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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 16, 2019 19:37:19 GMT 1
It's pretty clear that all staff within the club have outed the guy as a complete crook. Talk on their MB of staff having season ticket sale funds put into a separate account, most seem to be buying them with credit cards as insurance anyway. £250 a ticket......no wonder they are in debt. Only 800 Season Tickets sold as yet apparently. Hmmm, wonder why the fans are reluctant to hand over their money
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Post by gainsparkshrew on May 16, 2019 20:14:52 GMT 1
Quick question for Northwestman,
You have been following developments closer than anyone else on here ( I did for a while but whilst I'm semi-retired I seem to be working harder than I ever did when I was a full time employee !)
I've read on Beardymans Big Bury Board that quite a few Bury fans now see Stuart Day (SD1) as a bit of a fantasist, a dreamer with a plan to get Bury up to the Championship by assembling an excellent squad for season 2017-18. The plan then being that they would then be swimming in the money that being in The Championship can bring.On paper their squad was fantastic but there was major friction in the dressing room, plus Lee Clark as manager, resulting in the direct opposite to SD1's ambition...relegation.
With SD1 knowing that his Mederco business empire was about to collapse did he sell to Steve Daly(SD2) for a £1 with the belief that this could save Bury? In other words, at that time, were Bury F.C part of the Mederco empire and if Mederco went down it would take Bury with it?
I recall that this was how Telford United collapsed as they were part of Andy Shaws group of companies and when one went they all went
Was that the case?
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Post by northwestman on May 17, 2019 10:33:00 GMT 1
Quick question for Northwestman, You have been following developments closer than anyone else on here ( I did for a while but whilst I'm semi-retired I seem to be working harder than I ever did when I was a full time employee !) I've read on Beardymans Big Bury Board that quite a few Bury fans now see Stuart Day (SD1) as a bit of a fantasist, a dreamer with a plan to get Bury up to the Championship by assembling an excellent squad for season 2017-18. The plan then being that they would then be swimming in the money that being in The Championship can bring.On paper their squad was fantastic but there was major friction in the dressing room, plus Lee Clark as manager, resulting in the direct opposite to SD1's ambition...relegation. With SD1 knowing that his Mederco business empire was about to collapse did he sell to Steve Daly(SD2) for a £1 with the belief that this could save Bury? In other words, at that time, were Bury F.C part of the Mederco empire and if Mederco went down it would take Bury with it? I recall that this was how Telford United collapsed as they were part of Andy Shaws group of companies and when one went they all went Was that the case? That's a very good question. Undoubtedly, a considerable % of the debts run up by Bury are owed to SD1's Mederco Companies, which have now collapsed. So presumably the administrators appointed to act on behalf of the creditors will be looking at the loans made to Bury by SD1 via his Companies. It is indeed a mystery as to how SD2 ever became involved with the Club. A businessman like SD2 who has a past record of asset stripping Companies and then closing them down, leaving unpaid creditors being owed considerable sums of money, surely wouldn't take Bury FC on without completing due diligence. And yet he's on record as saying that he didn't realise how bad things were. I spent quite some time trying to establish a connection between SD1 and SD2, and this is what I posted on 28th December last year:- "I think that I may have found the link - Glenn Thomas, the present Bury Vice Chairman. Thomas has already worked with Day at Bury FC and is a mutual acquaintance of both Dale and the other Director Matt McCarthy, which allegedly is how Dale became interested in Bury. Dale has stated on a Club video that it was Thomas who persuaded him to take over at the Club. Thomas is at present a Director of 11 Companies, 7 of which have outstanding charges on them. Day was appointed a Director of Rainbow Homes Ltd on 5th March 2018, having already resigned from the Company on 1st February 2016, to be replaced by Thomas. Rainbow Homes is involved in the construction of domestic buildings. Day and Thomas are both currently Directors of Rainbow Homes, and have been Directors of the same Companies in the past too". Despite all SD1's Mederco Companies having folded, Rainbow Homes Ltd is still active according to Companies House. I'm not sure as to why SD1 sold the Club to SD2 for £1. I somehow don't see SD1 as a philanthropist, any more than I believe SD2's statement about wanting to re-establish the Club in the Community. It's got something to do with capitalisation of debts I suspect. Within a week of taking over from SD1, SD2 set up an allotment of £3,000,000 of shares to Bury FC which meant that there are now £12,984,957 £1 shares in the Club. There is no way that SD2 has put £3 million of his own money into Bury FC. He doesn't even pay the bills, the players or his staff! Since SD1 was appointed on 25th July 2013, the increases in the number of shares allotted to the Club have been as follows:- Sept 2014 - £3,233,609 March 2015 -£3,279,627 Aug 2016 - £4,790,069 Jan 2017 - £7,297,119 June 2017 - £8,297,394 July 2018 - £9,984, 957 SD2 was appointed on 14th Dec 2018. He set up an allotment of £3 million shares on 20th December, so the current figure is £12,984,957. As far as my understanding is concerned, debt capitalisation is the process whereby the consideration for shares issued by a Company takes the form of a discharge of an existing debt. So have the debts owed to SD1's Companies been capitalised by SD1 and SD2 at Bury FC? I'm no accountant, but there must be some reason why they have done this.
