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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 27, 2018 21:41:19 GMT 1
JC is a far bigger threat to this country than any deal. Because? Because the daily papers and the City money men will not take kindly to him, but, give 'em six months and they will get used to JC. If America can survive Trump we can get along ok with JC and his disciples.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 27, 2018 21:42:30 GMT 1
We keep hearing about how "overturning" the referendum result will lead to anarchy but the reality is that the Leave side has been pretty lethargic when it comes to getting people out on the street to protest. First, there was Farage's promised "million man march" or whatever in response to Gina Miller's case. A handful of people showed up in the end. There was only a handful of people there at the counter protest to the recent People's Vote March. Essentially, Leave were really good at harvesting clicks and likes from the disaffected, disengaged and apathetic but there's a big difference between that and actually getting out to protest. People also seem to forget that there are precedents. Republic of Ireland had a second referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Switzerland also backed down after a recent vote to end Freedom of Movement. Neither country has descended into anarchy since. Even the 5 star movement in Italy (who we were told were rabid leavers themselves) backed away from "Itexit" as a policy once they actually got into power Personally, I've not heard the word 'anarchy' since the Sex Pistols were on the scene. But would a Remain win provide fuel for the Right to become more prevalent in society, of course it would! Anyone's guess how that will end, personally I think we will see a definite (and longstanding) rise in hate crime across the country. Might be wrong, but I'm not complacent enough to think 'It'll never happen to us'.
The UK is not Ireland, Switzerland or Italy, it's the UK. Those are three terrible examples. The Lisbon treaty, was hardly the EU's finest hour, basically bullying Ireland into a 2nd vote, which only half the population cared for 1st time round and equally the same second time around. The Irish didn't really care that much, Project Fear ruled...and won! Isn't the EU lovely? And as for the Swiss, they voted on controlling mass immigration, but their country did bugger all about it. TM would say they 'didn't deliver' and their country has referendums all the time. Just a quick look at Wiki shows they've had 10 referendums this year already including one on the future of television and radio fees! As a nation they have less anarchy in them than Askey at a dinner party with the in-laws. The Italian's have a coalition government and Itexit is very much still on the agenda. Given a vote, the people appear just as undecided as the UK. Why is the EU so unpopular? If it was so great then surely there would be no question as to which way people would vote. Even Macron said the French would've voted to leave if they'd had a referendum instead of the Brits.
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Post by staffordshrew on Nov 27, 2018 21:59:35 GMT 1
There’s been much more intelligence in this thread on Brexit than in any of the threads about a new manager. Also more readable and understandable than anything in the media. I'll ruin that then with a stupid question and also upset Downie: I never wanted Maggie Thatcher, but she put up some sort of show in standing up to Europe (I don't think she really did). I tried to ignore that part of our history, but as I understand it she wasn't too keen on Europe but never mentioned referendums and I don't recall her thinking about a commons vote on leaving. The Tories, who seemed to think she was God's gift should, perhaps, have followed her example and argued from within the EU and snubbed the wayword backbenchers rather than giving them a referendum to appease them? And right now, having got this country into a far bigger mess than JC could ever do just for the sake of their own Tory party squabbles, our elected government should get on and do some governing.
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Post by tvor on Nov 27, 2018 22:02:45 GMT 1
This from Mike Harding yesterday summed the situation up very well for me.
Dear Mrs May
I am in France having a break having come here on the train all the way from Settle. I just read your letter to me and the rest of Britain wanting us all to unite behind the damp squib you call a deal. Unite? I laughed so much the mouthful of frogs legs I was eating ended up dancing all over the bald head of the bloke on the opposite table.
Your party’s little civil war has divided this country irreparably. The last time this happened Cromwell discontinued the custom of kings wearing their heads on their shoulders.
I had a mother who was of Irish descent, an English father who lies in a Dutch graveyard in the village where his Lancaster bomber fell in flames. I had a Polish stepfather who drove a tank for us in WW2 and I have two half Polish sisters and a half Polish brother who is married to a girl from Donegal.
My two uncles of Irish descent fought for Britain in N Africa and in Burma.
So far you have called us Citizens Of Nowhere and Queue Jumpers. You have now taken away our children and grandchildren’s freedom to travel, settle, live and work in mainland Europe.
You have made this country a vicious and much diminished place. You as Home Sec sent a van round telling foreigners to go home. You said “ illegal” but that was b******s as the legally here people of the Windrush generation soon discovered.
