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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 16:10:26 GMT 1
Corbyn will attract voters as he will give Labour an Identity and focus which they have been lacking since the 'New Labour' movement.
Many people like me couldn't bring themselves to vote labour we didn't understand who the party were and Labour were unwilling to tell us. I emailed Labour during the election regarding spousal visa regulations , whilst I know this isn't a vote winning issue the response angered me and put me off voting Labour entirely :
This nameless response ignored by issue entirely and instead patronizingly assumed it could win my vote with pointless rhetoric. This encapsulated what was wrong with Miliband Labour. I would prefer someone who is less left than Corbyn, but as thing stand he is the only candidate which seems to understand that Labour needs to be more than rhetoric churning machine. Why would you contact the Labour Party about spousal visa regulations?
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Post by jiayou salop on Aug 14, 2015 16:32:02 GMT 1
I run up a business here in China, I would like to move back to the U.K but current goverment policy makes it very difficult to bring my wife with me. I would need to prove I earn above a financial thesehold, which I do but being self employed I can't provide the nessisary documentation.
The Lib Dems and the greens both stated that they would relax some regulations on spousal visas, and I was hoping labour would offer the same.
Anyway my point wasn't really about spousal visas, more on how there was a general mood that labour wouldn't nail there colours to the mast on anything on the risk of upsetting someboby and therefore just offered nothing.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 14, 2015 16:47:36 GMT 1
Anyway my point wasn't really about spousal visas, more on how there was a general mood that labour wouldn't nail there colours to the mast on anything on the risk of upsetting someboby and therefore just offered nothing. Yeh I got that buddy, it was just the visa but that confused me. And I agree with your point, but I think that's society all over, not just the Labour Party.
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Post by venceremos on Aug 14, 2015 17:16:22 GMT 1
Rather than spend all their time saying how bad Corbyn will be for Labour I would like to know quite what it is New Labour and the Blairites think their new policies should be and why they are needed Corbyn has been brave enough to state his policies for members to judge but I'm honestly not clear what the other candidates propose to do if they win There's a decent summary of all four candidates' proposals on the BBC website. I don't think it's a question of bravery. Corbyn's rise has been the big story and the only one the media is now interested in. I don't think it's the fault of the other candidates if their policy ideas go unreported. Some will say they're all the same anyway (although they're not actually) but then it's a party leadership election, not an election between parties, so you wouldn't normally expect a huge divergence in views. Can't blame anyone for not knowing what other candidates offer. It's become a silly season story for the media and it's been reduced to left v right, old v new, Corbyn v the rest. Labour's plan to democratise the leadership election process was noble but has backfired. Not because Corbyn might win but because a party leadership election is only interesting to outsiders if there are headline policy differences or, best of all, personality clashes to exploit. By taking the debate to the media, Labour left themselves open to this and the real debate's been buried in the everybody against Corbyn froth and nonsense. Whether Corbyn wins or not, I bet they won't do it like this next time - and I bet the Tories won't rush to follow the experiment in a couple of years when the real Cameron succession battle kicks off. Live and learn.
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Post by venceremos on Aug 14, 2015 17:20:40 GMT 1
The irony of all this being that Corbyn is actually far closer to new labour than most realise. He's far more social democrat than socialist but media and voters, both left and right leaning are portraying him as a kind of Che Guevara mach 2. Easy to do now that Gideon and co have shifted the centre so far right even a moderate lefty seems extreme by today's standards. A cynic might suggest that Corbyn is being set up as an anti-establishment figure to try and rally the youth and labour voters lost to UKIP whilst actually being relatively malleable by the Blairite faction should he win. Tony and co's public criticism of Corbyn, along with their refusal to even acknowledge let alone endorse, anyone else is almost pushing the disaffected towards JC by default. There's shades of the Greek referendum about this, in the way that many people voted no purely out of spite against the incessant media campaign for yes. Strikes me that Tone and co have learned this lesson well. Smug tories paying to vote for Corbyn is adding fuel to the fire. It never ceases to amaze me how people never seem to consider how quickly things change in politics. Right now Corbyn looks unelectable to many against the slick Cameron and Osborne. Give it another 6 months of indecision on Calais and a couple more quarters of rising unemployment and benefit cuts biting and they start to look like a couple of hapless, fare dodging toffs who can't remember which club they support, fish in a barrel for socialist firebrand and man of the people Corbyn. Call it the Sturgeon-Clegg effect. Can't see Yvette Cooper or Andy Burnham being as well placed to cash in. Good post, although I don't think Ukip garnered much of the youth vote, did they? A lot of people think they know what will happen but nobody really does. What we do know is that, whoever leads Labour into the next election, they won't be going in against Cameron. The snake oil salesman will be off to the most comfortable of political retirements by then and will have been a lame duck for a long time before.
