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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 11:43:19 GMT 1
I know this is on another thread, however, to some this is an extremely important issue that needs addressing. To remind everyone: 77 year old Roger Goodall killed 11 year Olivia Violet Reeves, when he knocked her down whilst driving his Range Rover. Goodall was over the drink drive limit Goodall had bought 6 bottles of wine that day Goodall had downed at least 1 bottle of wine Goodall had empty water bottles that were filled with alcohol Goodall chose to drive when drunk Goodall ignored doctors instructions to inform DVLA about previous alcohol related blackouts Goodall was doing 43mph in a 30 zone when he hit Olivia Goodall destroyed a lamppost, a telegraph pole, a garden wall and most importantly - a family Goodall sent Olivia 20 metres through the air Goodall asked to leave the scene as he had been drinking Goodall has shown no remorse whatsoever Causing death by dangerous driving- contrary to Road Traffic Act 1988 s.1- maximum sentence 14 YEARS Causing death by careless driving while under the influence of drink or drugs- contrary to Road Traffic Act 1988 s.3A- maximum sentence- 14 YEARS This animal was sentenced to just 4 1/2 years. He will be out in less than 2. Olivia’s family will serve an indeterminate sentence. Please join the other 7000 people and sign this petition to have this sentence reviewed. For Olivia and her family Many thanks www.change.org/p/the-attorney-general-help-get-justice-for-olivia-justiceforolivia
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2017 12:39:34 GMT 1
i'm not against all that but dont forget alcoholism is an illness, and unlike drugs its freely available at most shops and not enough is done to control it
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2017 12:52:32 GMT 1
i'm not against all that but dont forget alcoholism is an illness, and unlike drugs its freely available at most shops and not enough is done to control it Now that’s what you call a can of worms Pilch!
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Post by jamo on Oct 20, 2017 12:57:37 GMT 1
i'm not against all that but dont forget alcoholism is an illness, and unlike drugs its freely available at most shops and not enough is done to control it good luck with that !
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block13
Shropshire County League
Posts: 54
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Post by block13 on Oct 20, 2017 13:08:24 GMT 1
i'm not against all that but dont forget alcoholism is an illness, and unlike drugs its freely available at most shops and not enough is done to control it Sounds like your trying to make excuses for him. Yes its an illness but that doesn't mean you should be lenient with the sentence. Hes the one that should have tried to get help with his problem, and he knows he should not have been driving. You reap what you sow.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2017 13:14:28 GMT 1
just to be clear, i'm not defending this chap, i hoped he'd have got 10 years
the fact he bought 6 bottles of wine might be as most supermarkets offer a good discount on 6 bottles
just pointing out that its a mental illness, probably the most overlooked problem in our country and also a problem that a lot of people dont know they have and cannot control getting behind the wheel is a sad consequence of this
lynch this chap by all means but its like tackling terrorists, taking one out doesnt solve the problem there is another one around the corner
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Post by wakemanender on Oct 20, 2017 13:29:50 GMT 1
Cancel the petition. This chap is just ill.
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 13:35:20 GMT 1
Firstly, thanks for diverting away from the main point of this thread- the petition. Very helpful!! Secondly, I often agree with many of your posts Pilch, but this is bordering dillusional?? Getting behind the wheel is a consequence??? For real? No it was a choice. A choice that Olivia suffered the consequence of- with her life. An innocent 11 year old girl just walking home. Many people will purchase a 6 bottle of wine offer. But how many CHOOSE to stop in a lay-by and down one of those bottles, whilst in control of a 2 tonne killing machine?? Was his lack of remorse also a consequence of drink, or of someone who frankly just couldn’t give a damn?!
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 13:38:53 GMT 1
And seriously, comparing it to terrorism??? Just wow?!
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2017 13:40:22 GMT 1
never lived with an alcoholic then ?
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 13:42:48 GMT 1
No excuse
Never lost a child then??
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2017 13:46:25 GMT 1
And seriously, comparing it to terrorism??? Just wow?! my point was, we need to tackle the drink problem as there are many blokes like this waiting to happen and it will happen again its one thing an idiot like wayne rooney thinking he can get away with a one off its a total different problem when we have people doing this 365 days a year, not because they think they can get away with it but because they have a mental issue which they cannot control you do make it sound like he planned the whole thing with your list and is happy with the outcome and again, i'll say i think his sentence was too light but we need to tackle the cause
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 13:47:00 GMT 1
Many many people suffer alcohol addiction. Do they all CHOOSE to drive??
