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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 13:00:45 GMT 1
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Post by ssshrew on Oct 1, 2015 13:48:53 GMT 1
But sadly no great surprise. The FA doesn't have any bottle to take on the likes of Chelsea.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 1, 2015 16:49:53 GMT 1
Quite possibly true. However, the more important aspect for Eva Carneiro is likely to be any action she brings against Chelsea. I hope she does - for the principle, not because it's Chelsea.
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Post by mrbunny on Oct 1, 2015 17:22:08 GMT 1
What did we expect?
As venceremos says lets hope Carneiro takes action against Chelsea, and wins.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 20:10:05 GMT 1
Constructive dismissal ,open and shut case
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 20:35:00 GMT 1
The issue here is whether he made discriminatory comments about her and this could not be proved. Was it unreasonable to go off on one against the doctor for treating Hazard? Of course it was but that was not the case in point.
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Post by jamo on Oct 1, 2015 20:38:39 GMT 1
Constructive dismissal ,open and shut case Nonsense. Case closed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2015 21:13:20 GMT 1
Constructive dismissal ,open and shut case Nonsense. Case closed. o Let's see smart arse
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Post by jamo on Oct 1, 2015 21:52:09 GMT 1
Let's see indeed. You're wrong on here with a great regularity, this will be no different
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Post by shrewinjapan on Oct 2, 2015 8:32:43 GMT 1
Let's see indeed. You're wrong on here with a great regularity, this will be no different Certainly sounds like a constructive dismissal type case to me - she was unreasonably publicly humiliated by one of her bosses, then subjected to what was effectively non-procedural disciplinary demotion.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 2, 2015 10:02:18 GMT 1
Seems the FA's whatever-that-was-meant-to-be was worse than I thought - Dr Carneiro wasn't even a participant! Her professional reputation was undermined by an unqualified, egotistical whinger, she lost her job and the FA's attitude comes across as "put the kettle on love and the chaps will sort this out between us".
What is it with football organisations that makes them such a collection of tosspots and dinosaurs?
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Post by Nath on Oct 2, 2015 11:12:23 GMT 1
It appears that women still don't have a place in football. The FA have failed to protect her and have let themselves down.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Oct 2, 2015 11:50:56 GMT 1
I have no idea if he did or didn't make derogatory remarks to her at the time, but his post-match comments to the media were aimed toward both her and her male counterpart, so I can't see how they could be construed as sexist. However, his comments suggesting that the medical staff should have put aside their professional responsibilities and should not have treated the "injured" player for football reasons (i.e. because it caused them to be at a numerical disadvantage) seem reckless and an endangerment to player welfare, not too mention ridiculous. Clearly, if he had cause to censure anybody, it was the player for going down injured when he wasn't and at a time when the team most needed him.
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Post by venceremos on Oct 2, 2015 12:15:40 GMT 1
I have no idea if he did or didn't make derogatory remarks to her at the time He did apparently, in Portuguese. The FA brought in a linguist and presumably decided what he said was acceptable, although it wasn't repeatable on Radio 4 this morning! All they alluded to was that they could certainly be construed as sexist - make of that what you will!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 13:39:29 GMT 1
He supposedly exclaimed 'filha da puta' when she ran on. Literal meaning of which is daughter of a Whore. Not necessarily a sexist comment though, just clearly aimed at her because he used filha rather than the masculine filho
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 2, 2015 15:23:16 GMT 1
I suspect he would have treated the person the same whether male or female. If he thinks that someone is a hindrances then he'll move them on. Whether that's a coach, a player or someone from the medical staff. That's how football tends to work. So I don't buy into this sexist malarkey.
What I do think is wrong though is that the FA haven't pulled him up on this because of something that our man in Japan touched on. The medical staffs one and only thought is the health of the playing staff. That's what they are there for. Above all else. The medical team entered the field of play because I gather they genuinely thought the Chelsea lad was hurt and needed attention. To then see a clubs medial staff treated this way because of that is just wrong. Someone should pull him aside and say player safety is more important then whether you're lads are going to have to deal with playing with just nine for a second or two.
