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Post by Dancin on Apr 26, 2016 13:28:14 GMT 1
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Post by champagneprince on Apr 27, 2016 21:30:42 GMT 1
Will the council make shoppers use the Park and Ride or will they be able to park outside the store?
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Post by untamedshrew on Apr 27, 2016 22:10:28 GMT 1
I am actually a 'Planning Consultant' and have looked at the planning application in depth also. LIDL will have to submit a Traffic Management Plan (which is likely to be a pre-commencement planning condition, which is why there is not one online currently). I see no reason why highways should have an issue with the proposal in terms of trip generation and from a highways safety perspective.
Despite being a biased private sector planner, I am all for this planning application to be honest. It is also obviously on land currently in the clubs ownership and the sale of the land will only add to the STFC funds (I hope).
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Post by mattmw on Apr 27, 2016 22:54:09 GMT 1
Think it's very much a speculative application which is as much about retailers playing for space in that part of town, and potentially stopping competitors from getting into the area
Areas of the urban extension in that area have already been designated for retail outlets, and potential providers of those sites are Lidl competitors.
The community space is a particular issue which may well need further investigation and one I'm not sure the club is on a great footing with, so think this is far from certain of either getting planning permission or actually being built if permission is granted
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Post by jontifree on Apr 28, 2016 8:33:19 GMT 1
I had heard that Lidl have agreed that they would be closed on match days. Seems a bit bizarre for a store to agree to close every other Saturday. This could be a very cunning way of extending the amount of on-site matchday parking.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 28, 2016 8:45:22 GMT 1
I guess that makes sense. Makes sense I mean in that it would be chaos come match day if there were also shoppers coming and going too. I don't know the ins and outs of it but I gather the club do benefit from this but I think I'd prefer the area was left as is and was used for recreation only. Don't fancy having a supermarket next door, I've memories of Boothferry Park. It's not much charm or a homely feel about the place as it is, not sure a Lidl will help with that. If it is available for something why not a supporters bar and new club shop?
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Post by mattmw on Apr 28, 2016 15:50:56 GMT 1
I had heard that Lidl have agreed that they would be closed on match days. Seems a bit bizarre for a store to agree to close every other Saturday. This could be a very cunning way of extending the amount of on-site matchday parking. That isn't listed in the planning application, only that extra staff would be available on match day to manage the car park. Otherwise the application is for a 7 day a week opening. I find it hard to believe a retailer would decide not to open for 20 or so Saturday afternoons which are their busiest trading days
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 15:56:58 GMT 1
It's not much charm or a homely feel about the place as it is, not sure a Lidl will help with that. If it is available for something why not a supporters bar and new club shop? 100% Agree. Also, any ideas if the supermarket will pay rent to the club or will they buy the land outright? Either way a very disappointing move that makes me feel that this ground is such a lost opportunity.
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 28, 2016 16:10:32 GMT 1
Im going to have a good look at this tomorrow, and see if there is anything from a Highways point of view i can see. Even if its an outline application, they should still have submitted something.
For me, It takes an age to get out of the car park on a match day, and the though of 20/30 other cars and people coming in and out at the same time added to the mix has me worried if the current car park exit strategy is maintained. Currently the people coming out are relatively unopposed, if LIDL is built that wont be the case.
There is a roundabout there already, and adding an extra arm on this really does make it a whole other ball game about how that junction currently operates.
Also car park management becomes a nightmare... you cant scan people in and out at the gate or check passes, as people will want to go to the shops...
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Post by franthetownfan on Apr 28, 2016 16:52:05 GMT 1
I had heard that Lidl have agreed that they would be closed on match days. Seems a bit bizarre for a store to agree to close every other Saturday. This could be a very cunning way of extending the amount of on-site matchday parking. Why would a massive retailer be closed on the busiest day of the week? Nobody would ever agree to that.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 17:22:32 GMT 1
I get the impression that a few people aren't happy that this store is being built on ground designated for community use. Watch this space so to speak.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 17:59:47 GMT 1
Just heard on Radio Shropshire that STFC intend to apply to move community pitches to behind south stand when Sundourne training pitches are up and running. They would use some of investment to make community pitches 4G which would allow greater usage of facility by the public... Seems fair enough to me.
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Post by prawnsarnie on Apr 28, 2016 20:02:45 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:25:10 GMT 1
I can just imagine loads of shoppers climbing over the fence on Oteley Road to get to the bargains on offer at Lidl. They'll be some wonderful introductory offers on opening day . I hear the big one will be " Buy a Barnett , get a Vassell free ".