Your party has sold off our railways, water, electricity, gas, telecoms, Royal Mail etc until all we have left is the NHS and that is lined up for the US to have as soon as Hannon and Hunt can arrange it.
You have lied to the people of this country. You voted Remain yet changed your tune when the chance to grab the job of PM came. You should have sacked those lying barstewards Gove and Bojo but daren’t because you haven’t the actual power.
You have no answer to the British border on the island of Ireland nor do you know how the Gib border with Spain will work once we are out.
Mrs May you have helped to divide this country to such an extent that families and friends are now no longer talking to each other, you have managed to negotiate a deal far worse than the one we had and all to keep together a party of millionaires, Eton Bullingdon boys, spivs and WI harridans. Your party conserves nothing. It has sold everything off in the name of the free market.
You could have kept our industries going with investment and development – Germany managed it. But no – The Free Market won so Sunderland, Barnsley, Hamilton etc could all go to the devil.
So Mrs May my answer to your plea for unity is firstly that it is ridiculous.
48% of us will never forgive you for Brexit and secondly, of the 52% that voted for it many will not forgive you for not giving them what your lying comrades like Rees Mogg and anonf1 promised them.
There are no unicorns, there is no £350 million extra for the NHS. The economy will tank and there will be less taxes to help out the poor. We have 350,000 homeless (not rough sleepers – homeless) in one of the richest countries on Earth and you are about to increase that number with your damn fool Brexit.
The bald man has wiped the frogs legs of his head, I’ve bought him a glass of wine to say sorry; I’m typing this with one finger on my phone in France and I’m tired now and want to stop before my finger gets too tired to join the other one in a sailors salute to you and your squalid Brexit, your shabby xenophobia and Little Englander mentality.
Two fingers to you and your unity from this proud citizen of nowhere. I and roughly half the country will never forgive you or your party.
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 27, 2018 22:26:59 GMT 1
This from Mike Harding yesterday summed the situation up very well for me. Dear Mrs May
I am in France having a break having come here on the train all the way from Settle. I just read your letter to me and the rest of Britain wanting us all to unite behind the damp squib you call a deal. Unite? I laughed so much the mouthful of frogs legs I was eating ended up dancing all over the bald head of the bloke on the opposite table.
Your party’s little civil war has divided this country irreparably. The last time this happened Cromwell discontinued the custom of kings wearing their heads on their shoulders.
I had a mother who was of Irish descent, an English father who lies in a Dutch graveyard in the village where his Lancaster bomber fell in flames. I had a Polish stepfather who drove a tank for us in WW2 and I have two half Polish sisters and a half Polish brother who is married to a girl from Donegal.
My two uncles of Irish descent fought for Britain in N Africa and in Burma.
So far you have called us Citizens Of Nowhere and Queue Jumpers. You have now taken away our children and grandchildren’s freedom to travel, settle, live and work in mainland Europe.
You have made this country a vicious and much diminished place. You as Home Sec sent a van round telling foreigners to go home. You said “ illegal” but that was b******s as the legally here people of the Windrush generation soon discovered.
Your party has sold off our railways, water, electricity, gas, telecoms, Royal Mail etc until all we have left is the NHS and that is lined up for the US to have as soon as Hannon and Hunt can arrange it.
You have lied to the people of this country. You voted Remain yet changed your tune when the chance to grab the job of PM came. You should have sacked those lying barstewards Gove and Bojo but daren’t because you haven’t the actual power.
You have no answer to the British border on the island of Ireland nor do you know how the Gib border with Spain will work once we are out.
Mrs May you have helped to divide this country to such an extent that families and friends are now no longer talking to each other, you have managed to negotiate a deal far worse than the one we had and all to keep together a party of millionaires, Eton Bullingdon boys, spivs and WI harridans. Your party conserves nothing. It has sold everything off in the name of the free market.
You could have kept our industries going with investment and development – Germany managed it. But no – The Free Market won so Sunderland, Barnsley, Hamilton etc could all go to the devil.
So Mrs May my answer to your plea for unity is firstly that it is ridiculous.
48% of us will never forgive you for Brexit and secondly, of the 52% that voted for it many will not forgive you for not giving them what your lying comrades like Rees Mogg and anonf1 promised them.
There are no unicorns, there is no £350 million extra for the NHS. The economy will tank and there will be less taxes to help out the poor. We have 350,000 homeless (not rough sleepers – homeless) in one of the richest countries on Earth and you are about to increase that number with your damn fool Brexit.
