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Post by claphamshrew on Jun 17, 2019 23:15:50 GMT 1
I'd have to brush up on my 'boory' accent. Not a black pudding fan either. More like Ben Affleck in The Accountant I reckon
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Post by northwestman on Jun 18, 2019 19:36:49 GMT 1
Article about Bury's finances by David Conn in the Guardian today. Well worth a read. www.theguardian.com/football/2019/jun/18/bury-inside-story-financial-ruin-winding-up-petition-loans-car-park?CMP=share_btn_tw"Gigg Lane, Bury’s home since 1885, has a mortgage on it for loans taken out during Day’s period of ownership, from a company called Capital Bridging Finance Solutions (“Capital”), based in Crosby. It has itself mortgaged the ground to a company registered in Malta, whose lenders in turn are eight companies registered in the British Virgin Islands. Dale says the loans on Gigg Lane now total £3.7m, accruing interest at almost £1,500 per day. Amid the financial debris lies extraordinary detail about how these loans were arranged. The Guardian understands that in the contracts, Capital and Bury agreed that 40% of the money being borrowed would never come to the club. Instead, Capital paid it to an unnamed third party, as an “introduction fee”. Bury still owe in full the initial £1.6m borrowed in October 2017, and must continue to pay interest on it, but £640,000 did not go to the club; Capital paid it out as an introduction fee. A subsequent loan in February 2018, for £722,800, is understood also to have involved a 40% fee paid to a third party – £289,120".
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2019 20:17:24 GMT 1
D day tomorrow or will it be yet another stay of execution?
You just have a feeling that there will be yet another twist tomorrow....
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Post by northwestman on Jun 18, 2019 20:30:54 GMT 1
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Post by ipswichshrews on Jun 19, 2019 9:07:25 GMT 1
Who'll replace Bury in league 1? One of the relegated teams? Ironic if it's Ryan Lowe and Plymouth.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 19, 2019 9:22:09 GMT 1
It'll be adjourned.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 19, 2019 11:54:44 GMT 1
Sure enough. It's been adjourned for 6 more weeks, leaving everyone in limbo.
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Post by ssshrew on Jun 19, 2019 11:57:14 GMT 1
How long will it be before someone takes the EFL to task for not using their financial regs rules? I am absolutely sick of it all.
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Post by martinshrew on Jun 19, 2019 11:59:21 GMT 1
Sure enough. It's been adjourned for 6 more weeks, leaving everyone in limbo. You wonder how. b******s to Bury, hope they have to start again in the regional northern leagues. Their fans lap up paying Championship wages time and time again.
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Post by scooter on Jun 19, 2019 12:05:17 GMT 1
Sure enough. It's been adjourned for 6 more weeks, leaving everyone in limbo. Another 6 weeks takes them to the start of the season. Will they have a manager or any players left ?
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Post by northwestman on Jun 19, 2019 12:15:22 GMT 1
Next question is what is the EFL going to do about this? Next Court Case for Bury is 31st July. The new season begins on 3rd August. Will Bury have any players by then? Are they going to risk another Bolton type of situation whereby Bury can't fulfil their fixtures.
At the moment the Club itself is closed, they have no Manager, and player after player is leaving.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2019 12:17:59 GMT 1
What an absolute shambles.
The EFL needs to act and act now.
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Post by tvor on Jun 19, 2019 12:23:10 GMT 1
Who'll replace Bury in league 1? One of the relegated teams? Ironic if it's Ryan Lowe and Plymouth. League 1 would operate with 23 teams in that scenario, with three relegation places. " during the period between the conclusion of the last Play-Off Match and the start of the following Season, its playing record shall not be expunged but the number of relegation places from the Division in which a Club would have played but for its cessation of membership, shall be reduced by the number of Clubs ceasing to be members and, during that Season, the relevant Division shall operate with a reduced number of Clubs." www.efl.com/-more/governance/efl-rules--regulations/section-3---the-league/
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Post by northwestman on Jun 19, 2019 16:01:47 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 20, 2019 8:05:54 GMT 1
Latest information is that Dale is trying to set up a CVA, whereby he retains control and there is no investigation into his conduct. This would not be the case if the Club was put into administration.