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Post by blazey on Aug 14, 2015 18:09:02 GMT 1
This to shows why Labour lose so many elections. Lots of non Labour supporters don't like the tactics Labour regularly use in attacking their opponents rather that trying to get elected on their policies. You have to be slightly cleverly in the way you put your opponents down. Let's face it the Conservative Party won the last election by saying a vote for anyone else in England was a vote for the SNP running the country. They didn't outwardly attack the Labour Party. Sorry, you're quite right. Of course, the Tories would never dream of personal attacks on their political opponents... www.politicshome.com/foreign-and-defence/articles/story/michael-fallon-miliband-will-stab-uk-back-over-trident
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Post by frankwellshrews on Aug 14, 2015 18:37:04 GMT 1
The Tories mainly have their cronies in the right wing press do their character assassinations for them.
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 14, 2015 21:23:22 GMT 1
If only the Blairites had spent as half as much energy in the last five years attacking Cameron and his bunch of spivs as they have Corbyn over the last week, how different the election result in May could have been. This to shows why Labour lose so many elections. Lots of non Labour supporters don't like the tactics Labour regularly use in attacking their opponents rather that trying to get elected on their policies. The Tories are just as guilty of that, probably more so.
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 14, 2015 22:17:52 GMT 1
Perhaps the Labour Party should put their money where there mouth is and commission a poll. Not just for Labour members but for the general public. Either: If Jeremy Corbyn was leader of the Labour party, would you be more likely or less likely to vote Labour. Or... Which of the 4 candidates would make you more likely to vote Labour if they became Labour Leader. The results, if they concurred with the Labour Hierarchy's views, may persuade Jezza to withdraw, if it was clear he would be a disaster for the party, leaving the other three luminaries to slug it out. After all, Yvette Cooper is going to "change the World". Well, well, well... www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/aug/14/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leadership-most-popular-candidate-voters-all-parties
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Post by sussexshrew on Aug 14, 2015 23:24:16 GMT 1
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 15, 2015 0:33:41 GMT 1
I've had the leaflets through the door today from Yvette Cooper and Andy Burnham (I think Liz Kendall has given in) and then I have had an email linking to this piece by Corbyn:
www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/together-we-can-change-politicsCorbyn is speaking a completely different language to Cooper and Burnham.
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Post by jamo on Aug 15, 2015 7:25:38 GMT 1
Can someone remind this lot that the Nags Beer garden is still open, despite adverse weather conditions, and that they can continue clinking glasses with each other and reliving their marxist, largely drug addled adolescent years there and not here. I genuinely believe 90% of the people who have so far voted for Corbyn with honorable intentions are well known to this board. Has anyone voted for corbyn yet? The ballot papers only went out today? Perhaps the addling of the brain via the pharmaceutical route is not strictly confined to the beer gardens of Shrewsbury
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Post by neilsalop on Aug 21, 2015 10:40:18 GMT 1
You can tell the football season is back, I had to look for this on page 2.
Anyway, back to the point.
How many people on here are voting in the Labour leadership election and who are you voting for?
I know there are a few Tory bell-ends that have registered to vote and will be voting for Corbyn, because they think that he will make Labour unelectable, but they're Tories, so obviously not very clever.
IMO Corbyn could be well be the best thing to happen to the Labour party in my lifetime. The 'loony left' tag that the tabloids are giving him is all bull. The guy is a social-democrat with ethics and morals, yet they are comparing him to Castro and Brezhnev. Granted he is more left wing than Blair, but surely that is what is needed, rather than a watered down Tory with his nose the same trough.
I admit that Corbyn isn't ideal, but compared to Burnham, Kendall and Mrs Balls he is pretty bloody close.
Has anyone really looked at the ideas being forward by the contenders? Only Corbyn is bringing new things to the table and although they might not all be immediately workable, they are for the most part popular with most people that don't work in the city or for Murdoch, ie: renationalising the railways and the energy companies, scr@pping tuition fees and closing tax loopholes.