The bald man has wiped the frogs legs of his head, I’ve bought him a glass of wine to say sorry; I’m typing this with one finger on my phone in France and I’m tired now and want to stop before my finger gets too tired to join the other one in a sailors salute to you and your squalid Brexit, your shabby xenophobia and Little Englander mentality.
Two fingers to you and your unity from this proud citizen of nowhere. I and roughly half the country will never forgive you or your party.Thing is, half the country will forgive the party. Come another General Election and I doubt the Lib-Dem's will mop up all those disgruntled Remainers! Maybe the Greens will go on a massive popularity surge? Make no mistake, given another Election it will be Tory vs Labour and Labour would win apart from one thing....Corbyn! His anti-monarchy, pro-CND, quiet-as-a-mouse-about-Brexit stance will just be pulled apart, every time. In a country where the government are useless, and following a period of austerity, on the back of Brexit division, it should be as easy as picking blackberries to get the Labour party into power. But it won't be. So Mr Harding, you are wrong, half the country will forgive TM and her government.
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Post by Stowmarket Shrew on Nov 27, 2018 23:07:48 GMT 1
I voted remain, but the reality of this 'deal' means I would actually rather leave with no deal than this fudge, that will leave us tied to EU rules for an indeterminate amount of time but with no say in them. May's mistake was to try and please everyone, ending up satisfying no one.
Lots more twists and turns to come here.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Nov 28, 2018 0:01:29 GMT 1
As a unreconstructed Bennite I voted to leave the EU. It makes sense, as in a divorce or a company demerger, that the terms of that decoupling is negotiated. In theory. In practice, as we saw with Greece, (another operative reason for me to vote leave) the EU doesn't negotiate. The result is what we can call the Hotel California scenario for the UK: it can check out but never leave.
So leaving makes leaving without an agreement a necessity.
There is then the matter of domestic policy and domestic politics. The arch Brexiters are the rentiers and exploiters of other peoples misery for profit. They wish to turn Britain into their playgound. Indeed, a number of them have made it clear that should we elect a government that doesn't meet with their approval, they will leave the country. The very same people have no conscience when they wrap themselves and their politics in the Union Flag beause they believe that at the core of British values is protection of their right to accumulate wealth unchecked and untaxed.
The one notable exception to this is the usurers. The City does not like Brexit at all. As the City has the money it can finance a centre party as an attempt to stop us leaving the EU or to get us back in as soon as possible. That, rather than the utterly talentless weasels promoting a centre party or a national government is the only reason that that political alignment has any legs.
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 29, 2018 10:36:57 GMT 1
JC is a far bigger threat to this country than any deal. Because? You love the play the daft card. Me and plenty of others have our reasons, and you know what they are. He is a serious danger to our economy and to add to that, far more dangerous than a no deal Brexit would be for the economy.
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Post by davycrockett on Nov 29, 2018 12:31:11 GMT 1
Please tell me what would happen on 29th of March to the Eire / Northern Ireland border if we leave without an agreement?
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Post by stfcfan87 on Nov 29, 2018 13:09:17 GMT 1
There would be no point in having a current deal/no deal choice on a 2nd public vote if the current deal had already been rejected by the Commons. That simply won't happen. As for being back at square one, frankly that's a much better place than we're in now. I agree that it seems unlikely the EU will concede more to a revised deal, in which case why would the same deal be taken back to the Commons if it had already been rejected? Nothing would have changed. There seems to be an accepted logic with some that a 2nd public vote would cause more division and uncertainty. It would be much less uncertain to have a straight choice between staying and leaving with no deal than the current mess! As for division, the potential anger of thwarted brexiteers is talked about often enough, the actual anger of remainers is largely ignored. If we do leave on 29 March, remainers aren't going to wake up on 30 March feeling all warm and positive. The country is divided and there is no way out of this that will put that right for a long time to come. So it's up to our politicians to do what's best for the country and accept that there will be upset and division whatever happens. Yeh why is there this idea that people who want to remain will somehow just accept it? The voting was pretty clear, the younger the voter, the more likely they were to vote remain. The age groups that will be most likely negatively effected by brexit are probably the young too, who already have it hard. Why are they going to be happy that the rich millionaires who have lied the country into voting brexit have got it, and done well out of it?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 13:18:47 GMT 1
Please tell me what would happen on 29th of March to the Eire / Northern Ireland border if we leave without an agreement? Well it would go something like this.. EU...... Errr Mrs May / Mr JRM..... you need to put up a border now as we dont have an agreement!!..... Answer.... **** off, you want one, you put it up..... EU to Eire..... right guys, UK aint playin ball, can you just pop up a border please...... Answer, no worries, can you just send us a few Million to fund this please, we tried having a border up to about 1993, and even the Armed Forces could not keep it secure, so it will need about 50,000 jobs to even get it close, and that will cost you errrrrr Billions each year...... and then they will find that its not really that necessary!! pretty much the same as they do on the Eastern borders of the EU!!
