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Post by Dancin on Oct 23, 2017 12:50:28 GMT 1
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Post by shrewder on Oct 23, 2017 13:24:05 GMT 1
Was excellent. Watched all three episodes on iPlayer.
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Post by shrewder on Oct 23, 2017 13:28:29 GMT 1
Would add was also very educational. Makes you wonder why more isn't made of November 5th, instead of all the emphasis on the fictional American Halloween that really has no significance to our history.
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Post by Dancin on Oct 24, 2017 12:51:51 GMT 1
Watched first episode last night very good and a lot of factual content.
If you haven't ever seen GoT I can see why you might be a bit shocked. But that's what went on back then.
It was quicker than what Blackadder got at the end of the first series!
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Post by venceremos on Oct 24, 2017 14:00:27 GMT 1
Game of Thrones is a work of fantasy, so I don't think the two are comparable.
Gunpowder is from our own history and the violence is horribly real. The brutality and persecution is shocking but it's our ancestors who engaged in it.
I'd hate to have lived in an irrational time when superstition made people fearful and the powerful exploited that fear for their own selfish ends. Erm .....
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Post by Dancin on Oct 24, 2017 14:42:26 GMT 1
Game of Thrones is a work of fantasy, so I don't think the two are comparable. I was referring to the level of visual violence if you've never seen GoT Gunpowder would of been a shock but not in my opinion a reason to pick up the phone or write an email to complain.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 24, 2017 14:55:02 GMT 1
Game of Thrones is a work of fantasy, so I don't think the two are comparable. I was referring to the level of visual violence if you've never seen GoT Gunpowder would of been a shock but not in my opinion a reason to pick up the phone or write an email to complain. I can see that but I wonder whether the realism of Gunpowder would make it more shocking to some anyway? The thing about Gunpowder is nobody could say the violence is gratuitous. It's at the heart of a depiction of real events which, to me, is what makes it more disturbing than a fantasy drama could ever be. I can't understand why anyone would complain though. It's after the watershed and it's how our history was; it would be dishonest to sanitise it.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Oct 24, 2017 15:10:48 GMT 1
I see both sides of it.
On the one hand, it did really happen.
On the other, how gratuitously does it need to be depicted now we have hopefully moved on a little bit as a society?
In some ways I think people "expect" it from war films these days, but not necessarily from period dramas.
But they tortured people in that period, hence you see it.
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Post by zenfootball on Oct 24, 2017 15:31:30 GMT 1
if the level of violence and torture is historically correct and it seems to be then for people who may not be aware of historical context then it would be a shock ,it depends on what they were expecting clearly but we all have the off switch.
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Post by lenny on Oct 24, 2017 17:44:11 GMT 1
if the level of violence and torture is historically correct and it seems to be then for people who may not be aware of historical context then it would be a shock ,it depends on what they were expecting clearly but we all have the off switch. Not seen it but I think that's the key point: if it's too gross for you turn it off. I've gone off the walking dead, mainly for the decline in the quality of the plot and writing but also because it's now just a gore-fest and similarly never watch the "saw" films or others of that ilk. Surely the point of complaints isn't that you complain when you find the content not to your liking - it was post-watershed with plenty of warnings.
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Post by shrewder on Oct 25, 2017 6:59:54 GMT 1
if the level of violence and torture is historically correct and it seems to be then for people who may not be aware of historical context then it would be a shock ,it depends on what they were expecting clearly but we all have the off switch. Not seen it but I think that's the key point: if it's too gross for you turn it off. I've gone off the walking dead, mainly for the decline in the quality of the plot and writing but also because it's now just a gore-fest and similarly never watch the "saw" films or others of that ilk. Surely the point of complaints isn't that you complain when you find the content not to your liking - it was post-watershed with plenty of warnings. The point with Gunpowder it is factual so the violence is putting it into an historical perspective. All the other films and programmes mentioned are fiction and the violence is purely of the writers making. Yes you are right it was after the watershed. You do wonder if some just see it as just another violent story and don't realise it is factual history.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 8:21:48 GMT 1
Game of Thrones is a work of fantasy, so I don't think the two are comparable. Game of Thrones uses the War of the Roses as it's inspiration. George RR Martin originally wanted to write a historical novel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 9:37:51 GMT 1
watched the first 2 episodes last night and honestly can't see what the fuss was about.
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Post by sussexshrew on Oct 25, 2017 11:49:25 GMT 1
It is shocking; brutal violence is, and when realistically portraying real events, sanitising such violence is dishonest.
But it is shaming and no doubt very disturbing for some people where they see how easy it is for religious belief to generate such fervent hatred that allows you to dehumanise people who disagree with you. What hatred could inspire somebody to devise the punishment of being hung, drawn and quartered, usually after already inflicting other tortures to gain or attempt to gain a confession... and then killing them in an ultimate act of defilement, making the victims watch as they are completely dehumanised in death.
In Gunpowder, one of the first victims was the sweet-faced young Jesuit priest and in this episode of History it was the Catholics who were the victims, but in the same week, BBC4 aired the two part German drama, "Reformation" where then it was the Catholics who had the power and held the hatred to dehumanise the "heretics" who they tortured and killed without mercy. And of course for centuries it was the Jesuits who were prime instruments of the Inquisition, showing no mercy to the tens of thousands of broken, flayed and screaming bodies.
And of course before setting out on the Holocaust in Germany and Poland, it was necessary to turn human beings into the rats of the propaganda films so nobody would see Jews as humans like themselves.
