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Post by shrewsace on Apr 28, 2016 19:29:32 GMT 1
I do wonder how do they came to this conclusion? That... Heysel was caused as much by 'neutral' tickets falling into the hands of rival fans as it was to hooliganism.
That's nonsense. It was caused by hooliganism. Nowt else. i totally agree , i watched it happen live i really don't mind getting shot down just because i have my own opinion and it differs to others i really could say a lot on this but i'll make life easy and pretend heysel never happened Why bring it up now though, rather than, say, on the anniversary of Heysel? What's it's relevance to Hillsborough? Do you now accept Hillsborough was in no way caused by Liverpool fans - as has been found by the two-year inquest - or do you have a differing personal opinion?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:33:36 GMT 1
Heysel is a different story and a different discussion altogether. Anyone who responds with 'yeah, but what about Heysel' after the heartbroken families of those 96 fans finally get justice following 27 years of lies and cover ups is a bell end unable to separate footballing rivalry from genuine tragedy. Spot on
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 19:36:39 GMT 1
Because they were in a mixed enclosure - IE not separated from each other. Thats the whole point of segregation. And? You know it is quite possible to stand next to someone at the match who happens to support the other side without having the need to kick the s**t out of them. They could have simply stood together and watched the match, right? It was hooliganism that caused the issues. **** me their adults aren't they, they should of been well capable of watching the game stood to next to a supporter of the opposition. Instead they played up and people lost their lives as a result. Ever thought that's why we have segregation... Because certain types can't manage that. F**k me the police cover up 96 deaths and we have a row over an completely unrelated event.
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Post by mattmw on Apr 28, 2016 19:37:17 GMT 1
Don't think anyone is pretending Heysel didn't happen?
The official Heysel enquiry concluded that hooliganism, stadium design and ticket allocations were the three key factors behind the disaster.
That enquiry was completed and prosecutions all made within 4 years of the event, which as far as I'm aware haven't been questioned since that time.
Had the true facts of Hillsborough been made public and acted on in the same time frame as Heysel I imagine that disaster while still raw for those involved wouldn't have had the same resonance with the public as it now
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2016 19:48:26 GMT 1
i totally agree , i watched it happen live i really don't mind getting shot down just because i have my own opinion and it differs to others i really could say a lot on this but i'll make life easy and pretend heysel never happened Why bring it up now though, rather than, say, on the anniversary of Heysel? What's it's relevance to Hillsborough? Do you now accept Hillsborough was in no way caused by Liverpool fans - as has been found by the two-year inquest - or do you have a differing personal opinion? do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 28, 2016 20:33:17 GMT 1
Why bring it up now though, rather than, say, on the anniversary of Heysel? What's it's relevance to Hillsborough? Do you now accept Hillsborough was in no way caused by Liverpool fans - as has been found by the two-year inquest - or do you have a differing personal opinion? do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others It's an opinion based on a refusal to accept the evidence, presumably due to your open hatred for Liverpool FC born of your allegiance to their fiercest rivals. Continuing to point the finger despite all the evidence - examined openly, thoroughly and at length in court - is surely worse than a bit of 'name calling'. On that point, I don't think you're a bell end, but I do find your stance on this is issue really baffling. I know die hard United supporters who have no time for Liverpool, but still stand in solidarity with the #JTF96 campaign, because we're all football fans, we're all human beings. And I still don't understand why you would bring the issue of Heysel into a discussion about Hillsborough...
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Post by Feedo Gnasher on Apr 28, 2016 20:45:05 GMT 1
Why bring it up now though, rather than, say, on the anniversary of Heysel? What's it's relevance to Hillsborough? Do you now accept Hillsborough was in no way caused by Liverpool fans - as has been found by the two-year inquest - or do you have a differing personal opinion? do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others Those two jurors voted differently on the unlawful killings issue, there were unanimous in agreement that Liverpool fans were not to blame in anyway. And they've had two years of evidence provided to them.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 28, 2016 20:51:41 GMT 1
do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others Those two jurors voted differently on the unlawful killings issue, there were unanimous in agreement that Liverpool fans were not to blame in anyway. And they've had two years of evidence provided to them. Precisely!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:10:59 GMT 1
Why bring it up now though, rather than, say, on the anniversary of Heysel? What's it's relevance to Hillsborough? Do you now accept Hillsborough was in no way caused by Liverpool fans - as has been found by the two-year inquest - or do you have a differing personal opinion? do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others Oh yeah your being the grown up mature person allowing your support of United to cloud your opinion on the death of 96 people and the cover up of the TRUTH. The police didnt see these people as human beings, just scum. And that is how it appears you see them. You fail to empathise with the families of 96 people because they support your rivals. Any other reason has been disproven by our legal system. 38/39 of them were kids. Younger than 19 yet their blood alchol levels were taken as part of the attempt to smere these peoples names. The inquiry has shown the stadium was inadequate. The command failed opening the gates yet not closing the tunnel. Emergency services lack of response. 3 ambulances on the pitch as 96 people died. What legally backed evidence from this inquiry do you have besides the team they followed and your own prejudice. If you need some material watch the BBC 2013 Panorama on the cover up.
