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Post by percy on Jun 16, 2019 20:51:32 GMT 1
just watched the C4 hustings. They were very nice to each other generally and it seemed a bit of an anti-Boris club. A couple of shots were taken against Rory Stewart but generally very very civil.
Raab seemed a bit out of his depth and Sajid Javid was a bit of a bore overplaying his impoverished background - looks to be between Hunt, Gove and Stewart to me. But what’s the point when we know that Boris will win ?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jun 16, 2019 20:58:09 GMT 1
I didn't watch it so can't comment on the evenings goings on but I like a fair bit of what Rory Stewart has to say, he comes across quite well. I suspect that is why, just as Johnson does, he cops a bit of flack. When it comes to the leadership, whether now or in time, I think people see him as a threat...
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Post by northwestman on Jun 16, 2019 21:07:02 GMT 1
Remainer Tories need a peg to hang their hat on. Stewart seems the obvious one, although Hunt is likely to get more votes from the MPs and is already vacillating about extending the October cut off point to goodness knows when.
Nothing the Remainers like more than someone continually kicking the can down the road.
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Post by neilsalop on Jun 16, 2019 21:25:31 GMT 1
Shame no-one turned up with a tub of lard.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 16, 2019 21:35:07 GMT 1
I watched. The verdict of those on Twitter afterwards was overwhelmingly that Stewart "won". For what my non-Tory opinion is worth, he seemed to me the only one capable of reaching out to non-Tory voters and was head and shoulders more impressive - and human- than the rest.
Gove was a ridiculous figure, never more so than when he said that brexit wasn't one man's ego trip (meaning Farage), having earlier claimed that "I won the referendum". A busted flush.
Javid was ok, though his non-elite, outsider schtick wears a bit thin coming from someone who was apparently paid £3m a year by Deutsche Bank.
Hunt was what you'd expect; bland, dull, uninspiring. Funniest thing was his comment, later tweeted, that "every older person should die with dignity and respect", which sounds like a rather more menacing policy than he intended (I hope!) -that'll scare off a lot of Tory members!
Raab was predictably idiotic, a macho willy-waver. Going nowhere - Esther McVey in a suit.
A few observations: 1. Nobody offered any clarity on brexit - the usual no deal machismo or "I will renegotiate the deal that isn't open to renegotiation" bluster. 2. They all seemed obsessed with Corbyn, which doesn't suggest much putting country before party is going on (surprise!). 3. They all want to improve services - social care, education, health. If only they'd been in a position to do something about this at any time during the last nine years! 4. Johnson seems arrogant and entitled by dipping out of this - like he thinks he's the Premier League team waiting for the 3rd round draw. I hope that blows up in his face.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2019 21:49:56 GMT 1
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Post by WATR on Jun 16, 2019 22:19:56 GMT 1
Yeah but he's well spoken and comes across as a decent bloke. So who cares about the fact he's always voted to make life more difficult for the poorest in society?
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Post by venceremos on Jun 16, 2019 22:43:40 GMT 1
Yeah but he's well spoken and comes across as a decent bloke. So who cares about the fact he's always voted to make life more difficult for the poorest in society? Well they are all Tories - everything's relative!
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Post by thesensationaljt on Jun 16, 2019 23:15:23 GMT 1
Bugger, I mist tit, I was watching some paint dry.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 17, 2019 9:09:22 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 17, 2019 9:19:39 GMT 1
Mr Hunt might slightly regret the way he said, “Every older person should die with dignity. We should be the party that sorts it out.”
That's his core voters he's talking about!
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Post by lenny on Jun 17, 2019 10:46:19 GMT 1
Yeah but he's well spoken and comes across as a decent bloke. So who cares about the fact he's always voted to make life more difficult for the poorest in society? Well they are all Tories - everything's relative! I don't hold voting in line with your party against an MP necessarily and I do really like Stewart. He's not the right choice for the Tories now because they need to have their Brexit moment in the sun but in their next leadership decision he'll surely be a standout (or perhaps for the Lib Dems...). He's the only one offering imaginative solutions to Brexit that may actually work, and is a clearly very intelligent guy with a broader appeal than the other contenders. The kind of leader the Tories will need if they're to ever win an election again after Brexit.
