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Post by Dale on May 1, 2016 11:26:28 GMT 1
GT is a absolute legend, he seems to be enjoying retirement at the moment but I can never see him going back anywhere as a manager, director of football? If MM decides to leave then the prospect of GT as DoF with a young ambitious head coach such as Ian Sharps may not be such a bad idea.
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Post by Dale on May 1, 2016 11:27:41 GMT 1
Graham Turner lost the plot with his total belief in signing players on loan with no passion and no connection with fans. He did it at Hereford and Town AND FAILED He achieved six promotions as a manager, doesn't sound like a failure to me?
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Post by scooter on May 1, 2016 11:28:12 GMT 1
No for me, never go back. Turner had two shots at this league and they were nothing short of awful, the first rescued by that donkey Eaves. First season up we stayed up with time to spare.....unlike this outing where we've only been saved due to a freak result at Crewe. Would have Turner in a Director of Football working with Mellon/whoever... Doncaster losing to anyone is not a freak result. The freak result was Doncaster beating Wigan and keeping their hopes up for an extra couple of weeks we have been just above the bottom 4 most of the season and that is where we will finish.
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Post by lenny on May 1, 2016 11:35:39 GMT 1
IIRC we finished 16th and were never in the relegation zone all season. I know we like to be pessimistic but that was definitely more convincing than this season. Unless you're being pedantic regarding he phrase "his first season"! We headed into the penultimate Saturday on 48 points, and after a goalless draw and results elsewhere, we were mathematically safe on 49 points with a week left to go. We then won a couple of dead rubbers to finish on 55 points, which gave us a bit of gloss, but it was very similar to this year, and certainly no more convincing. Short memories is an unhealthy characteristic of football fans. Penultimate Saturday but with three games left? So we secured survival earlier, (and I believe with three games to go we were all but safe in fact but that brings in too much subjectivity) and accrued more points. And my other point about not being in the bottom four all season? There was a bit of worry from some quarters of the fanbase but most of the time fans were confident of staying up - which does make a difference. If the majority of fans think you'll stay up throughout the season, i.e. they're convinced, then it's hard to argue you didn't stay up more convincingly.
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Post by northwestman on May 1, 2016 11:36:07 GMT 1
GT is a absolute legend, he seems to be enjoying retirement at the moment but I can never see him going back anywhere as a manager, director of football? If MM decides to leave then the prospect of GT as DoF with a young ambitious head coach such as Ian Sharps may not be such a bad idea. Yes. I still feel that Sharps could contribute a lot to this Club and would jump at the chance of doing so. But can't see that happening until MJ is no longer on the books.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on May 1, 2016 12:40:14 GMT 1
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. This new school of management seems to be the same as the old school of management. Same results anyhow.
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 1, 2016 13:05:12 GMT 1
My apologies to the OP, I never suspected that he had a sense of humour.
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Post by shrewsace on May 1, 2016 13:43:02 GMT 1
Graham Turner lost the plot with his total belief in signing players on loan with no passion and no connection with fans. He did it at Hereford and Town AND FAILED Let's just qualify your statement a bit: Mellon used more loan signings than GT in getting promoted from L2. GT's loan signings kept us in L1 4 years ago. MM's loan signings have kept us in L1 this season. Several of the top L1 sides this season have had multiple loan signings. Managers live and die by the quality of their signings regardless of whether they are loan or permanent. Especially considering the new rules which encourage loans to stay longer, I look forward to seeing plenty of quality loan players at STFC next season. The loan-heavy approach only kicked in once we had been promoted to League One, I think everyone accepts that. There was a fans Q&A with Mike Jackson shortly after he took over as caretaker and I remember he pointed to the number of loans as a problem in gelling the side, and surely he would've known?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 15:24:56 GMT 1
Too stuborn tactically for the modern game which was found out in League One once we had an inferior squad to most teams. Also... Dave Winfield, need I say more.
Mellon despite his own flaws has a better nack for picking the right team. The only time he is naive is scenarios such as the Walsall game last week when he stuck with a winning team when we knew Walsall would play one up front and wingers against our centre halves stretching the 3 CBs.