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:28:11 GMT 1
I can just imagine loads of shoppers climbing over the fence on Oteley Road to get to the bargains on offer at Lidl. They'll be some wonderful introductory offers on opening day . I hear the big one will be " Buy a Barnett , get a Vassell free ". Seriously you would think the deal may provide an option to resolve the fence issue once and for all...
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:34:06 GMT 1
I can just imagine loads of shoppers climbing over the fence on Oteley Road to get to the bargains on offer at Lidl. They'll be some wonderful introductory offers on opening day . I hear the big one will be " Buy a Barnett , get a Vassell free ". Seriously you would think the deal may provide an option to resolve the fence issue once and for all... Paul , I've been banging on about the bloody fence for ages . Ive given up , the Club couldn't give a s**te if it collapses . Maybe the fence issue will be resolved but no thanks to Shrewsbury Town FC.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 28, 2016 22:28:49 GMT 1
Does beg the question though what sort of numbers they are expecting if and when they are opened. I mean as supporters it's all about parking miles out and using the travel plan to get to the stadium and back, this was put in place because someone somewhere wanted to avoid traffic about the stadium on the match day wasn't it? So if that's the case, how come a Lidl might well pop up allowing, I gather, folk to come and go as they please parking at the site. Appreciate its staggered but it would still be a fair bit more traffic about the place on a Saturday wouldn't it. Which I thought was to be avoided?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 23:59:06 GMT 1
I just get the feeling that this has all the makings of a disaster. Next season the main topic of conversation won't be the pies , the fence, Super Blues Away etc,etc, it will all be about the traffic snarl up , danger to pedestrians and whatever else comes about because of the new Lidl . To put it more succinctly , a f.ck up of gigantic proportions is looming .
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Post by Matster on Apr 29, 2016 7:12:43 GMT 1
Hasn't Waitrose halted planning for their site due to another supermarket in the area being planned.
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Post by ssshrew on Apr 29, 2016 7:52:58 GMT 1
Yes.
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Post by Dancin on Apr 29, 2016 8:25:29 GMT 1
Im going to have a good look at this tomorrow, and see if there is anything from a Highways point of view i can see. Even if its an outline application, they should still have submitted something. For me, It takes an age to get out of the car park on a match day, and the though of 20/30 other cars and people coming in and out at the same time added to the mix has me worried if the current car park exit strategy is maintained. Currently the people coming out are relatively unopposed, if LIDL is built that wont be the case. There is a roundabout there already, and adding an extra arm on this really does make it a whole other ball game about how that junction currently operates. Also car park management becomes a nightmare... you cant scan people in and out at the gate or check passes, as people will want to go to the shops... Proposed Access PlanLocation PlanTransport Assessment - 141 pages!
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 29, 2016 8:48:47 GMT 1
Pretty sure the entrance is seperate to our car park entrance off the approach road (through existing fence) ....
does seem a strange place to site a store, the only benefit to STFC being the one off payment we'll receive but you can only get this once... Bit like selling your garden then having to accommodate your new neighbours for the next 50 years.
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Post by Dancin on Apr 29, 2016 8:55:05 GMT 1
Pretty sure the entrance is seperate to our car park entrance off the approach road (through existing fence) .... Not according to the Access Plan above?
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 29, 2016 8:57:35 GMT 1
Pretty sure the entrance is seperate to our car park entrance off the approach road (through existing fence) .... Not according to the Access Plan above? Says currently unavailable, what's it show?
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 29, 2016 9:08:02 GMT 1
Yeah I cant see the documents either... Was looking forward to getting my teeth stuck into a 141 page Transport Assessment. Normally i'm writing them!
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Post by Dancin on Apr 29, 2016 9:37:43 GMT 1
Yeah I cant see the documents either... Was looking forward to getting my teeth stuck into a 141 page Transport Assessment. Normally i'm writing them! I can't either now it maybe that their updating the comments and everything is off? Or someone from STFC has asked for them to be taken down?!
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 29, 2016 9:43:51 GMT 1
I got the transport assessment open.... direct from the website... lets have a look!
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Post by El Huracán!!!! on Apr 29, 2016 10:27:34 GMT 1
Highlights from the Transport Assessment
The Stor Car Park will have 142 spaces and these will be time limited to 90 minutes.
Description o9f Super Blues Way (LOL)
“A traffic-free pedestrian route runs to the west of the development site, and along the western boundary of the STFC stadium, however the footpath is more of an informal route with gravel surfacing and the path is not directly lit.”