These asset strippers sure know how to operate!
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 20, 2019 16:49:13 GMT 1
Just looking at the fixtures and in the early weeks bury have got a few teams who you could see towards the bottom end of the table, but they could end up playing them with a half finished squad - which could handicap sides who had to play them after the window closes
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Post by northwestman on Jun 21, 2019 10:16:03 GMT 1
From a Bury fan who isn't too sure about whether covenants on the ground can be removed:-
"Presumably the ground will have to be sold off to pay something towards those in debt, hopefully the staff's unpaid wages (if any).
But what would happen to Gigg Lane? Is there a covenant which states it can only be used for football, and if so, who owns that covenant and can it be over-ridden by the courts if necessary?
And what happens to the fixures and fittings; will fans be able to buy bits of the ground and take it home, e.g their favourite row of seats, a chair from the Chairman's lounge etc? I could do with a square metre of turf!! But more realistically, could a group of fans buy the goals, nets and floodlight bulbs, kit, gym equipment etc and mothball them in case a reformed Bury emerges?
But back to the covenant, I assume if that's right they could still demolish the stands and build on the car-park and ruins, but simply leave the pitch as it is...Third Lanark style?"
And a great reply from a fellow supporter:-
"You will be lucky if any fittings and fixtures are still there given the past performance of the asset stripper".
I think he was referring to this:-
A couple of weeks ago the Old Market Tavern, a much loved real ale and live music pub in Altrincham was suddenly shut down.
Earlier this week it reopened so I went for a lunchtime pint, the place was basically stripped out but thankfully the bar and pumps were still in situ.
The barman explained that the previous owner had accepted an offer of £1 million for the building without telling staff or customers and had immediately closed the place leaving people who had booked and paid deposits for Christmas meals in the lurch. On top of this he had stripped out furniture and fittings, including the kitchen and even pulled the hand driers off the toilet walls. “He did it out of spite”, to quote the barman.
”Next we heard he’d bought Bury football club”. (posted by The Shropshire Tenor).
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Post by northwestman on Jun 21, 2019 12:05:55 GMT 1
We of course are very much aware as to how covenants can be got around!
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2019 22:05:38 GMT 1
Dale is trying to set up a CVA with the unsecured creditors. www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17723021.bury-fc-owner-makes-cva-proposal-to-clubs-creditors/Steven Wiseglass is acting on behalf of Dale. He has form! www.gov.uk/government/publications/insolvency-practitioner-sanctions-steven-wiseglass-3-july-2018www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/ACCA_Global/Members/news/2017/July/Wiseglass%20Reasons%20PUBLIC%20(July2016).pdfDale is claiming to be an unsecured creditor who is owed £3,600,000! 3,000,000 shares were allotted to Bury FC on December 7th 2018, the day that Dale bought the Club from the previous chairman Day after paying him £1. No way would Dale put £3 million of his own money into Bury, so I'm assuming that this has something to do with capitalisation of debt, whereby the consideration for shares issued by Bury FC takes the form of a discharge of an existing debt. But surely the existing debt would be to one of Day's Companies, so I'm baffled as to why Dale is claiming that money for himself. Unless Day sold the debt to Dale, who is now hoping to get a % as profit. Apparently, it is understood that Day has absconded from the country following a number of high profile insolvencies!
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Post by northwestman on Jun 23, 2019 22:25:38 GMT 1
Ah! Someone on the Bury Board agrees with me.
"3 million new shares were issued on the same day Steve Dale became a director.
Ordinarily there would have been a £3 million injection of cash into the the club in return for these shares.
Clearly this didn’t happen otherwise we wouldn’t be where we are now.
Only the club accounts could prove this out.
The remaining £600k could be his Directors fee/remuneration.
Pretty sure that share issue was capitalisation of monies owed to Day/Mederco."