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 29, 2018 13:32:20 GMT 1
Please tell me what would happen on 29th of March to the Eire / Northern Ireland border if we leave without an agreement? Personally, I don't think anyone knows! The usual predictions will range from complete carnage to virtually no change to how it is currently. I'm guessing if you're a staunch Remainer then you'll be influenced by those who say it'll be complete carnage and if you're a staunch No Dealer then you'll be influenced by those who say there will be virtually no change. Just like anything in the Brexit Referendum it's about 'Who to believe' I suppose Cyprus is the closest example we have of a hard border, but nowadays it's very easy to pass from one side to the other. It's had its difficult times but once the dust had settled people now tend to just go about their business, with people on either side of the border regularly commuting from one side to the other and I doubt Ireland will be anywhere near as 'Hard' as Cyprus. That's just what I know from my wife having lived there and having close friends there who we speak to regularly. Brexit is about the immediate and long-term future of the UK, I don't know of anyone who thinks that leaving the EU will be without any difficulties, with Ireland and Gibraltar perhaps the two most difficult that will rumble on beyond any concerns on the economy. The Project Fear campaign was pretty clear on the carnage that might befall Ireland, Gibraltar and even the future of the UK itself. But knowing all this, we still chose to Leave.
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Post by percy on Nov 29, 2018 13:43:28 GMT 1
Please tell me what would happen on 29th of March to the Eire / Northern Ireland border if we leave without an agreement? Like the border between Switzerland and Germany / France - missed it completely when we went into Switzerland from France and going out into Germany we slowed down for a hut in the centre of the road but it was empty and we carried on.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 14:54:58 GMT 1
You love the play the daft card. Me and plenty of others have our reasons, and you know what they are. He is a serious danger to our economy and to add to that, far more dangerous than a no deal Brexit would be for the economy. ***to play*** No I don’t know what they are. I think you think it’s big and clever to make such stupid posts and so I’m challenging you to explain why. And as you still seem incapable of providing any kind of explanation for your pathetic and ill thought out statement, I’ll assume you made it to simply try and look big and clever.....and of course fail miserably!
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Post by timgallon on Nov 29, 2018 15:43:38 GMT 1
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Post by thesensationaljt on Nov 29, 2018 15:56:01 GMT 1
The question is, next Sunday evening, will you be watching 2 hapless souls pulling horrible faces as they face an impossible task, or will you be watching a bushtucker trial on I'm a celebrity?
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Post by martinshrew on Nov 29, 2018 16:16:02 GMT 1
You love the play the daft card. Me and plenty of others have our reasons, and you know what they are. He is a serious danger to our economy and to add to that, far more dangerous than a no deal Brexit would be for the economy. ***to play*** No I don’t know what they are. I think you think it’s big and clever to make such stupid posts and so I’m challenging you to explain why. And as you still seem incapable of providing any kind of explanation for your pathetic and ill thought out statement, I’ll assume you made it to simply try and look big and clever.....and of course fail miserably! Incorrect. JC claims they will "tax the super-rich" etc. The "super-rich" will invest their money elsewhere rather than in Britain, leaving less money to tax. The pot will dwindle, and they'll move onto over-taxation of the middle classes. There will be no incentive for high earners to work if they're being over taxed, which effectively makes for a less productive country. Harsh taxation regimes discourage risk takers, productivity and business/investment meaning the economy will suffer. You essentially make less in tax revenues this way. It’s clear that any talented individuals and individuals investing in business will simply invest in a more tax friendly environment.
It's well known that most economies grind to a halt under socialism.
Another point is debt. JC would continue with the standard spend, spend, spend mentality. The national debt would increase, but in addition to this our credit rating would essentially devalue meaning we'd pay more interest on our current levels of debt. It’s always the same under "new" Labour.