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Post by jamo on Apr 28, 2016 21:26:10 GMT 1
In this countries history The Hillborough tragedy stands alone as a totally avoidable disaster.
Its aftermath shames us all, football fan or not.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2016 21:32:51 GMT 1
what has this got to do with man united ? now thats a cheap shot on your part as I've mentioned on here many times united fans were as bad as liverpool fans for travelling without tickets and trying every trick in the book to gain entry to a big game and yes no matter how many hundreds were pleading for the gate to be opened it shouldn't have opened if only we could go back to that day, knowing what we know now i know for a fact, no one would have turned up without a ticket or would they ? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-459708/Ticket-stealing-Liverpool-fans-branded-worst-Europe-UEFA.htmlsame happened in istanbul you'd think if just one clubs fans would no do this sort of thing it would be liverpools
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:40:26 GMT 1
I guess nobody can really understand the horror that those 96 fans went through on that tragic day. But anybody who was brought up watching big games during the 70s and 80s will have experienced the helplessness and worries of being crushed in large crowds either inside or outside the ground. Whilst this week's events may bring some kind of closure for some, I get the feeling that the events of that day will be analysed and discussed for many years to come yet.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2016 21:41:11 GMT 1
do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others It's an opinion based on a refusal to accept the evidence, presumably due to your open hatred for Liverpool FC born of your allegiance to their fiercest rivals. Continuing to point the finger despite all the evidence - examined openly, thoroughly and at length in court - is surely worse than a bit of 'name calling'. On that point, I don't think you're a bell end, but I do find your stance on this is issue really baffling. I know die hard United supporters who have no time for Liverpool, but still stand in solidarity with the #JTF96 campaign, because we're all football fans, we're all human beings. And I still don't understand why you would bring the issue of Heysel into a discussion about Hillsborough... i hear what your saying basically shut up about heysel lets discuss this weeks sun newspaper instead, because thats more important
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2016 21:45:37 GMT 1
what has this got to do with man united ? now thats a cheap shot on your part as I've mentioned on here many times united fans were as bad as liverpool fans for travelling without tickets and trying every trick in the book to gain entry to a big game and yes no matter how many hundreds were pleading for the gate to be opened it shouldn't have opened if only we could go back to that day, knowing what we know now i know for a fact, no one would have turned up without a ticket or would they ? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-459708/Ticket-stealing-Liverpool-fans-branded-worst-Europe-UEFA.htmlsame happened in istanbul you'd think if just one clubs fans would no do this sort of thing it would be liverpools But the extra fans were not the cause. The reason a crush occured outside was because with 1 hour to kick off 8000 fans with tickets had not entered. That works out at 19 fans to each turnstile per minute to get them in the ground. One every 3 seconds. Liverpool only had 7 turnstiles to 20+ for Forrest. The stadium caused this surge as design and poor policing did not allow proper queing. Do some research. Otherwise it will appear your just doing this because you are a United fan. Its not a cheap shot if you are using the misleading arguments police created to shift the blame.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 28, 2016 21:45:51 GMT 1
what has this got to do with man united ? now thats a cheap shot on your part as I've mentioned on here many times united fans were as bad as liverpool fans for travelling without tickets and trying every trick in the book to gain entry to a big game and yes no matter how many hundreds were pleading for the gate to be opened it shouldn't have opened if only we could go back to that day, knowing what we know now i know for a fact, no one would have turned up without a ticket or would they ? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-459708/Ticket-stealing-Liverpool-fans-branded-worst-Europe-UEFA.htmlsame happened in istanbul you'd think if just one clubs fans would no do this sort of thing it would be liverpools So now we're moving on to Istanbul? Bizarre. Lets leave aside the question of whether your allegiance to United plays any part in your insistence that Liverpool fans contributed to the Hillsborough disaster. Why bring Heysel into a discussion on Hillsborough? And why stick fast to your opinion that Liverpool fans were at fault contrary to all the evidence? Really finding it hard to see where you're coming from on this one.
