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Post by salop27 on Jul 23, 2019 17:35:25 GMT 1
Difficult to see how a GE is not on the horizon with a wafer thin majority and a divided party sniping away at Boris. No idea which way that would go. It seems that way but what would a general election solve? Likely to end up in the same pickle. It would be interesting though as Labour would finally have to nail their colours to leave or remain.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 17:54:41 GMT 1
Which political pundits seem to pin on Boris putting Trump before Britain by not supporting our diplomatic representative. He said he was misinterpreted, but that's something that should not happen to our PM, he needs to be clear and categoric, something that I don't think Boris has in his skillset. Johnson has a skillset? Yes he does. His skillset is that he was born into unrelenting privilege and has continued to fall upwards ever since. Talented guy if you ask me.
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Post by martinshrew on Jul 23, 2019 17:57:31 GMT 1
Be interesting to see who his cabinet is made up of. I think he'd be wise in including Hunt, that would unite the party.
Excited and hopeful of seeing Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg and Patel involved.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 18:10:56 GMT 1
Again, this is what you said. "The bigger issue is laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership." Read more: blueandamber.proboards.com/user/4422/recent#ixzz5uW6e6qi3Which is a lie spread by you and other Brexiters. Like Farage's "independence day" BS. Laws can be make and that has been proven. You, have changed to 'impact' which is fine, it does, but as pointed out, it can impact in a positive way as well as negative. And, yes, of course I'm happy with that. I voted remain. Except it's not a lie but I think strangely you are suggesting I have said no laws can ever be made because of EU membership when I've actually said no such thing. You've basically completely minsinterpreted my statement and then gone out of your way to prove a statement that I'd not made in the first place wrong. It looks pretty clear to me, but there you go. You crack on.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 18:12:03 GMT 1
Difficult to see how a GE is not on the horizon with a wafer thin majority and a divided party sniping away at Boris. No idea which way that would go. It seems that way but what would a general election solve? Likely to end up in the same pickle. It would be interesting though as Labour would finally have to nail their colours to leave or remain. I agree, a hung parliament more than likely. And I agree about Labour. At least I know where the Greens stand.
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Post by mattmw on Jul 23, 2019 18:16:58 GMT 1
Be interesting to see who his cabinet is made up of. I think he'd be wise in including Hunt, that would unite the party. Excited and hopeful of seeing Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg and Patel involved. There is some gossip locally that dear Daniel Kawczynski may finally get offered a minor ministerial role after years as an MP with no formal government job. That would be a sign the country is moving in the right direction
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 18:35:14 GMT 1
Except it's not a lie but I think strangely you are suggesting I have said no laws can ever be made because of EU membership when I've actually said no such thing. You've basically completely minsinterpreted my statement and then gone out of your way to prove a statement that I'd not made in the first place wrong. It looks pretty clear to me, but there you go. You crack on. It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 23, 2019 19:02:54 GMT 1
Be interesting to see who his cabinet is made up of. I think he'd be wise in including Hunt, that would unite the party. Excited and hopeful of seeing Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg and Patel involved. There is some gossip locally that dear Daniel Kawczynski may finally get offered a minor ministerial role after years as an MP with no formal government job. That would be a sign the country is moving in the right direction Boris will be pretty desperate to fill all those posts with MP's who can stand to work with him. Are the bookies giving odds on how long till Boris' first cock-up? Would giving dopey Danny any sort of responsibility count as a cock-up?
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 23, 2019 19:07:45 GMT 1
Be interesting to see who his cabinet is made up of. I think he'd be wise in including Hunt, that would unite the party. Excited and hopeful of seeing Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg and Patel involved. There is some gossip locally that dear Daniel Kawczynski may finally get offered a minor ministerial role after years as an MP with no formal government job. That would be a sign the country is moving in the right direction Someone please tell me that the above posts are satire, please.
Francois, Kawczynski and Patel on front bench should terrify everyone.
Patel supports the Israeli government and its apartheid regime that shoots children, destroys homes, steals land and treats Palestinians as third class citizens.
Kawczynski isn't known as the Right Honourable Memebr for Riyadh for no reason. The Saudi led, British backed Yemeni annihilation should be Britains shame, but then he doesn't seem to have any.