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Post by mattmw on Nov 29, 2018 16:57:26 GMT 1
Please tell me what would happen on 29th of March to the Eire / Northern Ireland border if we leave without an agreement? Well it would go something like this.. EU...... Errr Mrs May / Mr JRM..... you need to put up a border now as we dont have an agreement!!..... Answer.... **** off, you want one, you put it up..... EU to Eire..... right guys, UK aint playin ball, can you just pop up a border please...... Answer, no worries, can you just send us a few Million to fund this please, we tried having a border up to about 1993, and even the Armed Forces could not keep it secure, so it will need about 50,000 jobs to even get it close, and that will cost you errrrrr Billions each year...... and then they will find that its not really that necessary!! pretty much the same as they do on the Eastern borders of the EU!! The only slight snag with this case scenario is it’s not the EU who want a hard boarder between the North and South of Ireland - it our Government wanting it because of the red lines May set in the negotiations Being out of the single market and customs union, and not wanting free movement of people dictates there has to be a boarder. The alternative is no boarder and Northern Ireland remains in all these arrangements, therefore a part of the U.K. hasn’t left the EU (DUP won’t agree that) or you have unchecked boarders into the U.K. via Northern Ireland which is goes against “taking back control” Over two years not a single workable policy for maintaining the good Friday agreement (an international treaty so kinda important) whilst also meeting the UK’s red lines over EU withdrawal has been put forward. It’s not a simple process otherwise someone would have a solution by now
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Post by champagneprince on Nov 29, 2018 17:02:14 GMT 1
The question is, next Sunday evening, will you be watching 2 hapless souls pulling horrible faces as they face an impossible task, or will you be watching a bushtucker trial on I'm a celebrity? There might not even be a bushtucker trial yet. As far as I can tell, TM and Corbyn are divided on what channel to have the debate on (no change there then). So it could be that Corbyn debates with a video of TM on ITV and TM debates with a video of Corbyn on BBC, with both channels being co-joined on Sky There is also opposition by both sides of the House as some MP's prefer Channel 4, some prefer CBeebies and a few prefer Babestation. Jimmy Krankie will only consider STV. There's talk of a referendum to decide the issue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 17:13:04 GMT 1
***to play*** No I don’t know what they are. I think you think it’s big and clever to make such stupid posts and so I’m challenging you to explain why. And as you still seem incapable of providing any kind of explanation for your pathetic and ill thought out statement, I’ll assume you made it to simply try and look big and clever.....and of course fail miserably! Incorrect. JC claims they will "tax the super-rich" etc. The "super-rich" will invest their money elsewhere rather than in Britain, leaving less money to tax. The pot will dwindle, and they'll move onto over-taxation of the middle classes. There will be no incentive for high earners to work if they're being over taxed, which effectively makes for a less productive country. Harsh taxation regimes discourage risk takers, productivity and business/investment meaning the economy will suffer. You essentially make less in tax revenues this way. It’s clear that any talented individuals and individuals investing in business will simply invest in a more tax friendly environment.
It's well known that most economies grind to a halt under socialism.
Another point is debt. JC would continue with the standard spend, spend, spend mentality. The national debt would increase, but in addition to this our credit rating would essentially devalue meaning we'd pay more interest on our current levels of debt. It’s always the same under "new" Labour.
Thank you! That wasn’t so hard was it?
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 29, 2018 17:46:41 GMT 1
Let's just have an election. JC is a far bigger threat to this country than any deal. Not forgetting McDonnell and Abbott. The latter of which has been out this week criticizing the police and their methods when looking to tackle moped gangs. I just hope these people never get anywhere near government. But then stranger things have happened...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 17:56:39 GMT 1
JC is a far bigger threat to this country than any deal. Not forgetting McDonnell and Abbott. The latter of which has been out this week criticizing the police and their methods when looking to tackle moped gangs. I just hope these people never get anywhere near government. But then stranger things have happened... Well quite! I mean, May and Cameron for starters. Then Boris as foreign secretary. You couldn’t make it up
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Nov 29, 2018 18:01:13 GMT 1
Not forgetting McDonnell and Abbott. The latter of which has been out this week criticizing the police and their methods when looking to tackle moped gangs. I just hope these people never get anywhere near government. But then stranger things have happened... Well quite! I mean, May and Cameron for starters. Then Boris as foreign secretary. You couldn’t make it up I think i'd rather take my chances with all of those listed over Diane 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us' Abbott. She a one int she bless 'er...