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Post by northwestman on May 17, 2019 11:02:07 GMT 1
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Post by ssshrew on May 17, 2019 11:12:16 GMT 1
Interesting that Preston managed to donate £2000 of food vouchers to help but as far as we know b...r all from the rich bunches just down the road.
One thing is correct though - the EFL are a waste of space.
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Post by northwestman on May 17, 2019 11:25:42 GMT 1
Interesting that Preston managed to donate £2000 of food vouchers to help but as far as we know b...r all from the rich bunches just down the road. One thing is correct though - the EFL are a waste of space. The Chairman of Bolton, Ken Anderson's story is an interesting one. In September 2005 he was disqualified from being a company director for eight years after his firm Professional Sports International Ltd and seven of his other companies went bust. That disqualification order had concluded by the time Anderson arrived at Bolton, which explains the green light from the EFL. That is despite the Official Insolvency Services notice which stated he had failed to ensure his companies paid VAT, then failed to co-operate with liquidators. The order added that at PSI "Mr Anderson diverted, sought to divert PSI funds by depositing them into a personal bank account in his own name and invoicing in the name of another connected company." Anderson is based in Monaco, as is Mark Guterman!
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Post by northwestman on May 20, 2019 9:42:36 GMT 1
Nice to have some acknowledgement from the Bury Fans Forum.
"As always with hindsight, there were some warning signs. A popular Shrewsbury Town forum had a thread on Dale as soon as he took over, the contents of which make for grim reading. It should be noted that elements of Salop’s supporters have been fiercely critical of how Bury have operated financially for years now, and not without good reason".
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Post by theriverside on May 21, 2019 9:21:14 GMT 1
Stadium and ticket office closed again until next week..............their early bird tickets end on Friday.
It's almost as if the club staff are encouraging people to buy their tickets (think they're mad myself) online and using their credit cards rather than paying cash at the ticket office, more chance of a refund if they do go pop then.
As a side note can you imagine the meltdown on here if our ticket office was shut in the run up to such a deadline?!!!
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Post by ssshrew on May 21, 2019 9:24:29 GMT 1
But I guess with their problems the fans don’t expect much at the moment.
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 9:52:17 GMT 1
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Post by ssshrew on May 22, 2019 10:14:25 GMT 1
That’s really good for them but honestly it shouldn’t be necessary if the EFL took more notice of who takes over clubs and less notice of the bigger clubs and pandering to the money.
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Post by scooter on May 22, 2019 20:28:45 GMT 1
players have had enough of the Chairman
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Post by Deleted on May 22, 2019 20:55:08 GMT 1
players have had enough of the Chairman I’ve enjoyed taking the p**s out of Bury f c in the past but this really is the pits . Surely the players and staff deserve better , it is an absolute disgrace how this has been allowed up develop . Bury FC players and staff have my absolute support . The supporters too deserve better . I can only imagine how I would feel if it were my club. My best wishes to them all , I truly hope that there is a speedy resolution to this awful mess.
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Post by northwestman on May 22, 2019 22:49:39 GMT 1
Looks like some of the Bury fans are considering a similar demonstration outside Mr Dale's Prestbury residence as was made by Wrexham fans at Alex Hamilton's and Colin Poole's.
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Post by theriverside on May 23, 2019 19:54:32 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 23, 2019 20:18:09 GMT 1
Comment from the Bury Fans Forum.
"The man is clearly mental. It’s clear he hasn’t communicated with the staff, players or Ryan Lowe as he is addressing them in a public statement. If you really sit by a computer and phone between 5am and 8pm daily to save our club, why not ring or email your staff?
Other points I have taken from this statement - he comes across as passive aggressive and anyone who sympathized with him before this statement, certainly won’t do now.