The medial staff weren't to blame for their predicament, the other lads who had been red carded are at fault.
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Post by kuffdam72 on Oct 2, 2015 16:18:03 GMT 1
Who cares it's not as if she's lost a minimum wage job.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 16:43:26 GMT 1
I suspect he would have treated the person the same whether male or female. If he thinks that someone is a hindrances then he'll move them on. Whether that's a coach, a player or someone from the medical staff. That's how football tends to work. So I don't buy into this sexist malarkey. Well I suppose it depends on how you define this sexism malarkey. It's worth pointing out that Jon Fern the physio involved wasn't excluded from the bench or team meetings.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 2, 2015 17:06:14 GMT 1
I suspect he would have treated the person the same whether male or female. If he thinks that someone is a hindrances then he'll move them on. Whether that's a coach, a player or someone from the medical staff. That's how football tends to work. So I don't buy into this sexist malarkey. Well I suppose it depends on how you define this sexism malarkey. Well yes. Obviously.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 17:09:56 GMT 1
Well I suppose it depends on how you define this sexism malarkey. Well yes. Obviously. Yes, and Jon Fearn wasn't relegated from the bench or excluded from team meetings. Therefore claims of sexism are valid.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 2, 2015 17:28:31 GMT 1
Yes, and Jon Fearn wasn't relegated from the bench or excluded from team meetings. Therefore claims of sexism are valid. From what I have read, I disagree. I think she has been treated unfairly but I do not believe her sex is a factor in that.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 17:51:02 GMT 1
Yes, and Jon Fearn wasn't relegated from the bench or excluded from team meetings. Therefore claims of sexism are valid. From what I have read, I disagree. I think she has been treated unfairly but I do not believe her sex is a factor in that. As already pointed out up thread both Fearn and Carneiro were criticised by Mourinho, but only one was excluded. Obviously she has been treated unfairly, but why? To dismiss sexism without the full facts or a full and proper investigation (Carneiro wasn't asked to give her account at the FA hearing) doesn't do the FA or equality in this country an favours and maintains the cosy status quo.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 2, 2015 18:04:59 GMT 1
From what I have read, I disagree. I think she has been treated unfairly but I do not believe her sex is a factor in that. As already pointed out up thread both Fearn and Carneiro were criticised by Mourinho, but only one was excluded. Obviously she has been treated unfairly, but why? To dismiss sexism without the full facts or a full and proper investigation (Carneiro wasn't asked to give her account at the FA hearing) doesn't do the FA or equality in this country an favours and maintains the cosy status quo. Yeah, as I have already pointed out, I do not think this has anything to do with her sex. So I guess we can just leave the discussion there. Just repeating what has already been said isn't going to change my mind now is it. I have followed the story and that's how I see it, I do not believe her sex is a factor.
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Post by stfcfan87 on Oct 2, 2015 20:55:06 GMT 1
As already pointed out up thread both Fearn and Carneiro were criticised by Mourinho, but only one was excluded. Obviously she has been treated unfairly, but why? To dismiss sexism without the full facts or a full and proper investigation (Carneiro wasn't asked to give her account at the FA hearing) doesn't do the FA or equality in this country an favours and maintains the cosy status quo. Yeah, as I have already pointed out, I do not think this has anything to do with her sex. So I guess we can just leave the discussion there. Just repeating what has already been said isn't going to change my mind now is it. I have followed the story and that's how I see it, I do not believe her sex is a factor. Still dont see how its not constructive dismissal
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Post by venceremos on Oct 2, 2015 21:24:00 GMT 1
Yeah, as I have already pointed out, I do not think this has anything to do with her sex. So I guess we can just leave the discussion there. Just repeating what has already been said isn't going to change my mind now is it. I have followed the story and that's how I see it, I do not believe her sex is a factor. Still dont see how its not constructive dismissal It might be, depending on whether Carneiro brings and wins an action against Chelsea.
