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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 3, 2019 12:59:07 GMT 1
So in Askey's 'awful signings' list we have:- Holloway Gillead Waterfall Grant Docherty Emmanuel Norburn Laurent Ferji All Ok or better I would add Haynes to that list Loft Kennedy Arnold possible flops Not bad when consider also over £2 million net transfer fee income (and all made in a rushed 6 or so weeks) Whatever his failings as a manager I don't think recruitment was the problem considering the time period Askey has signed some good players. i would not personally put Kennedy in the flops in every game i have seen him play in reserves etc whilst he like the others has no pace he is neat and tidy ,has a good football brain makes few errors and keeps things simple.
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Post by mattmw on Jan 3, 2019 13:07:23 GMT 1
I still find the Askey appointment and subsequent transfer dealings a very odd part of Town's recent history.
He was perhaps dealt a poor hand in the late sale of Toto and Nolan, and had they gone earlier I hope he probably wouldn't have signed Loft and Kennedy - who at best were only going to be back up for the first team.
The rest of the signings seemed to lack a clear strategy - players like Waterfall, Norburn and Amadi-Holloway suggested a more direct style of play; but then players like Docherty, Okenbirhie and Grant suggested a more pressing and passing style of play. Other signings seem ok but particularly in midfield we seem over loaded on very similar style of players. To me it all suggested a lack of clarity on how we planned to play and what players we needed for that system.
Early days yet but I get the sense that Ricketts is looking to build a style of play into the club and sees Ramsey as a big part of that with the youth and reserve sides, and a more structured recruitment programme.
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Post by davycrockett on Jan 3, 2019 13:18:11 GMT 1
The question is how much input the manager has on signings? Didn’t we employ someone who was responsible for drawing up lists the manager could then let the club know who he’d be interested in then leave it to BC and RW to do the deals? Do we have a scouting network still?
Did Askey really have enough knowledge of the Scottish Premiership and approach Glasgow or was Docherty identified by someone else?
Everyone seems to think our managers have a free hand with no input from the club which I doubt is true, also Ricketts knew the situation when he was employed and I’m sure he must have said he could work with the existing players and get more out of them rather than don’t judge me till I bring in my own players.
We can’t afford to keep paying off managers so need to stick with Ricketts but somethings got to change soon we can’t keep changing the team and blaming poor recruitment
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 3, 2019 14:19:23 GMT 1
This is exactly what I’m getting at. Thank you. I don’t think that is what you were getting at? You’ve essentially said that after 6 games you don’t think Ricketts is the right guy after complaining that people didn’t give Askey enough time...? It didn’t work at the weekend but he made a change at half time and that change made us look better. Far too often Askey kept the same shape in games and left subs too late. Granted, Askey had to rebuild a team but he signed the players with a vision and they failed to fit into his system so he changed it to 3 at the back, then changed it back again then changed to a diamond. Ricketts is working with what he’s got and doing alright- I like you’ve been bold enough to suggest you don’t think he’s going to do it for us but you can’t then turn around and say ‘get behind him and the team’. It’s the hypocrisy of fans I was trying to get at greeny. I’m going to support Ricketts while he’s here, just as I did askey. Point being I feel askey should have also had the same backing from the supporters.
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Post by greeny on Jan 3, 2019 15:16:02 GMT 1
I don’t think that is what you were getting at? You’ve essentially said that after 6 games you don’t think Ricketts is the right guy after complaining that people didn’t give Askey enough time...? It didn’t work at the weekend but he made a change at half time and that change made us look better. Far too often Askey kept the same shape in games and left subs too late. Granted, Askey had to rebuild a team but he signed the players with a vision and they failed to fit into his system so he changed it to 3 at the back, then changed it back again then changed to a diamond. Ricketts is working with what he’s got and doing alright- I like you’ve been bold enough to suggest you don’t think he’s going to do it for us but you can’t then turn around and say ‘get behind him and the team’. It’s the hypocrisy of fans I was trying to get at greeny. I’m going to support Ricketts while he’s here, just as I did askey. Point being I feel askey should have also had the same backing from the supporters. I get that but it’s your hypocrisy that I’m getting at...you think fans should have been fairer with Askey but at the same time you said you’ve already written Ricketts off after 6 games...? That’s just as bad, if not worse, than the people you’re annoyed about.