Mellon should be kept if possible. If not new young blood. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank, Eddie Howe. Younger managers have been spawning a few success stories lately.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 16:20:20 GMT 1
If not new young blood. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank, Eddie Howe. Younger managers have been spawning a few success stories lately. The same Eddie Howe who is currently managing Bournemouth in the Premier League? Top shout.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 18:49:25 GMT 1
I think we should leave GT to a long and thoroughly deserved retirement. He is a total legend but his legacy was slightly tarnished by the events of 13/14 which turned out to be his Waterloo . In the great scheme of things it won't change the fact that he was our most successful manager to date.
I've got nothing but admiration for the great man.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 20:57:49 GMT 1
If not new young blood. Jimmy Floyd Hasselbank, Eddie Howe. Younger managers have been spawning a few success stories lately. The same Eddie Howe who is currently managing Bournemouth in the Premier League? Top shout. Should be quite apparent Im not saying hire them with the jobs they have. Im using them as examples of young managers having great impacts on clubs rather than your genius idea of hiring Turner again despite his track record in League one in recent times. Turners second year in League One was shocking. A shambles of a squad and he knew it was time to retire. To be quite honest Mellon is the man for this club and all should be done to keep him. Hes a realistic manager who loves the game. Having lost the spine of our promotion side he has done his job and kept us up. Hes a legend of the club and gave us a few great League Two seasons but Turners time has passed. And again... Winfield. You saw him. He is in the company of Murdoch and Redmile for poor CBs to have played for Town.
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2016 21:43:18 GMT 1
The same Eddie Howe who is currently managing Bournemouth in the Premier League? Top shout. Should be quite apparent Im not saying hire them with the jobs they have. Im using them as examples of young managers having great impacts on clubs rather than your genius idea of hiring Turner again despite his track record in League one in recent times. Turners second year in League One was shocking. A shambles of a squad and he knew it was time to retire. Yes it was a shambles but many people would argue this season has not been much better, Chesterfield away, Wigan at home, terrible home record, disasterous summer signings, senior players leaving mid-season etc Looking back GT should have walked away after we stayed up in our first season but to me he will still be the man who delivered third division football to us, something that we had been after for many years and something many younger managers failed to provide. Not bad for a bit of a footballing dinosaur which some people allude to
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Post by mattmw on May 3, 2016 22:17:14 GMT 1
Think both Turner and Mellon suffered from the same issue of the club as a whole not being that we'll set up for league one off the pitch
Lots of similarities about odd contracts, strange loan signings and a lack of forward planning took place in Turners final season and again this year
Just as Eaves goals saved us in the first season back in league one, Kaikai's goals have this season. Without those goals we'd have been down weeks ago
It's great we were able to bring in a player like that but think whoever the manager is will struggle with us in league one unless the club starts to take this league seriously
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Post by Eric Rex on May 3, 2016 22:33:18 GMT 1
Meet the new boss. Same as the old boss. This new school of management seems to be the same as the old school of management. Same results anyhow. We won't get fooled again!
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 15:53:40 GMT 1
Should be quite apparent Im not saying hire them with the jobs they have. Im using them as examples of young managers having great impacts on clubs rather than your genius idea of hiring Turner again despite his track record in League one in recent times. Turners second year in League One was shocking. A shambles of a squad and he knew it was time to retire. Yes it was a shambles but many people would argue this season has not been much better, Chesterfield away, Wigan at home, terrible home record, disasterous summer signings, senior players leaving mid-season etc Looking back GT should have walked away after we stayed up in our first season but to me he will still be the man who delivered third division football to us, something that we had been after for many years and something many younger managers failed to provide. Not bad for a bit of a footballing dinosaur which some people allude to Both years in League One besides the signings or other events Turner was too stuborn tactically. The formation was set in stone. Everybody knew what we were going to do each week. 442. Yes he got us up but it took him 2-3 years may I point out. Mellon rebuilt the squad and did it in one with Goldson and Woods pretty much all he kept. Mellon has shown the versatility needed in League One as a smaller club. Most teams are better than us for quality and Mellon knows how to grind out results and change it up.