Perhaps we should see how it was and get angry. Because have we moved on? In Myanmar now we see Buddhists, once thought of as followers of peace, beating, murdering and raping, because they hate Muslims. I watched a documentary also last week of gangs of young feral Hindus in India brutally beating to death anybody they could find involved in the cattle trade, while the authorities turned a blind eye... again driven by burning hatred and belief in "their" truth.
Throughout the Middle east, Muslims are killing other Faiths, and those who share a different strain of their own Faith, echoing the Christian divides of the past, including the not too distant pass... and a divide that in some places still simmers.
History shows that whenever a Faith hold the reins of Power they abuse it.. a fact also suffered by so many children through the ages having God beaten into them... and worse.
To paraphrase the American Physicist and Nobel prize winner, Steven Weinberg: For evil people to do evil deeds it is easy; for good people to do evil deeds, you need religion."
So programs such as Gunpowder are hard to watch at times... but maybe everybody should.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2017 13:27:05 GMT 1
It is shocking; brutal violence is, and when realistically portraying real events, sanitising such violence is dishonest. But it is shaming and no doubt very disturbing for some people where they see how easy it is for religious belief to generate such fervent hatred that allows you to dehumanise people who disagree with you. What hatred could inspire somebody to devise the punishment of being hung, drawn and quartered, usually after already inflicting other tortures to gain or attempt to gain a confession... and then killing them in an ultimate act of defilement, making the victims watch as they are completely dehumanised in death. In Gunpowder, one of the first victims was the sweet-faced young Jesuit priest and in this episode of History it was the Catholics who were the victims, but in the same week, BBC4 aired the two part German drama, "Reformation" where then it was the Catholics who had the power and held the hatred to dehumanise the "heretics" who they tortured and killed without mercy. And of course for centuries it was the Jesuits who were prime instruments of the Inquisition, showing no mercy to the tens of thousands of broken, flayed and screaming bodies. And of course before setting out on the Holocaust in Germany and Poland, it was necessary to turn human beings into the rats of the propaganda films so nobody would see Jews as humans like themselves. Perhaps we should see how it was and get angry. Because have we moved on? In Myanmar now we see Buddhists, once thought of as followers of peace, beating, murdering and raping, because they hate Muslims. I watched a documentary also last week of gangs of young feral Hindus in India brutally beating to death anybody they could find involved in the cattle trade, while the authorities turned a blind eye... again driven by burning hatred and belief in "their" truth. Throughout the Middle east, Muslims are killing other Faiths, and those who share a different strain of their own Faith, echoing the Christian divides of the past, including the not too distant pass... and a divide that in some places still simmers. History shows that whenever a Faith hold the reins of Power they abuse it.. a fact also suffered by so many children through the ages having God beaten into them... and worse. To paraphrase the American Physicist and Nobel prize winner, Steven Weinberg: For evil people to do evil deeds it is easy; for good people to do evil deeds, you need religion." So programs such as Gunpowder are hard to watch at times... but maybe everybody should. Great post. I take my hat off to you sir!!
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Post by RBA on Oct 25, 2017 13:59:28 GMT 1
It is shocking; brutal violence is, and when realistically portraying real events, sanitising such violence is dishonest. But it is shaming and no doubt very disturbing for some people where they see how easy it is for religious belief to generate such fervent hatred that allows you to dehumanise people who disagree with you. What hatred could inspire somebody to devise the punishment of being hung, drawn and quartered, usually after already inflicting other tortures to gain or attempt to gain a confession... and then killing them in an ultimate act of defilement, making the victims watch as they are completely dehumanised in death. In Gunpowder, one of the first victims was the sweet-faced young Jesuit priest and in this episode of History it was the Catholics who were the victims, but in the same week, BBC4 aired the two part German drama, "Reformation" where then it was the Catholics who had the power and held the hatred to dehumanise the "heretics" who they tortured and killed without mercy. And of course for centuries it was the Jesuits who were prime instruments of the Inquisition, showing no mercy to the tens of thousands of broken, flayed and screaming bodies. And of course before setting out on the Holocaust in Germany and Poland, it was necessary to turn human beings into the rats of the propaganda films so nobody would see Jews as humans like themselves. Perhaps we should see how it was and get angry. Because have we moved on? In Myanmar now we see Buddhists, once thought of as followers of peace, beating, murdering and raping, because they hate Muslims. I watched a documentary also last week of gangs of young feral Hindus in India brutally beating to death anybody they could find involved in the cattle trade, while the authorities turned a blind eye... again driven by burning hatred and belief in "their" truth. Throughout the Middle east, Muslims are killing other Faiths, and those who share a different strain of their own Faith, echoing the Christian divides of the past, including the not too distant pass... and a divide that in some places still simmers. History shows that whenever a Faith hold the reins of Power they abuse it.. a fact also suffered by so many children through the ages having God beaten into them... and worse. To paraphrase the American Physicist and Nobel prize winner, Steven Weinberg: For evil people to do evil deeds it is easy; for good people to do evil deeds, you need religion." So programs such as Gunpowder are hard to watch at times... but maybe everybody should. Great post. I take my hat off to you sir!! Interesting post but Weinberg quote is nonsense historically unless by religion he means any belief system (and we all have them) in the 20th century Stalin Hitler and Mao became the biggest mass murderers in human history None of them were what we woul have called religious This is not to deny the fact religious people are capable of evil as the TV programme depicts - the sad truth is religious people atheists and agnostics are capable of great evil
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