Also what are peoples thoughts on the Deputy Leadership? I'd be inclined to go for Caroline Flint as she's the only one of the women not to have been through Oxbridge or Tom Watson.
eta I haven't registered to vote, as I support the Green party and wouldn't give my hard earned money to any other political party. If Corbyn wins he might drag me back to the Labour party, but a lot depends on whether the PLP allow him to be a real leader.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 11:39:02 GMT 1
I will be voting and I will be voting for Corbyn.
The other options make me wretch. I don't think Corbyn will get us elected but I think he has more chance with a clean slate than the other clones!
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Post by highfield on Aug 21, 2015 13:32:32 GMT 1
I think you hit the nail on the head with "I don't think Corbyn will get us elected". I can only see Labour losing votes at the next local elections and him being replaced by a more moderate leader, although I doubt that will be any of the three other candidates currently standing.
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Post by jamo on Aug 21, 2015 16:03:06 GMT 1
I will be voting and I will be voting for Corbyn. The other options make me wretch. I don't think Corbyn will get us elected but I think he has more chance with a clean slate than the other clones! This ^
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 21, 2015 22:41:45 GMT 1
I've voted for Corbyn.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 21, 2015 22:43:18 GMT 1
Diane Flint hasn't been through Tom Watson? Then I read it again.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2015 23:54:41 GMT 1
I have already voted for Corbyn and Tom Watson . Will do well these two, liven things up a bit . That is unless certain spineless t**ts get their way and have the whole process declared null and void , but I don't think that will happen .
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Post by SeanBroseley on Aug 22, 2015 0:35:50 GMT 1
If Corbyn wins - and I still doubt that he will - then he won't get to the 2020 election. From day 1 the parliamentary Labour Party will disobey and ignore him. At PMQs the SNP will outnumber Labour members on the opposition backbenches and the shadow cabinet will be used to harass the policy formulation process that he wants to conduct.
If he won I think there would be a legal challenge to the vote too.
In the end the rules for the leadership election will be changed and he will be replaced by someone supported by Progress - the managerial wing of the party which sees itself as the guardian of Labour values but is in fact a real threat to the Labour Party as a national organisation outside of parliament.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 6:17:00 GMT 1
I love democracy me....
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Post by northwestman on Aug 22, 2015 9:17:01 GMT 1
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Post by davycrockett on Aug 22, 2015 9:31:37 GMT 1
Deed is done
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Post by northwestman on Aug 22, 2015 10:00:51 GMT 1
One girl likened the TV friendly, puppet-faced politicians as being like middle aged men who enter teen chat rooms pretending to be teens, but who are exposed when they start to speak about things they don't know about. Yes. Like Blair claiming that as a young man he used to sit in the Gallowgate end of Newcastle's ground to watch games when that end was completely terraced, or Cameron not knowing his West Ham from his Aston Villa. Cameron's misunderstanding as to what is meant by 'lol' when sending text messages to the fragrant Rebecca Brookes is another example.
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Post by shrewsace on Aug 22, 2015 10:05:32 GMT 1
Has anyone seen Louise Mensch make an utter t**t of herself trying to smear Corbyn on Twitter?
It's pure gold.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 11:02:18 GMT 1
Has anyone seen Louise Mensch make an utter t**t of herself trying to smear Corbyn on Twitter? It's pure gold. The foul stench which is Louise Mensch joined my list of all time hateful political peices of s**te alongside Thatcher and Shirley Porter . Poor old Shirley , according to her she hasn't got a pot to p**s in . Shrewsace , as I don't access Twitter please be so kind as to provide a brief summary of the pearls of wisdom which dripped from her lips. I would be very grateful owd lad .
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 11:22:13 GMT 1
Has anyone seen Louise Mensch make an utter t**t of herself trying to smear Corbyn on Twitter? It's pure gold. Yeah, saw that. On the one hand it's hilarious, on the other hand I'm embarrassed for her.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 13:43:24 GMT 1
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Post by champagneprince on Aug 22, 2015 14:31:58 GMT 1
Celebrity Big Brother or The Jungle are surely her best career options at present.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2015 14:43:59 GMT 1
Thank you Matron, much appreciated
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