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Post by venceremos on Jun 24, 2019 0:11:48 GMT 1
Dale is trying to set up a CVA with the unsecured creditors. www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17723021.bury-fc-owner-makes-cva-proposal-to-clubs-creditors/Steven Wiseglass is acting on behalf of Dale. He has form! www.gov.uk/government/publications/insolvency-practitioner-sanctions-steven-wiseglass-3-july-2018www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/ACCA_Global/Members/news/2017/July/Wiseglass%20Reasons%20PUBLIC%20(July2016).pdfDale is claiming to be an unsecured creditor who is owed £3,600,000! 3,000,000 shares were allotted to Bury FC on December 7th 2018, the day that Dale bought the Club from the previous chairman Day after paying him £1. No way would Dale put £3 million of his own money into Bury, so I'm assuming that this has something to do with capitalisation of debt, whereby the consideration for shares issued by Bury FC takes the form of a discharge of an existing debt. But surely the existing debt would be to one of Day's Companies, so I'm baffled as to why Dale is claiming that money for himself. Unless Day sold the debt to Dale, who is now hoping to get a % as profit. Apparently, it is understood that Day has absconded from the country following a number of high profile insolvencies! Steven Wiseglass? I find the Day/Dale similarity confusing enough but now there’s someone called Wiseglass? Almost as if this whole thing is being scripted. Hard to believe an unsecured creditor of Bury would get much of their debt repaid. HMRC are now preferential creditors again and there could well be other, secured debt. Great way for them to go into the season though, assuming they can even make it to the start line.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 25, 2019 14:53:28 GMT 1
Dale is trying to set up a CVA with the unsecured creditors. www.burytimes.co.uk/sport/17723021.bury-fc-owner-makes-cva-proposal-to-clubs-creditors/Steven Wiseglass is acting on behalf of Dale. He has form! www.gov.uk/government/publications/insolvency-practitioner-sanctions-steven-wiseglass-3-july-2018www.accaglobal.com/content/dam/ACCA_Global/Members/news/2017/July/Wiseglass%20Reasons%20PUBLIC%20(July2016).pdfDale is claiming to be an unsecured creditor who is owed £3,600,000! 3,000,000 shares were allotted to Bury FC on December 7th 2018, the day that Dale bought the Club from the previous chairman Day after paying him £1. No way would Dale put £3 million of his own money into Bury, so I'm assuming that this has something to do with capitalisation of debt, whereby the consideration for shares issued by Bury FC takes the form of a discharge of an existing debt. But surely the existing debt would be to one of Day's Companies, so I'm baffled as to why Dale is claiming that money for himself. Unless Day sold the debt to Dale, who is now hoping to get a % as profit. Apparently, it is understood that Day has absconded from the country following a number of high profile insolvencies! Surely there's no way the other creditors, particularly the HMRC will let that stand without a big fight. They are already upset with the whole football creditors rule
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Post by northwestman on Jun 25, 2019 20:11:08 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 26, 2019 9:58:05 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on Jun 27, 2019 18:16:03 GMT 1
When he left the club Day said in David Conn's Guardian article
“I feel I have left the club in a stronger position than it was in when I arrived,” he said, explaining that he was leaving the club “with a heavy heart”, to spend more time with his family."
In the same article
“Mr Dale decided to return to business in a more philanthropic way, helping younger people and others who have lost hope,” a spokesperson said. “Having heard about Bury he felt he could bring business acumen to the club … and resolve the problems the club has been facing.”
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Post by tvor on Jun 28, 2019 13:52:17 GMT 1
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Post by theriverside on Jun 28, 2019 15:43:52 GMT 1
With the vary latest news being that he has allegedly been up to the training complex at Carrington, seen what the state of play is and walked away...................................
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Post by northwestman on Jun 29, 2019 9:22:31 GMT 1
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Post by theriverside on Jun 29, 2019 13:09:28 GMT 1
Another 4 players rumoured to have left.............with no manager or squad the start of pre-season training on Monday could be interesting there.
Take your boots you WILL get a game.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Jun 29, 2019 17:17:21 GMT 1
Another 4 players rumoured to have left.............with no manager or squad the start of pre-season training on Monday could be interesting there.
Take your boots you WILL get a game.
Who is left? I've said before, but it's going to be a massive advantage for those sides playing them at the start of the season, if they survive
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