Francois was Minister of State for Defence Personnel, Welfare and Veterans and oversaw a huge rise in the amount of veterans either homeless, in jail or suffering from untreated mental health issues.
Oh yeah, they are all the type of people we need representing our country.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 23, 2019 19:12:30 GMT 1
It looks pretty clear to me, but there you go. You crack on. It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim. Come on then Drew, I'm intrigued. What laws would you like to make that the EU won't let us make?
Bring back corporal punishment in schools perhaps?
The death penalty?
Public floggings?
Little armbands for people that aren't like you?
Sounds familiar.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 19:26:44 GMT 1
It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim. Come on then Drew, I'm intrigued. What laws would you like to make that the EU won't let us make?
Bring back corporal punishment in schools perhaps?
The death penalty?
Public floggings?
Little armbands for people that aren't like you?
Sounds familiar.
I'd like to see: a) more control over VAT such as the ability to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills; b) the ability to help ailing British industries in certain circumstances with some targeted state aid; and c) a move toward a points based immigration system with more focus on inviting those to our county who have skills we need. I'd also like an immigration policy that seeks to foster closer links with the Commonwealth and open up more immigration from counties whom we have had historical links with rather than EU countries whom we have not. Ultimately I want our parliament to have the ability to choose to divert from EU if they so choose. A choice not currently available.
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Post by staffordshrew on Jul 23, 2019 20:30:37 GMT 1
It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim. Come on then Drew, I'm intrigued. What laws would you like to make that the EU won't let us make?
Bring back corporal punishment in schools perhaps?
The death penalty?
Public floggings?
Little armbands for people that aren't like you?
Sounds familiar.
Please can I have an armband that says I'm not like him.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 23, 2019 20:36:22 GMT 1
Come on then Drew, I'm intrigued. What laws would you like to make that the EU won't let us make?
Bring back corporal punishment in schools perhaps?
The death penalty?
Public floggings?
Little armbands for people that aren't like you?
Sounds familiar.
I'd like to see: a) more control over VAT such as the ability to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills; b) the ability to help ailing British industries in certain circumstances with some targeted state aid; and c) a move toward a points based immigration system with more focus on inviting those to our county who have skills we need. I'd also like an immigration policy that seeks to foster closer links with the Commonwealth and open up more immigration from counties whom we have had historical links with rather than EU countries whom we have not. Ultimately I want our parliament to have the ability to choose to divert from EU if they so choose. A choice not currently available. We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 20:46:08 GMT 1
Be interesting to see who his cabinet is made up of. I think he'd be wise in including Hunt, that would unite the party. Excited and hopeful of seeing Francois, Baker, Rees-Mogg and Patel involved. Imagine that!! Throw in Guebels and Pitt the Younger and you’ve a full house!
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Post by highlandshrew on Jul 23, 2019 20:48:39 GMT 1
I'd like to see: a) more control over VAT such as the ability to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills; b) the ability to help ailing British industries in certain circumstances with some targeted state aid; and c) a move toward a points based immigration system with more focus on inviting those to our county who have skills we need. I'd also like an immigration policy that seeks to foster closer links with the Commonwealth and open up more immigration from counties whom we have had historical links with rather than EU countries whom we have not. Ultimately I want our parliament to have the ability to choose to divert from EU if they so choose. A choice not currently available. We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. And the reason we have 5% VAT on domestic fuel at all is because the Tories introduced an 8% tax in 1993 (previously it was 0%). This was later reduced to 5% by a Labour government. There are also ongoing plans to allow all governments in the EU to set 0% VAT rates on certain goods (including domestic fuel) which is due to be voted on later this / early next year. The simple fact is that successive governments have chosen to set VAT at 20%. The suggestion by Michael Gove (and others) that the UK can't reduce it is just nonsense; it has been disproved many times if you just look for it (like HERE).