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 18:26:02 GMT 1
Well quite! I mean, May and Cameron for starters. Then Boris as foreign secretary. You couldn’t make it up I think i'd rather take my chances with all of those listed over Diane 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us' Abbott. She a one int she bless 'er... Honestly I kind of agree. No fan of Abbott myself but I’d certainly trust her integrity over that of Boris. Perspectives I guess!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 18:26:03 GMT 1
***to play*** No I don’t know what they are. I think you think it’s big and clever to make such stupid posts and so I’m challenging you to explain why. And as you still seem incapable of providing any kind of explanation for your pathetic and ill thought out statement, I’ll assume you made it to simply try and look big and clever.....and of course fail miserably!
It's well known that most economies grind to a halt under socialism.
Like China. Who invest money in UK infrastructure and create real wealth as opposed to the 'super-rich' who horde their money. And Corybn isn't a socialist.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 18:33:09 GMT 1
I think i'd rather take my chances with all of those listed over Diane 'Every defeat of the British state is a victory for all of us' Abbott. She a one int she bless 'er... Honestly I kind of agree. No fan of Abbott myself but I’d certainly trust her integrity over that of Boris. Perspectives I guess! Boris. Privileged, self-entitled, Eton, Oxford, Bullington Club and born into an academic family. Diane, dad a welder, mum a nurse, off the estate and to Cambridge. In the climate of the 70s. Remarkable. It's not really about who I'd trust, or even admire, but more about someone who has done it the hard way, like a lot of us.
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Post by salop27 on Nov 29, 2018 19:36:50 GMT 1
If Corbyn isn't a socialist then why does he enjoy tweeting what a great job the government of Venezuela have done? He's either a socialist or a f ing idiot. Some might say both.
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Post by Pilch on Nov 29, 2018 19:54:33 GMT 1
I've just had the detailed breakdown of the agreement presented to me at work - suffice to say that my view is that it is a VERY VERY bad deal for the UK. May started off by saying that "no deal is better than a bad one" - she is now presenting a very bad deal and trying to tell us that it is better than no deal. I know that nobody wants to go to a second referendum but surely we cannot let this deal be done - this deal is just bafflingly bad for UK. I hope that this is rejected in the commons and we get a referendum that is a straight - 'Hard Brexit' or 'Remain' choice to settle the matter and forget negotiating with the EU 27 because we will never get a fair deal. I voted out so we can control who comes into the country and how many etc and start selling curved cucumbers again can't see why we just didn't leave months back stuff your deals EU
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Post by mattmw on Nov 29, 2018 20:09:24 GMT 1
I'd say the last Labour manifesto was more Keynesian or Democratic Socialist in outlook than Socialist. State ownership of utilities and infrastructure; using government capital to invest in infrastructure and a greater focus on using government funding to boost the economy are all quite common in Western politics - especially in Scandinavian countries. To an extent it was Keynesian economics that Obama employed to tackle the financial crisis during his time as US President, and are backed up by a lot of economists in times of low growth or recession.
The funding and tax levels proposed in the last Labour manifesto were actually pretty similar to the level public spending in the UK during the 80s and 90s, which presumably makes Thatcher, Major and Blair out to be Socialists too.
There are faults with Labour policies which rightly need to be challenged. Jibes about Socialism and Diane Abbott don't really add much to the argument unfortunately.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2018 20:10:33 GMT 1
Well it would go something like this.. EU...... Errr Mrs May / Mr JRM..... you need to put up a border now as we dont have an agreement!!..... Answer.... **** off, you want one, you put it up..... EU to Eire..... right guys, UK aint playin ball, can you just pop up a border please...... Answer, no worries, can you just send us a few Million to fund this please, we tried having a border up to about 1993, and even the Armed Forces could not keep it secure, so it will need about 50,000 jobs to even get it close, and that will cost you errrrrr Billions each year...... and then they will find that its not really that necessary!! pretty much the same as they do on the Eastern borders of the EU!! The only slight snag with this case scenario is it’s not the EU who want a hard boarder between the North and South of Ireland - it our Government wanting it because of the red lines May set in the negotiations Being out of the single market and customs union, and not wanting free movement of people dictates there has to be a boarder. The alternative is no boarder and Northern Ireland remains in all these arrangements, therefore a part of the U.K. hasn’t left the EU (DUP won’t agree that) or you have unchecked boarders into the U.K. via Northern Ireland which is goes against “taking back control” Over two years not a single workable policy for maintaining the good Friday agreement (an international treaty so kinda important) whilst also meeting the UK’s red lines over EU withdrawal has been put forward. It’s not a simple process otherwise someone would have a solution by now That's not true... UK has always maintained that the border can be a virtual border with technology crossings... it's the EU that are saying all about a hard border... how are the borders of Switzerland and to the east of Europe maintained without hard borders....
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