If he sits by a computer for 15 hours a day, how can he claim to not take note of any social media comments etc? It’s hard to avoid nowadays.
This man bought the club BECAUSE he had beaten leukemia, but all of a sudden he is bed bound with it? Has this man ever even been ill? (Physically that is, because clearly he is mentally ill).
He has vowed to sell the club but has declined an offer? Why did he decline it? It clearly wasn’t in the interest of Bury FC".
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Post by Chief Inspector Swan on May 23, 2019 20:21:33 GMT 1
Statement seems quite clear to me. He’s accusing the likes of the redoubtable northwestman of being an ‘internet troll’ and operating with an ‘agenda’.
Whether that it true isn’t my business, I’d err on the side of ‘no’ personally, but the gloves are clearly off.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on May 23, 2019 20:42:22 GMT 1
That is one of the most crackpot statements I have seen ANY football club publish..... Truly staggering. Must spell the end of the players and Lowe... why would you stay when hes accused you of lieing...
And all the staff... Christ!
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Post by northwestman on May 23, 2019 20:58:09 GMT 1
"As for not caring why do you think I am working 5am to 8pm and later every day".
Must have been difficult to find the time to put in a failed bid for Widnes Vikings then.
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Post by Deleted on May 23, 2019 22:00:16 GMT 1
This latest statement is just going to fan the flames even more....
What a mess.
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on May 23, 2019 22:56:27 GMT 1
Isn’t it time that someone closed this club down so they can start all over again several divisions down? Why the hell is no one doing this, it’s just a sick joke now.
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Post by northwestman on May 24, 2019 8:57:31 GMT 1
2 articles from The Times:-
"Members of Bury’s League Two promotion-winning squad may soon be forced to sell their homes after 12 weeks without receiving their salaries, the winger Nicky Adams says.
The squad released a joint statement on Wednesday revealing their dismay at their treatment from the club’s owner, Steve Dale, who has so far refused to sanction a sale of the financially stricken club.
“We achieved everything we set out on the pitch this season,” Adams says, “but off the pitch it’s been a nightmare. We had a meeting with the owner in March. He said he’d run into financial problems he hadn’t foreseen. He should have done his due diligence; surely you have solicitors to do all that sort of thing.
“We just feel we’ve been lied to. We’ve been paid late all season — every month but one, January. Half the team would get paid three or four days late, then the other half would get paid a few days later. Some of the lads are contemplating putting their houses up for sale. It’s a sad state of affairs. In League One and Two there are no millionaires. You can’t survive for long.”
Dale, a Cheshire-based businessman, bought Bury in December and arrived speaking in philanthropic tones, swiftly setting up a new company, Bury FC Heritage, he said, to safeguard Gigg Lane. There were grand plans to extend the lease of and develop Bury’s Carrington training complex, which was vacated by Manchester City upon their move to the Etihad campus in 2014.
Yet three months later Dale revealed that the club’s debts were “significantly worse” than he had anticipated and a series of spiky statements were released on the club website, where he spoke of handing the club over to a “younger custodian”.
Adams says that without a swift resolution, he and his team-mates will be left with no option but to look for new clubs. EFL rules state that, after 14 days unpaid or a “serious or persistent breach of the terms and conditions” of a player’s contract, the player can offer 14 days written notice of his intention to terminate.
“The PFA and Simon Barker have been great and they stepped in to help us with our March wages,” Adams, 32, says. “But people live to their means. That’s the same in any walk of life, and football, especially at our level, is no different. It has got to the point where the players are going to have to explore other avenues, see if other clubs want us. If you work at Asda and they’re not paying you, but Tesco will, you’re going to go aren’t you?”
Bury face a HMRC winding-up petition in June and this week fans raised shopping vouchers for non-playing staff at Gigg Lane, who received their March salaries only last week, and 50 per cent of their April salaries on Monday.
Bury’s financial woes, it should be noted, are largely a legacy of the previous owner, Stewart Day, but nevertheless Dale’s motivation for taking the reins is unclear. “We’ve been told by various sources that he bought the club for £1 and took the debt on,” Adams says. “Whether or not he thought he could sort it out and he can’t, I don’t know. But it’s time to pass it on to someone who can. Apparently there have been offers for the club made but they’ve been turned down. We don’t know why.
“If you’re not selling the club to someone who wants to step in and take the club forward, and pay us, then why are you not paying us? He openly said in a meeting — the PFA were there — that he didn’t agree with having to put in his own money. I’ve played for a few clubs, and worked for a few chairmen, and they’ve always paid their players.”