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Post by tvor on Jan 3, 2019 15:21:11 GMT 1
So in Askey's 'awful signings' list we have:- Holloway Gillead Waterfall Grant Docherty Emmanuel Norburn Laurent Ferji All Ok or better I would add Haynes to that list Loft Kennedy Arnold possible flops Not bad when consider also over £2 million net transfer fee income (and all made in a rushed 6 or so weeks) Whatever his failings as a manager I don't think recruitment was the problem considering the time period Askey has signed some good players. i would not personally put Kennedy in the flops in every game i have seen him play in reserves etc whilst he like the others has no pace he is neat and tidy ,has a good football brain makes few errors and keeps things simple. Nearly every Town manager in recent times has made a Kennedy type signing. It was clearly a punt based on perceived potential.
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Post by northwestman on Jan 3, 2019 17:13:45 GMT 1
The question is how much input the manager has on signings? Didn’t we employ someone who was responsible for drawing up lists the manager could then let the club know who he’d be interested in then leave it to BC and RW to do the deals? Do we have a scouting network still? Did Askey really have enough knowledge of the Scottish Premiership and approach Glasgow or was Docherty identified by someone else? Everyone seems to think our managers have a free hand with no input from the club which I doubt is true, also Ricketts knew the situation when he was employed and I’m sure he must have said he could work with the existing players and get more out of them rather than don’t judge me till I bring in my own players. We can’t afford to keep paying off managers so need to stick with Ricketts but somethings got to change soon we can’t keep changing the team and blaming poor recruitment That sounds like Adam Henshall might be looking at a P45 in due course. I believe a fair % of the players Askey was 'responsible' for signing had in fact already been identified by Henshall, and that some had already been put forward to PH.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 3, 2019 17:21:34 GMT 1
Can't really recall Town fans making up their mind on a manager so soon to be honest, although I have been over this way for a while so may have missed something. I mean if anything haven't we held onto managers far too long than was needed and for the most part that was because there was little or no pressure from the supporters to do so? I don't think it is something that comes about all too often. We're a pretty placid support base. Which for me says more about Askey than it does about our fan base. They might well have been chanting "you don't know what you're doing" early doors but there was very little from there on in that proved otherwise...
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Post by SamHarvey on Jan 4, 2019 15:12:44 GMT 1
It’s the hypocrisy of fans I was trying to get at greeny. I’m going to support Ricketts while he’s here, just as I did askey. Point being I feel askey should have also had the same backing from the supporters. I get that but it’s your hypocrisy that I’m getting at...you think fans should have been fairer with Askey but at the same time you said you’ve already written Ricketts off after 6 games...? That’s just as bad, if not worse, than the people you’re annoyed about. Sorry, we’re on different wave lengths here. I’m happy to get behind the current regime, I dont think it’ll work out, that’s my opinion and I’d be more than happy to be proved wrong, but while Ricketts is in charge I’ll support him. I wish fans had done the same with askey. Tha is my point. The thread title says it all really.
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Post by tvor on Jan 12, 2019 19:25:31 GMT 1
Well today was worse than anything offered up in any of the games during Askey's time in charge in my opinion. We were very fortunate not to get beat 5 or 6.
That performance was both appalling and worrying in equal measure.
Ricketts inherited a team having won 5 in 6 and has been taking them gradually backwards ever since culminating in that today. If we do get dragged into the bottom four is he, with so little managerial experience, a man that can get us out of it.
Alarm bells are, or should be, now ringing loudly.
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Post by Mortgagehound on Jan 12, 2019 23:30:04 GMT 1
Well today was worse than anything offered up in any of the games during Askey's time in charge in my opinion. We were very fortunate not to get beat 5 or 6. That performance was both appalling and worrying in equal measure. Ricketts inherited a team having won 5 in 6 and has been taking them gradually backwards ever since culminating in that today. If we do get dragged into the bottom four is he, with so little managerial experience, a man that can get us out of it. Alarm bells are, or should be, now ringing loudly. Good post
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Post by callum on Jan 13, 2019 2:08:31 GMT 1
Well today was worse than anything offered up in any of the games during Askey's time in charge in my opinion. We were very fortunate not to get beat 5 or 6. That performance was both appalling and worrying in equal measure. Ricketts inherited a team having won 5 in 6 and has been taking them gradually backwards ever since culminating in that today. If we do get dragged into the bottom four is he, with so little managerial experience, a man that can get us out of it. Alarm bells are, or should be, now ringing loudly. I agree, I 'm struggling to think why the heck we chose him as manager. The way it's going will he see the season out?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 8:22:28 GMT 1
To be fair to Paul Hurst he turned around a failing, overpaid and under performing squad in no time at all. Askey and Ricketts didn't or don't look like they are able to (at least yet in the case of Ricketts).