As far as I can tell all the information on the stadium was based on a survey of a game here only 4,959 people attended a match. A little lower than our average attendance and a weakness in the document.
Interesting stuff on existing parking. We could only originally have 1 space per 15 seats – 658. Town recently got permission to extend this to 1000 spaces, quite the increase. The planning application TA waves this off saying its not proposed to be implemented imminently, but I’m under the impression this will be done this summer. Again a weakness in the TA as it then has a baseline of the maximum number of vehicle trying to leave the car park on a match day way lower than could be the case with a 1000 space car park.
I would agree no grounds for the development to be stopped on highways safety terms based on existing records of accidents.
The Site Access Proposals
• Reconfiguration of the existing mini roundabout in accordance with DMRB standards – Basically this would be a bigger more formal roundabout (24m wide) – This would be over the location of the existing gate, but there is no evidence as to where that gate would move to, and how car parking operations as they currently are could be monitored.
• Addition of a fourth arm on the roundabout to provide access to the food store which results in the loss of two of the marked coach spaces
• Relocation of the existing pedestrian crossing point on the Stadium Access Road to the north of the roundabout and revised access route into the stadium area for pedestrians and cyclists – This will result with a formal “lighted” crossing on the stadium access road. No evidence as to the impacts this may cause are included within the TA.
• Provision of a shared pedestrian / cycle access into the site off the Stadium Access Road as well as a pedestrian access point from the B4380 Oteley Road
• Relocation of existing gates on the Stadium Access Road so that they do not impact on the operation of the mini-roundabout – As I said no evidence of where these would be located to and how the town would be able to have a closed off stadium with how these proposals are presented.
• Installation of appropriate signage on the approaches to the mini-roundabout to direct users of the stadium, food store and 3G pitches.
I would note however that “The access proposals will be subject to more detailed discussions and review with stakeholders including SC Highways and the football club at the post application stage to agree highway layout” – Bit of a dodge as this means none of the above is fixed, the applicant and the town can have a further say. I would have thought though that this could have been sorted at this up front stage, its key to the determination and SC should really be sure this will all work.
Ok so the assessment of the impact of the trips. This has been done for two periods Friday PM Peak hour and strangely Saturday 12-1pm. There is no formal impact of the STFC Match day peaks… it is considered in the paragraph below
It is considered that the majority of Lidl customers will not seek to access the proposed development by car during the peak periods on a matchday (1400-1500 for arrivals and 1630-1730 for departures), with home matches taking place approximately every two weeks. As a consequence, this will lead to a degree of peak spreading on a matchday in terms of trips associated with the Lidl store so that shoppers avoid the football traffic. As such the existing peak hour flows on a Saturday matchday represent a worst case situation in terms of the development traffic impact.
As such the TA cannot give us any evidence of this will affect the access egress of people to the stadium at the busy times. It simply can’t.
No detailed assessment of the roundabout or the signalised junction at the end of the access road has been undertaken. Just a series of assumptions as to why could happen. Again that’s pretty weak.
My view. Its probably gets approval on highways terms, SC will probably discount most of the issues I raised above if they believe the weak justification, and don’t care about potential impacts on football fans 24 games a year.
It gives SC the ability to make a determination, but as a fan, or a STFC car park user, it does not answer one single question as to what the impacts might be on the time it takes me to arrive and depart the ground. Remember SC will not make determination on the impacts of how the internal STFC car parking arrangements are effected, just the impacts on the local highways network which are minimal. STFC have not objected to this (as they have money riding on it).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 12:16:20 GMT 1
Thank you for tha EH . Am I right in thinking then that these are outline proposals and will be worked up as and when the project nears the actual building stage taking into account comments from local residents , STFC and , I say this with , the supporters of STFC. OR , is there a stage inthe planning process when everything is done and dusted and the project goes as detailed on the plans. I can see the club being between a rock and a hard place over this as they obviously want to see Lidl purchase the land but also need to consider how the store will impact on the Towns match days with regard to its customers . Are STFC supporters able to comment on the plans? . I take it such comments will be accepted as relevant as I assume the vast majority will not live in the area but never the less have an " interest " .?
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Post by Dancin on Apr 29, 2016 12:22:29 GMT 1
Are STFC supporters able to comment on the plans? . I take it such comments will be accepted as relevant as I assume the vast majority will not live in the area but never the less have an " interest " .? Yes, but you need to register Application Comment Page
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