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Post by percy on Jun 17, 2019 11:08:00 GMT 1
Well they are all Tories - everything's relative! I don't hold voting in line with your party against an MP necessarily and I do really like Stewart. He's not the right choice for the Tories now because they need to have their Brexit moment in the sun but in their next leadership decision he'll surely be a standout (or perhaps for the Lib Dems...). He's the only one offering imaginative solutions to Brexit that may actually work, and is a clearly very intelligent guy with a broader appeal than the other contenders. The kind of leader the Tories will need if they're to ever win an election again after Brexit. Stewart has been pretty clear that he will not serve under Boris so he faces time in the wilderness and the risk that the Tories are knocked out for a generation for either a) not delivering Brexit or b) delivering Brexit and it not being the return to the halcyon days that the over 50s remember from their childhoods. Could he defect to LibDem ? Anything is possible but they are leaning more to the left now so it would be a real stretch. In short - this is his chance to shine [as I agree he has a good communication style and appears to listen and take on board other views (oh, if only Corbyn would do the same)] but he needs to make the most of it because soon Boris will be in charge of the Tory asylum.
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Post by lenny on Jun 17, 2019 11:14:54 GMT 1
I don't hold voting in line with your party against an MP necessarily and I do really like Stewart. He's not the right choice for the Tories now because they need to have their Brexit moment in the sun but in their next leadership decision he'll surely be a standout (or perhaps for the Lib Dems...). He's the only one offering imaginative solutions to Brexit that may actually work, and is a clearly very intelligent guy with a broader appeal than the other contenders. The kind of leader the Tories will need if they're to ever win an election again after Brexit. Stewart has been pretty clear that he will not serve under Boris so he faces time in the wilderness and the risk that the Tories are knocked out for a generation for either a) not delivering Brexit or b) delivering Brexit and it not being the return to the halcyon days that the over 50s remember from their childhoods. Could he defect to LibDem ? Anything is possible but they are leaning more to the left now so it would be a real stretch. In short - this is his chance to shine [as I agree he has a good communication style and appears to listen and take on board other views (oh, if only Corbyn would do the same)] but he needs to make the most of it because soon Boris will be in charge of the Tory asylum. I'll be interested to see how the Lib Dems evolve over the next few years - under Swinson, presumably. They really need to maintain their momentum and it's not just enough to be an anti-Brexit party in the long term. Swinson is more fiscally conservative than most Labour moderates and is unapologetic about the coalition's economic aims. I envisage the Lib Dems becoming more like where the Conservatives had looked as though they might be headed 5 years or so ago: socially liberal, pro-Business but of course more left-wing and without the Eurosceptic faction. If Boris drives a hard Brexit he'll rupture the party and I could envisage plenty of europhile moderates aligning with the Lib Dems in that case, but if he doesn't then he'll fail to extinguish Farage's flame.
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Jun 17, 2019 11:28:28 GMT 1
And here is me thinking this was a thread about a new striker.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 17, 2019 14:58:05 GMT 1
Remainer Tories need a peg to hang their hat on. Stewart seems the obvious one, although Hunt is likely to get more votes from the MPs and is already vacillating about extending the October cut off point to goodness knows when. Nothing the Remainers like more than someone continually kicking the can down the road. Looks like I was pretty much on the mark here. Stewart is now 10/1 2nd favourite with the bookies on the strength of some good media appearances. Hunt now 16/1, Gove 25/1, Raab and Javid 50/1. Boris is 1/6 favourite.