It is a sad addendum to a season in which Bury, under the management of former striker Ryan Lowe, who has been linked with the vacant position at Plymouth Argyle, regularly lit up League Two with their free-scoring and often swashbuckling attacking football. “We entertained everyone,” Bolton-born Adams, who is in his third spell at Gigg Lane, says. “It’s sad, I’ve got a real affinity with the club. I’m a local boy. The gaffer and I have got a lot of history with the club. So it’s going to be extremely sad if we have to leave. And it’s the same for all of us. We had such a good group — not just good footballers, good lads. We were very close. It’s just sad.”
George Robertson - former football league player
"How would you cope without being paid for 12 weeks? What about if the situation got so bad that a year or more of your salary was treated as a movable feast? Not without considerable hardship, I would wager. And it is no different for footballers a few rungs down the ladder, who are far removed from the preconception of overpaid, pampered millionaires.
Not long after I joined Rotherham United the club ran into financial troubles in 2005-06. When our wages failed to materialise, afternoons after training were spent discussing what, if anything, we should do. “Welcome to the real world,” I thought. It shouldn’t be like this, should it? The sheer number of clubs who are failing to pay their players on time is a damning indictment on the game — and an issue that its governing bodies seem incapable of influencing.
At Rotherham, the Professional Footballers’ Association made numerous visits to Millmoor to mediate between club and players. Ultimately, the union stepped in to cover our wages. But, as has happened at Bury, they asked us to defer a percentage until a takeover had been completed.
In League Two, players’ earnings vary from about £700 per week at the smaller clubs to £1,500 or more at the upper end, which is roughly what Bury’s first-team players will earn.
Players with mouths to feed may be forced to run up debts on credit cards, as several players I know have done.
Nicky Adams, the Bury winger with whom I enjoyed many duels, says he has had to ask to borrow money from his father to get through the summer. He has three children and his wife, Megan, is pregnant with a fourth. If an owner of a club such as Bury’s Steve Dale can’t afford to pay his staff after three months, why on earth did he buy the club? And, furthermore, how has he been allowed to?"
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Post by zenfootball2 on May 24, 2019 9:03:28 GMT 1
2 articles from The Times:- "Members of Bury’s League Two promotion-winning squad may soon be forced to sell their homes after 12 weeks without receiving their salaries, the winger Nicky Adams says. The squad released a joint statement on Wednesday revealing their dismay at their treatment from the club’s owner, Steve Dale, who has so far refused to sanction a sale of the financially stricken club. “We achieved everything we set out on the pitch this season,” Adams says, “but off the pitch it’s been a nightmare. We had a meeting with the owner in March. He said he’d run into financial problems he hadn’t foreseen. He should have done his due diligence; surely you have solicitors to do all that sort of thing. “We just feel we’ve been lied to. We’ve been paid late all season — every month but one, January. Half the team would get paid three or four days late, then the other half would get paid a few days later. Some of the lads are contemplating putting their houses up for sale. It’s a sad state of affairs. In League One and Two there are no millionaires. You can’t survive for long.” Dale, a Cheshire-based businessman, bought Bury in December and arrived speaking in philanthropic tones, swiftly setting up a new company, Bury FC Heritage, he said, to safeguard Gigg Lane. There were grand plans to extend the lease of and develop Bury’s Carrington training complex, which was vacated by Manchester City upon their move to the Etihad campus in 2014. Yet three months later Dale revealed that the club’s debts were “significantly worse” than he had anticipated and a series of spiky statements were released on the club website, where he spoke of handing the club over to a “younger custodian”. Adams says that without a swift resolution, he and his team-mates will be left with no option but to look for new clubs. EFL rules state that, after 14 days unpaid or a “serious or persistent breach of the terms and conditions” of a player’s contract, the player can offer 14 days written notice of his intention to terminate. “The PFA and Simon Barker have been great and they stepped in to help us with our March wages,” Adams, 32, says. “But people live to their means. That’s the same in any walk of life, and football, especially at our level, is no different. It has got to the point where the players are going to have to explore other avenues, see if other clubs want us. If you work at Asda and they’re not paying you, but Tesco will, you’re going to go aren’t you?” Bury face a HMRC winding-up petition in June and this week fans raised shopping vouchers for non-playing staff at Gigg Lane, who received their March salaries only last week, and 50 per cent of their April salaries on Monday. Bury’s financial woes, it should be noted, are largely a legacy of the previous owner, Stewart Day, but nevertheless Dale’s motivation for