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Post by Nath on Oct 2, 2015 21:49:08 GMT 1
It is hard enough for women to enter the game of football as it is. She was excellent at her job but had to deal with continual sexist chants and replays. She couldn't go on the pitch without a meme being created about how 'fit' or 'hot' she was. The FA have failed to protect her, irrelevant of her income. Football is a sexist sport and I believe her gender is a factor in this.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2015 23:09:27 GMT 1
What I cannot understand is this. She was employed by the "club " as team Doctor with, no doubt , the remit to look after the players, which she was obviously doing when she went onto the pitch . Hazard was injured ? and so on she went . Now, Hazard no doubt is worth a fair few quid to Chelsea and the club would be more than a little aggrieved if one of their prize assets didn't get the attention he asked for .This applies to all Chelsea's players and I doubt very much if any team doctor has to ask the Manager whether they should enter the field of play to treat a player when called upon. I find " Chelsea " the club somewhat lacking in their support for the Doctor who, after all, they have employed . She is as much an employee of Chelsea as Mourinho . Unless I am very much mistaken the silence from the club is deafening . Which I find pitiful . Perhaps someone needs to grab hold of Mourinho and put him firmly in his place , perhaps tell him not to be such a t**t. Will it happen , no, of course not . The club is in the wrong , Mourinho is in the wrong and the FA have, as per usual fudged the issue . I hope she takes out a private action against Chelsea for constructive dismissal . That is the whole point really , Mourinho has failed her but above all the club have acted disgracefully in allowing this to happen . The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Mourinho sees himself as bigger than the club . Recent Chelsea performances suggest that it could all end in tears . Personally , I do hope so .
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 7:21:25 GMT 1
Yeah, as I have already pointed out, I do not think this has anything to do with her sex. So I guess we can just leave the discussion there. Just repeating what has already been said isn't going to change my mind now is it. I have followed the story and that's how I see it, I do not believe her sex is a factor. Still dont see how its not constructive dismissal It might well be, that's just the effect, the cause will be the club's conduct. Bullying for example.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Oct 3, 2015 10:38:08 GMT 1
What I cannot understand is this. She was employed by the "club " as team Doctor with, no doubt , the remit to look after the players, which she was obviously doing when she went onto the pitch . Hazard was injured ? and so on she went . Now, Hazard no doubt is worth a fair few quid to Chelsea and the club would be more than a little aggrieved if one of their prize assets didn't get the attention he asked for .This applies to all Chelsea's players and I doubt very much if any team doctor has to ask the Manager whether they should enter the field of play to treat a player when called upon. I find " Chelsea " the club somewhat lacking in their support for the Doctor who, after all, they have employed . She is as much an employee of Chelsea as Mourinho . Unless I am very much mistaken the silence from the club is deafening . Which I find pitiful . Perhaps someone needs to grab hold of Mourinho and put him firmly in his place , perhaps tell him not to be such a t**t. Will it happen , no, of course not . The club is in the wrong , Mourinho is in the wrong and the FA have, as per usual fudged the issue . I hope she takes out a private action against Chelsea for constructive dismissal . That is the whole point really , Mourinho has failed her but above all the club have acted disgracefully in allowing this to happen . The only conclusion I can draw from this is that Mourinho sees himself as bigger than the club . Recent Chelsea performances suggest that it could all end in tears . Personally , I do hope so . Yep. She and the other chap were simply doing what they are supposed to do. The ref called them on and so they went on. Mourinho and Chelsea should have the book thrown at them and should be warned on their future conduct. You simply shouldn't be allowed to treat the medical staff like that. There should be no doubt in their minds that they can enter the field of play when called on by the ref (who is close to the player injured). She should chase it up big time. Hope she does and I hope she wins. She has effectively been sacked for doing her job. By the by, about the FA. I think the only thing they have looked into so far is the abuse that Mourinho gave the medical staff at the time. They were acting on a complaint made by a member of public. I think that is all they have looked into so far. I don't they have looked at the way the staff were treated afterwards.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 18:17:46 GMT 1
Looks like this is going to cost Chelsea and add to Joses nightmare after all
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