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Post by shrewsace on Apr 28, 2016 21:48:07 GMT 1
It's an opinion based on a refusal to accept the evidence, presumably due to your open hatred for Liverpool FC born of your allegiance to their fiercest rivals. Continuing to point the finger despite all the evidence - examined openly, thoroughly and at length in court - is surely worse than a bit of 'name calling'. On that point, I don't think you're a bell end, but I do find your stance on this is issue really baffling. I know die hard United supporters who have no time for Liverpool, but still stand in solidarity with the #JTF96 campaign, because we're all football fans, we're all human beings. And I still don't understand why you would bring the issue of Heysel into a discussion about Hillsborough... i hear what your saying basically shut up about heysel lets discuss this weeks sun newspaper instead, because thats more important More deflections than Frank Lampard. Any chance of a straight answer?
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Post by mattmw on Apr 28, 2016 21:48:40 GMT 1
what has this got to do with man united ? now thats a cheap shot on your part as I've mentioned on here many times united fans were as bad as liverpool fans for travelling without tickets and trying every trick in the book to gain entry to a big game and yes no matter how many hundreds were pleading for the gate to be opened it shouldn't have opened if only we could go back to that day, knowing what we know now i know for a fact, no one would have turned up without a ticket or would they ? www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-459708/Ticket-stealing-Liverpool-fans-branded-worst-Europe-UEFA.htmlsame happened in istanbul you'd think if just one clubs fans would no do this sort of thing it would be liverpools But the Taylor Report, 2014 enquiry and the 2 year inquest looked into the ticketless fans claim and found it to be untrue in the case of Hillsborough? The 2014 enquiry in particular went into significant exploration of the issue, using CCTV from the day and found that within the whole Lepping's Lane end there was more than sufficient space for all the fans arriving in that end. No police reports or intelligence on the day suggested ticketless fans had arrived. Those suggestions only came later when it was claimed fans rushed the gate and forced it to be opened. Which we now know to be a lie by Duckenfield, later "backed up" by fabricated Police reports
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Post by northwestman on Apr 28, 2016 21:50:11 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on Apr 28, 2016 21:58:52 GMT 1
do i have to accept a decision ? no mate, i dont i have my own opinions maybe i was one of the 2 jurors who voted different to the others perhaps i should resort to calling names like you do to those who have a different opinion to others Oh yeah your being the grown up mature person allowing your support of United to cloud your opinion on the death of 96 people and the cover up of the TRUTH. The police didnt see these people as human beings, just scum. And that is how it appears you see them. You fail to empathise with the families of 96 people because they support your rivals. Any other reason has been disproven by our legal system. 38/39 of them were kids. Younger than 19 yet their blood alchol levels were taken as part of the attempt to smere these peoples names. The inquiry has shown the stadium was inadequate. The command failed opening the gates yet not closing the tunnel. Emergency services lack of response. 3 ambulances on the pitch as 96 people died. What legally backed evidence from this inquiry do you have besides the team they followed and your own prejudice. If you need some material watch the BBC 2013 Panorama on the cover up. as much as you try in vain to brainwash me and keep mentioning man united which is totally irrelevant, even though i did see them once this season (first time since the 80s) must make be a fan i suppose even if i was in the town end as a town supporter i have my opinion, you have yours ps they can't even beat villa ;-)
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 28, 2016 22:08:07 GMT 1
And? You know it is quite possible to stand next to someone at the match who happens to support the other side without having the need to kick the s**t out of them. They could have simply stood together and watched the match, right? It was hooliganism that caused the issues. **** me their adults aren't they, they should of been well capable of watching the game stood to next to a supporter of the opposition. Instead they played up and people lost their lives as a result. Ever thought that's why we have segregation... Because certain types can't manage that. Sure. But the blame is on those certain types who can't manage that. No one else.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Apr 28, 2016 22:16:49 GMT 1
Because they were in a mixed enclosure - IE not separated from each other. Thats the whole point of segregation. And also I did say it was as much to blame - was not denying that hooliganism was not also to blame. I'm just saying I disagree, it was hooliganism that was to blame. Anyhows, we'll have to agree to disagree. At least we can all agree that it was good news today regarding Hillsborough.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2016 0:59:37 GMT 1
Anyhows, we'll have to agree to disagree. At least we can all agree that it was good news today regarding Hillsborough. Most certainly!
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Post by returnofthehype on May 15, 2016 3:28:04 GMT 1
I hope we don't see that scumbag MacKenzie on Question Time again. Where's 'Thatcherschild'? You should be ashamed of yourself. I can only assume your disgusting remark about Mrs thatcher followed by this...was down to your muselli went down the wrong way
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