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Drew
Midland League Division One
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 20:52:26 GMT 1
I'd like to see: a) more control over VAT such as the ability to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills; b) the ability to help ailing British industries in certain circumstances with some targeted state aid; and c) a move toward a points based immigration system with more focus on inviting those to our county who have skills we need. I'd also like an immigration policy that seeks to foster closer links with the Commonwealth and open up more immigration from counties whom we have had historical links with rather than EU countries whom we have not. Ultimately I want our parliament to have the ability to choose to divert from EU if they so choose. A choice not currently available. We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? You basically have no clue what you are talking about. Complete waste of time responding to your fact free drivel.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 21:00:42 GMT 1
We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. And the reason we have 5% VAT on domestic fuel at all is because the Tories introduced an 8% tax in 1993 (previously it was 0%). This was later reduced to 5% by a Labour government. There are also ongoing plans to allow all governments in the EU to set 0% VAT rates on certain goods (including domestic fuel) which is due to be voted on later this / early next year. The simple fact is that successive governments have chosen to set VAT at 20%. The suggestion by Michael Gove (and others) that the UK can't reduce it is just nonsense; it has been disproved many times if you just look for it (like HERE). "Under the EU rules, this (5%) is now the lowest VAT rate possible for British domestic fuel bills" We might not want to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills but it would be nice to have the choice to be able to.
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Post by highlandshrew on Jul 23, 2019 21:06:27 GMT 1
We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? You basically have no clue what you are talking about. Complete waste of time responding to your fact free drivel. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. Under current rules, yes. But there are steps in place to change this at EU level and the only reason we have to charge 5% VAT is because the TORIES introduced a tax on domestic fuel in the first place. FACT!EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? This is simply NOT true. FACT! Try searching for EU State Aid Rules and find out for yourself rather than swallowing the nonsense spouted by those with other agendas (e.g. Johnson making a fool of himself in blaming the EU for introducing additional packaging for kippers, when the FACT was it was the UK government). You basically have no clue what you are talking about. You are obviously an expert in this field, so I'll bow to your superior ability.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 23, 2019 21:08:00 GMT 1
We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? You basically have no clue what you are talking about. Complete waste of time responding to your fact free drivel. I never said we could eliminate VAT. I said we can set the rate. Learn to read. State aid is not allowed, however full or partial state ownership is, but that would be tantamount to nationalisation and the Tories couldn't do that now, could they? Even though the East coast mainline made actual profits for the government and the service improved massively when Stagecoach abandoned the franchise and it was left to the government to run. Funny that. Stop believing everything you see on Facebook and try researching some facts before you spout your drivel on here.
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Post by neilsalop on Jul 23, 2019 21:09:43 GMT 1
And the reason we have 5% VAT on domestic fuel at all is because the Tories introduced an 8% tax in 1993 (previously it was 0%). This was later reduced to 5% by a Labour government. There are also ongoing plans to allow all governments in the EU to set 0% VAT rates on certain goods (including domestic fuel) which is due to be voted on later this / early next year. The simple fact is that successive governments have chosen to set VAT at 20%. The suggestion by Michael Gove (and others) that the UK can't reduce it is just nonsense; it has been disproved many times if you just look for it (like HERE). "Under the EU rules, this (5%) is now the lowest VAT rate possible for British domestic fuel bills" We might not want to eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills but it would be nice to have the choice to be able to. Who is we? The Tory party? Did I mention the word deluded?
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Post by northwestman on Jul 23, 2019 21:13:18 GMT 1
"Those are my principles and if you don't like them, well I have others". Groucho Marx
Can easily apply to Amber Rudd. No morals, no integrity, utterly self serving, total disregard of the fate of the country and the people she represents. She'll fit in well!
And there are plenty of others, for example Matt Hancock, who has indulged in some serious backtracking and grovelling.
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 21:23:10 GMT 1
We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? You basically have no clue what you are talking about. Complete waste of time responding to your fact free drivel. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. Under current rules, yes. But there are steps in place to change this at EU level and the only reason we have to charge 5% VAT is because the TORIES introduced a tax on domestic fuel in the first place. FACT!EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? This is simply NOT true. FACT! Try searching for EU State Aid Rules and find out for yourself rather than swallowing the nonsense spouted by those with other agendas (e.g. Johnson making a fool of himself in blaming the EU for introducing additional packaging for kippers, when the FACT was it was the UK government). You basically have no clue what you are talking about. You are obviously an expert in this field, so I'll bow to your superior ability.A proposal to change VAT rules at EU level means absolutely nothing. It's a proposal and one that has seemingly been in the offing for a few years. The point about sovereignty is that our national parliament decides when it wants to decide. Not the EU institutions. Whether it be VAT or any other law.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jul 23, 2019 21:41:20 GMT 1
Come on then Drew, I'm intrigued. What laws would you like to make that the EU won't let us make?