Do they all kill someone??
Do they all fail to inform the authorities about alcohol related health problems, which would have prevented him from being licensed to drive??
These were all choices
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Post by NelsonShrew on Oct 20, 2017 13:54:14 GMT 1
just to be clear, i'm not defending this chap, i hoped he'd have got 10 years the fact he bought 6 bottles of wine might be as most supermarkets offer a good discount on 6 bottles just pointing out that its a mental illness, probably the most overlooked problem in our country and also a problem that a lot of people dont know they have and cannot control getting behind the wheel is a sad consequence of this lynch this chap by all means but its like tackling terrorists, taking one out doesnt solve the problem there is another one around the corner Correct, Alcholism is an illness. Which can tear families apart. However, there is no illness which.... makes you get into car whilst drunk ignore the instructions of doctors and show no remorse for what he has done Hes a horrible horrible creature - who i hope gets beat to within an inch of his life continually inside!!
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Post by timgallon on Oct 20, 2017 13:55:11 GMT 1
Pathetic postings Pilch, really pathetic.
You’ve got a daughter, imagine if this had been her instead and you had read what you have written.
We’ve all got opinions but sometimes they are best kept in your head.
Rather than arguing the toss and digging yourself into a deeper hole it would be better if you just deleted your posts, unless your too arrogant to do so?
Anyway, petition signed and shared, which was what this thread was all about in the first place.
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Post by wakemanender on Oct 20, 2017 14:02:31 GMT 1
Very very angry and disappointed that the question of alcoholism being an illness has been brought up on this thread. If we are to debate this topic start a new thread. Do not associate it with the death of this child. A very bad post by Pilch in the worst possible taste at what is still and always will be for the family a very distressing time prolonged by the inefficiency of the justice system.
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Post by Pilch on Oct 20, 2017 14:06:23 GMT 1
Pathetic postings Pilch, really pathetic. You’ve got a daughter, imagine if this had been her instead and you had read what you have written. We’ve all got opinions but sometimes they are best kept in your head. Rather than arguing the toss and digging yourself into a deeper hole it would be better if you just deleted your posts, unless your too arrogant to do so? Anyway, petition signed and shared, which was what this thread was all about in the first place. i agree with you tim about my kids i'd want to kill the chap anyway back to topic lock this bloke up forever move on regardless of why i'll leave the lynch mob alone now
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Post by lenny on Oct 20, 2017 14:11:39 GMT 1
I don't agree that Pilch has said anything particularly out of order here, to be honest. My interpretation isn't at all that he isn't showing sympathy to the family or doesn't disagree that the act was heinous (in fact he's pointed out, twice, that he also believes he should have been given a longer sentence) rather that - in addition to concerns about this sentence - the fact that not enough is done to try and reduce the impact that alcoholism can have. Yes, of course it wasn't the only reason for this murder and the decision he made to drive, hide the wine (and own such a vehicle quite frankly) and try and evade justice really is deplorable - and that's why he should be in prison for a long time. The two beliefs are not at all mutually exclusive. The suggestion that Pilch should delete his posts is a bizarre one.
I'm also not entirely sure how comfortable I am signing this petition. I, like pretty much everyone else, agree that the sentence seems incredible lenient and far too much credit was given to the guilty plea when he basically had no choice. I don't know the entire facts of the case and whether or not there were other extenuating circumstances and signing petitions acting as a lynch mob when I'm not fully informed doesn't really sit well with me. If there was one to look at reviewing the amount of credit given to guilty pleas with this as a potential example I'd be more than happy to sign that, but this just doesn't really feel right to me but of course I can understand the emotion behind it.
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 14:19:29 GMT 1
And seriously, comparing it to terrorism??? Just wow?! my point was, we need to tackle the drink problem as there are many blokes like this waiting to happen and it will happen again its one thing an idiot like wayne rooney thinking he can get away with a one off its a total different problem when we have people doing this 365 days a year, not because they think they can get away with it but because they have a mental issue which they cannot control you do make it sound like he planned the whole thing with your list and is happy with the outcome and again, i'll say i think his sentence was too light but we need to tackle the cause Whether or not my list makes it sound like he planned it - I couldn’t give a monkeys chuff. I have listed facts. And yes we have had an alcoholic in the family. And yes, we have lost a child (under different circumstances). And yes, my family is directly connected to Olivia. And have you stopped to think that part of the cause of so many drink drivers, maybe the ridiculously lenient sentences handed out by the judicial system?? That is exactly what this petition is trying to address?!