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Post by jamo on May 4, 2016 17:04:33 GMT 1
The managers appointment is not the priority recruitment matter at the football club
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Post by Pilch on May 4, 2016 17:51:16 GMT 1
some people forget that turner actually had 3 cracks at this league with us
he won it once
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 18:15:09 GMT 1
Theres no room for sentiment in any succesful sports organisation. What have you done for me lately is the attitude if you want to maintain successful. Football is what quite a lot of people have to realise very different now than 1979. Paisley won his third Liverpool title that year. Chelsea went down to the Second Division and the first multi million pound player Trevor Francis moved. (WIKIPEDIA)
Turner is currently 68 and obviously a legend but this would not be a wise move for the long term health of the club. We need to achieve League One stability.
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Post by Dale on May 4, 2016 18:47:55 GMT 1
Looking back GT should have walked away after we stayed up in our first season but to me he will still be the man who delivered third division football to us I heard GT had intentions to retire at the end of the 2012-13 season but was persuaded to stay on for another year by the chairman, GT also offered his resignation after the Walsall FA Cup shambles and again the chairman persuaded him to stay on.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 18:59:19 GMT 1
Yes it was a shambles but many people would argue this season has not been much better, Chesterfield away, Wigan at home, terrible home record, disasterous summer signings, senior players leaving mid-season etc Looking back GT should have walked away after we stayed up in our first season but to me he will still be the man who delivered third division football to us, something that we had been after for many years and something many younger managers failed to provide. Not bad for a bit of a footballing dinosaur which some people allude to Both years in League One besides the signings or other events Turner was too stuborn tactically. The formation was set in stone. Everybody knew what we were going to do each week. 442. Yes he got us up but it took him 2-3 years may I point out. Mellon rebuilt the squad and did it in one with Goldson and Woods pretty much all he kept. Mellon has shown the versatility needed in League One as a smaller club. Most teams are better than us for quality and Mellon knows how to grind out results and change it up. Interesting analysis but one I totally disagree with even though I am very happy for MM to have another crack at L1 next season: 1) A bit of stubbornness tactically wouldn't have gone a miss this season as our own players wouldn't have had a clue what formation MM was going to play from one week to the next. 2) It took Turner just 2 seasons to get us promoted even with the handicap of many of Paul Simpson's signings for the first season or so and even then we were only denied by Wycombe's ghost goal. Several times MM has talked about it being good that he had A clean piece of paper to start. In fact it turns out Turner left him 2 much better players than any he was going to acquire! 3) Mellon has ground out just enough results in the end to keep us up in about the same position as GT left us in and below the position GT achieved in his first L1 season. Both managers have done an equally good job for us but have struggled to make us competitive in L1.
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Post by Bob Rickerton on May 4, 2016 19:46:35 GMT 1
Both years in League One besides the signings or other events Turner was too stuborn tactically. The formation was set in stone. Everybody knew what we were going to do each week. 442. Yes he got us up but it took him 2-3 years may I point out. Mellon rebuilt the squad and did it in one with Goldson and Woods pretty much all he kept. Mellon has shown the versatility needed in League One as a smaller club. Most teams are better than us for quality and Mellon knows how to grind out results and change it up. Interesting analysis but one I totally disagree with even though I am very happy for MM to have another crack at L1 next season: 1) A bit of stubbornness tactically wouldn't have gone a miss this season as our own players wouldn't have had a clue what formation MM was going to play from one week to the next. 2) It took Turner just 2 seasons to get us promoted even with the handicap of many of Paul Simpson's signings for the first season and even then we were only denied by Wycombe's ghost goal. Several times MM has talked about it being good that he had clean piece of paper to start. In fact it turns out Turner left him 2 much better players than he was going to acquire! 3) Mellon has ground out just enough results in the end to keep us up in about the same position as GT left us in and below the position GT achieved in his first L1 season. Both managers have done an equally good job for us but have struggled to make us competitive in L1. Good post. I'd also argue that League 2 was a stronger division, and as a result harder to get out of, in Turner's two seasons.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on May 4, 2016 19:48:27 GMT 1