I do find it mystifying that he signs his unfit chum Dave Edwards, which seems to be the good luck charm signing in which to galvanize the season.
Sign a Keeper, Defender (with pace), some wingers and a centre forward please Ricketts, don't go looking to get your best mates back on the payroll.
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Post by shrewder on Jan 13, 2019 8:32:08 GMT 1
How can a team perform so well against Stoke and be so dire in the next match. Surely that says are we over reacting after one very poor performance. Not saying we don't have problems but these players have shown they can put in a decent shift. Just needs Ricketts to shake them up.
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Post by RBA on Jan 13, 2019 9:24:00 GMT 1
SR inherited Askeys team you can't get away from that fact- therefore it is far too early to judge SR either way hopefully we can get enough quality in this window to survive (by no means certain) and SR gets the summer to rebuild we can then judge SR properly
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Post by Mortgagehound on Jan 13, 2019 11:58:28 GMT 1
Our manager is not getting the best out of this team
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Post by vixenshrew on Jan 13, 2019 12:29:01 GMT 1
As soon as Askey left and pre Ricketts the team were improving. Now we look like a team who has lost confidence (again), so something within management isn't working as it should and the management team need to address it quickly. The short term aim now is surely to survive and stay in L1 with the long term strategy to aim for promotion and bring in some talented players at achieve it.
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Post by kuffdam72 on Jan 13, 2019 12:30:54 GMT 1
Our manager is not getting the best out of this team He's being slipped brown envelopes from Wellington and Wrexham.....
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 13, 2019 12:38:55 GMT 1
Well today was worse than anything offered up in any of the games during Askey's time in charge in my opinion. We were very fortunate not to get beat 5 or 6. That performance was both appalling and worrying in equal measure. Ricketts inherited a team having won 5 in 6 and has been taking them gradually backwards ever since culminating in that today. If we do get dragged into the bottom four is he, with so little managerial experience, a man that can get us out of it. Alarm bells are, or should be, now ringing loudly. I agree, I 'm struggling to think why the heck we chose him as manager. Fair question. Perhaps because the club came up with an idea of what they were looking for sometime past and with that criteria in place identified and got Hurst. That the brought about one of the best seasons (statistically) we've had. So it worked. Worked really well. So perhaps the club now sees this criteria as the best way to go about when looking for managers? Which may mean of course that we are recruiting someone who best fits some criteria rather than the best manager who maybe available. Just worry that the club are now constantly looking for the next Hurst when other, better, managers might be available. I mean Askey I can kinda understand with what he did at Macc even though that was a risk. Ricketts however, when looking to what he has done...
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Post by zenfootball2 on Jan 13, 2019 13:36:11 GMT 1
all the issues about Askey have been debated endlessly but seven league games in with 6 points out of 21 and two dire games route one football, tactically not at the races and no plan B. Rickets need to get a grip and turn things around because so far we are only heading in one direction as town seem to be sleepwalking in to relegation .
i really think we need an experienced number two, it is not rickets fault that he has virtually no experience as a manager but the people who recruited him
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2019 16:30:25 GMT 1
I agree, I 'm struggling to think why the heck we chose him as manager. Fair question. Perhaps because the club came up with an idea of what they were looking for sometime past and with that criteria in place identified and got Hurst. That the brought about one of the best seasons (statistically) we've had. So it worked. Worked really well. So perhaps the club now sees this criteria as the best way to go about when looking for managers? Which may mean of course that we are recruiting someone who best fits some criteria rather than the best manager who maybe available. Just worry that the club are now constantly looking for the next Hurst when other, better, managers might be available. I mean Askey I can kinda understand with what he did at Macc even though that was a risk. Ricketts however, when looking to what he has done... Except they aren't following the Hurst recruitment criteria. Hurst was recruited from a league 2 team that were in the play off's at the time of employment. He'd hit the ground running at the level giving reasonable optimism that he could replicate that with us. Askey had no league experience at that stage and Ricketts had barely any experience at National league level making both appointments extremely risky.