taking the reins is unclear. “We’ve been told by various sources that he bought the club for £1 and took the debt on,” Adams says. “Whether or not he thought he could sort it out and he can’t, I don’t know. But it’s time to pass it on to someone who can. Apparently there have been offers for the club made but they’ve been turned down. We don’t know why. “If you’re not selling the club to someone who wants to step in and take the club forward, and pay us, then why are you not paying us? He openly said in a meeting — the PFA were there — that he didn’t agree with having to put in his own money. I’ve played for a few clubs, and worked for a few chairmen, and they’ve always paid their players.” It is a sad addendum to a season in which Bury, under the management of former striker Ryan Lowe, who has been linked with the vacant position at Plymouth Argyle, regularly lit up League Two with their free-scoring and often swashbuckling attacking football. “We entertained everyone,” Bolton-born Adams, who is in his third spell at Gigg Lane, says. “It’s sad, I’ve got a real affinity with the club. I’m a local boy. The gaffer and I have got a lot of history with the club. So it’s going to be extremely sad if we have to leave. And it’s the same for all of us. We had such a good group — not just good footballers, good lads. We were very close. It’s just sad.” George Robertson - former football league player "How would you cope without being paid for 12 weeks? What about if the situation got so bad that a year or more of your salary was treated as a movable feast? Not without considerable hardship, I would wager. And it is no different for footballers a few rungs down the ladder, who are far removed from the preconception of overpaid, pampered millionaires. Not long after I joined Rotherham United the club ran into financial troubles in 2005-06. When our wages failed to materialise, afternoons after training were spent discussing what, if anything, we should do. “Welcome to the real world,” I thought. It shouldn’t be like this, should it? The sheer number of clubs who are failing to pay their players on time is a damning indictment on the game — and an issue that its governing bodies seem incapable of influencing. At Rotherham, the Professional Footballers’ Association made numerous visits to Millmoor to mediate between club and players. Ultimately, the union stepped in to cover our wages. But, as has happened at Bury, they asked us to defer a percentage until a takeover had been completed. In League Two, players’ earnings vary from about £700 per week at the smaller clubs to £1,500 or more at the upper end, which is roughly what Bury’s first-team players will earn. Players with mouths to feed may be forced to run up debts on credit cards, as several players I know have done. Nicky Adams, the Bury winger with whom I enjoyed many duels, says he has had to ask to borrow money from his father to get through the summer. He has three children and his wife, Megan, is pregnant with a fourth. If an owner of a club such as Bury’s Steve Dale can’t afford to pay his staff after three months, why on earth did he buy the club? And, furthermore, how has he been allowed to?" thanks for that a real thought provocking post
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Post by northwestman on May 24, 2019 12:59:31 GMT 1
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Post by tdk on May 24, 2019 15:54:05 GMT 1
"And, furthermore, how has he been allowed to?"
That is the key question. How many more times is this going to happen before EFL get real?
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Post by northwestman on May 24, 2019 16:34:33 GMT 1
"And, furthermore, how has he been allowed to?" That is the key question. How many more times is this going to happen before EFL get real? Glenn Thomas, the present Bury Vice Chairman, has already worked with Day at Bury FC and is a mutual acquaintance of both Dale and the other Director Matt McCarthy, which allegedly is how Dale became interested in Bury. Dale has stated on a Club video that it was Thomas who persuaded him to take over at the Club. Dale has no link with the Bury area, is ostensibly in ill health, isn't a football fan, and despite being an experienced businessman (albeit in asset stripping Companies) didn't exercise sufficient due diligence (according to his version of events) when taking over Bury for £1. Yet he has turned up from absolutely nowhere and coincidentally at the precise time when all Day's Mederco Companies were about to go into administration. www.burytimes.co.uk/news/17560478.former-bury-fc-chairman-stewart-days-empire-goes-under-owing-27million/
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Post by northwestman on May 25, 2019 10:38:39 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 27, 2019 16:16:32 GMT 1
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Post by theriverside on May 28, 2019 10:14:10 GMT 1
A better summary than David Conn's in the Guardian..........I thought he went very easy on the owner and previous incumbent.
I see the website announcement is that the club and stadium will be closed until further notice, but the ticket office still open! Anyone investing in a season ticket wants to give their head a shake!
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Post by northwestman on May 28, 2019 10:23:31 GMT 1
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