Graham Turner lost the plot with his total belief in signing players on loan with no passion and no connection with fans. He did it at Hereford and Town AND FAILED He achieved six promotions as a manager, doesn't sound like a failure to me? So has Steve Evans,perhaps we should consider him IF MM decides to leave We all know that RW is a very cautious Chairman, I cannot see him wishing to change the manager for the sake of it. I can only imagine that there will be a change if MM wants to leave and go to a North West based job, therefore closer to his family and home Recalling MMs interview with Radio Shropshire on Saturday has convinced me that he was speaking directly at the Chairman,and not really to us fans. We all know that MM has a rolling 12 month contract,which is reviewed at the end of each season. MM stated that in Year 1 the target was promotion and as MM stated that was achieved. Year 2 stay in L1 again achieved. I would imagine that Year 3 is for a mid table finish, MM cautioned that we need to sign L1 ready players,rather than those with potential for L1. I have no doubt that this comment was aimed directly at RW in view of their forthcoming discussions
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2016 21:02:52 GMT 1
Both years in League One besides the signings or other events Turner was too stuborn tactically. The formation was set in stone. Everybody knew what we were going to do each week. 442. Yes he got us up but it took him 2-3 years may I point out. Mellon rebuilt the squad and did it in one with Goldson and Woods pretty much all he kept. Mellon has shown the versatility needed in League One as a smaller club. Most teams are better than us for quality and Mellon knows how to grind out results and change it up. Interesting analysis but one I totally disagree with even though I am very happy for MM to have another crack at L1 next season: 1) A bit of stubbornness tactically wouldn't have gone a miss this season as our own players wouldn't have had a clue what formation MM was going to play from one week to the next. 2) It took Turner just 2 seasons to get us promoted even with the handicap of many of Paul Simpson's signings for the first season or so and even then we were only denied by Wycombe's ghost goal. Several times MM has talked about it being good that he had A clean piece of paper to start. In fact it turns out Turner left him 2 much better players than any he was going to acquire! 3) Mellon has ground out just enough results in the end to keep us up in about the same position as GT left us in and below the position GT achieved in his first L1 season. Both managers have done an equally good job for us but have struggled to make us competitive in L1. Turner had a league one summer to fix it and failed. Mellon has not.
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Post by mattmw on May 4, 2016 21:43:53 GMT 1
Interesting analysis but one I totally disagree with even though I am very happy for MM to have another crack at L1 next season: 1) A bit of stubbornness tactically wouldn't have gone a miss this season as our own players wouldn't have had a clue what formation MM was going to play from one week to the next. 2) It took Turner just 2 seasons to get us promoted even with the handicap of many of Paul Simpson's signings for the first season or so and even then we were only denied by Wycombe's ghost goal. Several times MM has talked about it being good that he had A clean piece of paper to start. In fact it turns out Turner left him 2 much better players than any he was going to acquire! 3) Mellon has ground out just enough results in the end to keep us up in about the same position as GT left us in and below the position GT achieved in his first L1 season. Both managers have done an equally good job for us but have struggled to make us competitive in L1. Turner had a league one summer to fix it and failed. Mellon has not. That assumption has yet to be tested. From Mellon's post match interview on Saturday it seems putting together a good league one team is as much about the finances available as to the quality of the manager I personally think it's hard to split Turner and Mellon in turns of achievement as they both have done well and put together successful teams but also neither of them are the most modern of managers or that tactically astute However like a few other posters I think they have done the best they could with the resources available, but we're professional enough not to mention where the problems really lie at the club
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2016 13:02:34 GMT 1
Theres no room for sentiment in any succesful sports organisation.
Using your own argument Mellon could be on shaky grounds because of lack of progress on the pitch this season. For me I'm still (slightly) in the Mellon camp but that is mainly for sentimental reasons because he was so successful 12 months ago and deserves another opportunity.
Mellon showed no sentiment last summer by ruthlessly getting rid of many of the players he felt were not good enough for L1 (I actually thought he was not ruthless enough), Roland could equally say to Mellon 'thanks for last year but this year hasn't been good enough'
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Post by markglasgow on May 7, 2016 15:39:48 GMT 1
Not convinced that the relationship between GT and RW would afford a return in any capacity.
Roland was most scathing of the loan route Turner either happily embraced or had foisted upon him. The criticism was surprising as I would imagine the chairman would have signed off each of these non-perm signings as they were made. Indeed GT would not have been able to make signings such as Black/Whitbread/Gerrard/Wellens/Grandin etc as the transfer policy (which would have been set by the chairman) at the time allowed for money to be spent only on perm signings who could develop and be potentially sold on.
Can only wish Turner the best and remain eternally grateful for everything the man achieved for our club.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 7, 2016 16:01:11 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 7, 2016 16:15:59 GMT 1
Well, that's definitely a back me or sack me statement by MM.
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