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Post by callum on Jan 13, 2019 16:35:42 GMT 1
Fair question. Perhaps because the club came up with an idea of what they were looking for sometime past and with that criteria in place identified and got Hurst. That the brought about one of the best seasons (statistically) we've had. So it worked. Worked really well. So perhaps the club now sees this criteria as the best way to go about when looking for managers? Which may mean of course that we are recruiting someone who best fits some criteria rather than the best manager who maybe available. Just worry that the club are now constantly looking for the next Hurst when other, better, managers might be available. I mean Askey I can kinda understand with what he did at Macc even though that was a risk. Ricketts however, when looking to what he has done... Except they aren't following the Hurst recruitment criteria. Hurst was recruited from a league 2 team that were in the play off's at the time of employment. He'd hit the ground running at the level giving reasonable optimism that he could replicate that with us. Askey had no league experience at that stage and Ricketts had barely any experience at National league level making both appointments extremely risky. Risky? I'd say bizarre. Bitten badly once why would you take the same route again.
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Post by Dale on Jan 13, 2019 16:38:02 GMT 1
And Fleetwood's last 10 away games including yesterday - W1 D2 L7. The 3 home draws against Bristol, Gillingham and Fleetwood were 6 points lost that shouldn't have been. You can add Peterborough to that list as well.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Jan 13, 2019 20:36:48 GMT 1
Fair question. Perhaps because the club came up with an idea of what they were looking for sometime past and with that criteria in place identified and got Hurst. That the brought about one of the best seasons (statistically) we've had. So it worked. Worked really well. So perhaps the club now sees this criteria as the best way to go about when looking for managers? Which may mean of course that we are recruiting someone who best fits some criteria rather than the best manager who maybe available. Just worry that the club are now constantly looking for the next Hurst when other, better, managers might be available. I mean Askey I can kinda understand with what he did at Macc even though that was a risk. Ricketts however, when looking to what he has done... Except they aren't following the Hurst recruitment criteria. Hurst was recruited from a league 2 team that were in the play off's at the time of employment. But how many league games did Hurst have under his belt when he made his move to Town from Grimsby? Wasn't that his first season managing in the League? Weren't the vast majority of his games managed in the non-league at the time? It would be ludicrous to suggest we are going to find someone with the exact same experience and in the exact same situation of course, that's not going to happen. But at the time of their appointments, haven't the last three Town managers had the vast majority of their experience in the non-league football (and done OK; Hurst with Grimsby, Askey with Macc and now Ricketts with Rexham)? So I disagree, unless we really had no choice we look to be making an effort to get relatively young inexperienced (at League level) managers in who have looked to have shown some ability in non-league football.
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Post by tvor on Jan 29, 2019 22:55:36 GMT 1
Oxford aside at least the team under Askey competed and rarely let in more than one goal per game, they just struggled to score enough goals.
I wonder what all those who were hounding Askey out after only a few games are thinking now.
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 29, 2019 23:02:02 GMT 1
Oxford aside at least the team under Askey competed and rarely let in more than one goal per game, they just struggled to score enough goals. I wonder what all those who were hounding Askey out after only a few games are thinking now. Bang on Everyone hates it when people say I told you so But I told you so. As did other level headed, rational fans amongst us I believe Askey would’ve kept us up. Ricketts is taking us down
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jan 29, 2019 23:04:41 GMT 1
Oxford aside at least the team under Askey competed and rarely let in more than one goal per game, they just struggled to score enough goals. I wonder what all those who were hounding Askey out after only a few games are thinking now. Bang on Everyone hates it when people say I told you so But I told you so. As did other level headed, rational fans amongst us I believe Askey would’ve kept us up. Ricketts is taking us down Both are taking us down! Should of appointed an experienced manager after the Askey gamble...instead we appointed another gamble.
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Post by accordingtome on Jan 29, 2019 23:05:07 GMT 1
Askey still wouldn't be playing Okinhibirie so take out his 14 goas he would be sending us down too
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Post by Valerioch on Jan 29, 2019 23:06:54 GMT 1
Apparently Askeys final 10 league games got 14 points Ricketts first 9 have 7 points
Askey has got over his awful first 8 games and had steadied our ship
Ricketts has stuck a load of nails in it and the water is seeping in
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Post by tvor on Jan 29, 2019 23:10:29 GMT 1
The side were, admittedly slowly, improving under Askey but people didn't have enough patience, or had made their minds up before the season had hardly started in some cases.
Town got 14 points from Askey's last 10 League 1 games in charge with 4 wins, oh for a run like that now.
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