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Post by venceremos on Jun 18, 2019 18:28:56 GMT 1
Raab's out. No surprise - he looked the weakest of the debaters on Sunday.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 18, 2019 19:11:17 GMT 1
Rumour has it that Boris's campaign manager Gavin Williamson (who of course was once Chief Whip and knows where the bodies are buried) is working flat out to ensure that Stewart doesn't make the final two.
The Johnson camp want a run off against Hunt, who they feel confident will be comfortably rejected by the Membership. It's even been suggested that Boris will lend Hunt some of his votes to make sure he gets through!
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Post by percy on Jun 18, 2019 19:35:58 GMT 1
It’s a shame that Javid got through - you could see his supporters going to Stewart, making him the anti-Boris candidate which would have made the run in far more entertaining.
If the Boris team really are manipulating who comes second to avoid a debate with someone prepared to be honest it is another nail in the coffin for politics in this country.
The IDS interview on TV just now Showa the contempt that the Tories have for parliament - relying on the EU treaty to frustrate the uk parliament; ironic.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 20:44:29 GMT 1
It’s quite nauseating how javid and gove are falling over themselves to stress how ordinary they are and how they know how hard life is for working families.
And hunt saying we leave it far too late to intervene in mental health and how we’ve cut too much from budgets.
People love having a dig at Corbyn and Abbott, but this bunch of vipers really are turning my stomach.
Boris has just dropped into the conversation TWICE that his great grandfather was a Muslim immigrant. Who knew?
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Post by DiglisShrew on Jun 18, 2019 20:52:32 GMT 1
Interesting that Boris remembered and addressed every questioner by name except the Iman who’s name he couldn’t remember I got the impression he wasn’t concentrating at that point or wasn’t interested!
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Post by Worthingshrew on Jun 18, 2019 20:55:04 GMT 1
Stewart is setting himself apart at every opportunity. Interesting to see how that goes.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 20:59:13 GMT 1
Interesting that Boris remembered and addressed every questioner by name except the Iman who’s name he couldn’t remember I got the impression he wasn’t concentrating at that point or wasn’t interested! Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that.
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Post by percy on Jun 18, 2019 21:01:37 GMT 1
That was a train wreck - what a bunch.
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Post by mattmw on Jun 18, 2019 21:10:33 GMT 1
That was a train wreck - what a bunch. I had rather optimistically hoped that at some stage someone sensible might step forward and take hold of the brexit process. That optimism died tonight. We're in big big trouble. Not a thing has been learned by any of them in three years we've moved no where. Time to research how to get an Irish passport
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Post by trojanskin on Jun 18, 2019 21:25:55 GMT 1
BJ is a total idiot. Based in that showing alone how/why would anyone of sound mind vote for him?!
But it'll happen.
In a world where Trump is President, BJ will become our leader.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 21:30:39 GMT 1
I have so little interest in politics these days that I’d hoped Tory Hustings was a new right back signed from Dulwich Hamlets 😂
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Post by simianbenzoate on Jun 18, 2019 21:31:07 GMT 1
BJ is a total idiot. Based in that showing alone how/why would anyone of sound mind vote for him?! But it'll happen. In a world where Trump is President, BJ will become our leader. he even seems to have tango'ed himself up for the big occasion.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 21:40:20 GMT 1
I have so little interest in politics these days that I’d hoped Tory Hustings was a new right back signed from Dulwich Hamlets 😂 And Hertz Van Rental is our new Dutch striker.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 18, 2019 21:56:45 GMT 1
Stewart is setting himself apart at every opportunity. Interesting to see how that goes. That's exactly why Boris and his team will be focused on making damned certain he doesn't get on the final ballot. I'm sure they've identified him as their main threat. A secret ballot is easy to manipulate. Raab has already noted that MPs who said they'd vote for him didn't. Boris and his sidekick Williamson have the firepower available to them to make sure that a few votes originally allocated to Boris are switched to Hunt instead in the next vote. Whilst not seriously damaging Boris's lead, such extra votes for Hunt could prove fatal to Stewart's chances.
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