed feelings I guess (because of what Frankwell describes above). It's difficult to get your head around what has since gone on around those who were involved in the independence move; the way they were got after, the draconian (to me anyhow) sentences handed down. But then perhaps we don't understand the severity of this, or rather the severity as they see it...perhaps because of their history, perhaps because of ours. But the whole thing looks pretty ugly, from start to finish. Just think neither side is coming out of it well with the way they have gone about things.
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Post by zenfootball2 on Oct 19, 2019 10:18:57 GMT 1
Some of the footage of the police going after demonstrators is pretty shocking. Really nasty stuff. It's a strange one when looking from the outside in, mixed feelings I guess (because of what Frankwell describes above). It's difficult to get your head around what has since gone on around those who were involved in the independence move; the way they were got after, the draconian (to me anyhow) sentences handed down. But then perhaps we don't understand the severity of this, or rather the severity as they see it...perhaps because of their history, perhaps because of ours. But the whole thing looks pretty ugly, from start to finish. Just think neither side is coming out of it well with the way they have gone about things. when you are looking at events unfolding from the prism of media coverage and living in another country it seems very strange that in heart of a democratic europe such events take place. whilst neither side has come out of this very well, the Spanish goverment have refused to negotiate( which is problamatic as they will need to change the consitution) and refused to recognize the refrendum. whilst jailing Catalan separatist leaders .
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 19, 2019 10:20:49 GMT 1
Some of the footage of the police going after demonstrators is pretty shocking. Really nasty stuff. It's a strange one when looking from the outside in, mixed feelings I guess (because of what Frankwell describes above). It's difficult to get your head around what has since gone on around those who were involved in the independence move; the way they were got after, the draconian (to me anyhow) sentences handed down. But then perhaps we don't understand the severity of this, or rather the severity as they see it...perhaps because of their history, perhaps because of ours. But the whole thing looks pretty ugly, from start to finish. Just think neither side is coming out of it well with the way they have gone about things. when you are looking at events unfolding from the prism of media coverage and living in another country it seems very strange that in heart of a democratic europe such events take place. Yep, I think you have it spot on there.
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