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Post by lenny on Oct 20, 2017 14:27:23 GMT 1
my point was, we need to tackle the drink problem as there are many blokes like this waiting to happen and it will happen again its one thing an idiot like wayne rooney thinking he can get away with a one off its a total different problem when we have people doing this 365 days a year, not because they think they can get away with it but because they have a mental issue which they cannot control you do make it sound like he planned the whole thing with your list and is happy with the outcome and again, i'll say i think his sentence was too light but we need to tackle the cause And have you stopped to think that part of the cause of so many drink drivers, maybe the ridiculously lenient sentences handed out by the judicial system?? That is exactly what this petition is trying to address?! My issue is that it isn't - at least directly - what this petition is trying to address. It's just about increasing one man's sentence. A petition for higher minimum/maximum sentences for drink-driving would be one I'd be more comfortable getting behind wholeheartedly.
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 14:40:21 GMT 1
And have you stopped to think that part of the cause of so many drink drivers, maybe the ridiculously lenient sentences handed out by the judicial system?? That is exactly what this petition is trying to address?! My issue is that it isn't - at least directly - what this petition is trying to address. It's just about increasing one man's sentence. A petition for higher minimum/maximum sentences for drink-driving would be one I'd be more comfortable getting behind wholeheartedly. Point taken But there are higher tariffs- 14 years. But until they are properly enforced, they are not an effective deterrent. And as for plea reduction, don’t get me started on that!! You’re pleading guilty because you did it. It doesn’t make it any less of a crime.
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Post by trojanskin on Oct 20, 2017 14:44:35 GMT 1
Whilst I agree that the sentence dished out was far too low, I question what difference signing a petition really makes?
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andycapp
Midland League Division One
Posts: 369
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Post by andycapp on Oct 20, 2017 15:02:00 GMT 1
Signed it last night
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 15:15:50 GMT 1
Whilst I agree that the sentence dished out was far too low, I question what difference signing a petition really makes? Perhaps a question best answered by Olivia’s mum?? Less than 2 years for unlawfully taking a child’s life?
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Post by northwestman on Oct 20, 2017 15:21:34 GMT 1
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Post by mattmw on Oct 20, 2017 15:23:57 GMT 1
Would like to try and find the judges summing up and reasons for the sentence, as that normally sheds light on how much scope they have to issue long sentences.
Does anyone know where and when this case was tried?
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Post by horse01 on Oct 20, 2017 15:40:30 GMT 1
Would like to try and find the judges summing up and reasons for the sentence, as that normally sheds light on how much scope they have to issue long sentences. Does anyone know where and when this case was tried? Wolverhampton Crown Court September 7th/8th I believe
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Post by zenfootball on Oct 20, 2017 15:47:14 GMT 1
i fail to understand why we cant have offences like vehicle homicide and vehicle manslaughter with clear definitions. this man may have a dependency issue but he presumably had capacity and understood the potential consequences to my mind that is vehicle homicide and sentences should reflect this.his age is irrelevant the family get a life sentence. what is the point of impact statements and then judges give the minimum sentence .
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Post by wakemanender on Oct 20, 2017 15:53:06 GMT 1
It does make you wonder what someone has to do to get the maximum sentence. Ok the judge has to give credit for a guilty plea but the circumstances of this case plus the lack of remorse surely couldn't get much worse. How has the judge calculated such a reduction from the maximum. Surely an explanation isn't too much to ask.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 20, 2017 16:17:53 GMT 1
i fail to understand why we cant have offences like vehicle homicide and vehicle manslaughter with clear definitions. this man may have a dependency issue but he presumably had capacity and understood the potential consequences to my mind that is vehicle homicide and sentences should reflect this.his age is irrelevant the family get a life sentence. what is the point of impact statements and then judges give the minimum sentence . I'm not referring to this one case, my comments here are general, so please don't come after me on that point. You can't have a vehicle murder crime because, terrorists apart, does anyone use a car with the intention to kill? A perpetrator might be negligent, remorseless, despicable and so on but did they intend to kill? That's what needs to be proven for murder. Manslaughter is a different case but I don't see why a vehicle is any different to a knife, fist, boot or whatever. It's the means by which someone kills and is killed. I'm surprised manslaughter convictions don't seem to arise more often in killings by drunk or otherwise dangerous drivers.
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