Bring back corporal punishment in schools perhaps?
The death penalty?
Public floggings?
Little armbands for people that aren't like you?
Sounds familiar.
Please can I have an armband that says I'm not like him. No need for that comrade, your little red book does the trick...
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Post by Mortgagehound on Jul 23, 2019 21:48:22 GMT 1
Welcome Boris
We are all behind you😂😂😂
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 22:07:17 GMT 1
It looks pretty clear to me, but there you go. You crack on. It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim. I haven't misread anything. You followed the Brexiters line of can't make laws, and claim lack sovereignty, when clearly we are a sovereign and independent nation. Like I said crack on.
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Post by jamo on Jul 23, 2019 22:10:09 GMT 1
Anyone else thinking Drew’s got a few issues ?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2019 22:18:06 GMT 1
We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. Under current rules, yes. But there are steps in place to change this at EU level and the only reason we have to charge 5% VAT is because the TORIES introduced a tax on domestic fuel in the first place. FACT!EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? This is simply NOT true. FACT! Try searching for EU State Aid Rules and find out for yourself rather than swallowing the nonsense spouted by those with other agendas (e.g. Johnson making a fool of himself in blaming the EU for introducing additional packaging for kippers, when the FACT was it was the UK government). You basically have no clue what you are talking about. You are obviously an expert in this field, so I'll bow to your superior ability.A proposal to change VAT rules at EU level means absolutely nothing. It's a proposal and one that has seemingly been in the offing for a few years. The point about sovereignty is that our national parliament decides when it wants to decide. Not the EU institutions. Whether it be VAT or any other law. So when our parliament blocks a no deal brexit, will that be sovereignty to!?
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Drew
Midland League Division One
Posts: 416
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Post by Drew on Jul 23, 2019 22:37:33 GMT 1
It's pretty clear you have totally misread. '...is laws that cannot'. Not 'is that laws cannot be'. Being in the EU impacts upon sovereignty because there are laws that cannot be made as a result of EU membership. Ie, any law that would contradict European Union law. Quite simple really. No sovereignty argument has been in any way 'demolished' as you claim. I haven't misread anything. You followed the Brexiters line of can't make laws, and claim lack sovereignty, when clearly we are a sovereign and independent nation. Like I said crack on. Clearly membership of the EU has an impact on sovereignty of member states. Are you actually disagreeing with this? I can't follow what you are saying. One minute you seem to accept this impact but suggest it's ok, the next you seem to suggest it's incorrect?
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Post by venceremos on Jul 23, 2019 23:07:23 GMT 1
Anyone else thinking Drew’s got a few issues ? “Thousands” of them ........ erm, Drew, that reminds me of some examples you were going to give or claimed to have given when nobody was looking .......
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Post by venceremos on Jul 23, 2019 23:22:56 GMT 1
We can set the rates on VAT. We CHOOSE to set it at the standard rate. We subsidise every single rail franchise, we could subsidise any other industry if we CHOSE to. We need as a country low skilled labour to work in our care homes, fields, hospitality and health services, why do you think that the government is already making plans to ease restrictions on immigration from commonwealth countries? If you think that the Tories will drop the rate of VAT or bail out British industry you are beyond deluded. Keep trying, but put a bit more effort in next time. We cannot eliminate VAT on domestic fuel bills. This is a fact. EU state aid rules prohibit state aid. Who would have thought? You basically have no clue what you are talking about. Complete waste of time responding to your fact free drivel. Now I know you claimed never to have been wrong on EU-related matters but when you say the EU prohibits state aid you’re either being disingenuous or you don’t know what a notified state aid is. Either way your sarcasm looks rather silly. There is a general prohibition, true, rightly intended to prevent distortion of competition and trade between members. However, there’s also a structure for member states to provide targeted aid provided certain criteria are met. The UK’s provision of enhanced tax relief for companies spending on R&D is a prime example of such a notified state aid.
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