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Post by northwestman on Jun 30, 2015 21:15:08 GMT 1
I am sure that most on here will be less than happy to go into the new season with just Vernon, Collins, Barnett and the untried Anderson as our strike force.
At least one more striker is needed (the fox in the box) and if Vernon gets paid off I'd suggest we'd need another, even if he's only a loan signing.
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Post by Liam on Jun 30, 2015 21:25:03 GMT 1
I'd be surprised if Vernon gets paid off. The idea that he will be seems to have become some sort of accepted truism purely because a number of people on here have repeatedly suggested that he should be. This has caused it to be discussed so often that it's put the idea in people's heads and therefore caused the suggestion that he will be paid off to reach "rumour" status, even though there's been absolutely no inclination from within the club that this is actually the case.
In reality, money is clearly tight, we've already been told we're nearing the wage cap, and we're short of strikers as it is, and for all of those reasons he's more likely to stay than go.
I was nevertheless encouraged by Mellon's statement today that he wants a nippy striker to play off the target men and make runs in behind the opposition's back-line. That's exactly what the squad needs.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 30, 2015 21:45:45 GMT 1
There was absolutely no indication from within the Club that Gayle was to be paid off. Just the circumstantial evidence that he wasn't spotted in training.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 30, 2015 21:51:43 GMT 1
I'd be surprised if Vernon gets paid off. The idea that he will be seems to have become some sort of accepted truism purely because a number of people on here have repeatedly suggested that he should be. This has caused it to be discussed so often that it's put the idea in people's heads and therefore caused the suggestion that he will be paid off to reach "rumour" status, even though there's been absolutely no inclination from within the club that this is actually the case. In reality, money is clearly tight, we've already been told we're nearing the wage cap, and we're short of strikers as it is, and for all of those reasons he's more likely to stay than go. I was nevertheless encouraged by Mellon's statement today that he wants a nippy striker to play off the target men and make runs in behind the opposition's back-line. That's exactly what the squad needs. So what you are saying is that we should stick with a striker who towards the end of last season was only 5th choice and only got 3 or 4 games in midfield before being benched for the rest of the season, whilst we let go 2 strikers who were both above him in the pecking order? Purely because he's under contact and they are not?
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Post by CopthorneShrew on Jun 30, 2015 21:53:29 GMT 1
I would be very surprised to see Vernon leave the club this summer. Admittedly he didn't hit the standards we initially expected from him last year but he is still a very good centre forward. An intelligent forward with excellent technique who can link up play. Very useful in both boxes too. No doubt he will get a chance at some point this season and I'm certain he has the talent and the appetite to take it. For me there are other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement.
Keep for me.
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Post by northwestman on Jun 30, 2015 22:11:13 GMT 1
I would be very surprised to see Vernon leave the club this summer. Admittedly he didn't hit the standards we initially expected from him last year but he is still a very good centre forward. An intelligent forward with excellent technique who can link up play. Very useful in both boxes too. No doubt he will get a chance at some point this season and I'm certain he has the talent and the appetite to take it. For me there are other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement. Keep for me. So who are the other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement in your estimation? And I'm at a loss to understand what you mean by saying that Vernon is 'very useful in both boxes'.
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Post by Liam on Jun 30, 2015 22:29:50 GMT 1
I'd be surprised if Vernon gets paid off. The idea that he will be seems to have become some sort of accepted truism purely because a number of people on here have repeatedly suggested that he should be. This has caused it to be discussed so often that it's put the idea in people's heads and therefore caused the suggestion that he will be paid off to reach "rumour" status, even though there's been absolutely no inclination from within the club that this is actually the case. In reality, money is clearly tight, we've already been told we're nearing the wage cap, and we're short of strikers as it is, and for all of those reasons he's more likely to stay than go. I was nevertheless encouraged by Mellon's statement today that he wants a nippy striker to play off the target men and make runs in behind the opposition's back-line. That's exactly what the squad needs. So what you are saying is that we should stick with a striker who towards the end of last season was only 5th choice and only got 3 or 4 games in midfield before being benched for the rest of the season, whilst we let go 2 strikers who were both above him in the pecking order? Purely because he's under contact and they are not? Yes. He is under contract. They were not. Obviously it's not ideal, but that's how contract law works. We can't just sack Vernon without compensation for no reason, and quite right too. Mellon has already said that his budget is basically spent and that's why he can't offer more to Mangan and JLAA. Turning around and spending a big lump sum of the remaining wage budget on paying off our third-choice striker therefore seems like a silly thing to do given that we only have 4 strikers and one is a kid who's never made a first team start. We'd be better off conserving any money that is left and putting it towards the contract of a new signing. Also, Vernon's first season was far from spectacular, but he isn't a donkey and he's clearly a good professional, so it's not like being lumbered with him is some sort of disaster. The only exception to this would be if someone was to come along and offer to take over his contract, which seems unlikely given his age and recent scoring record.
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Post by markglasgow on Jun 30, 2015 22:30:47 GMT 1
The 'Vernon Scenario' came about by folks simply putting two and two together.
I've also bought into this deduction simply because if Cameron Gayle isn't deemed good enough for L1 then surely Vernon's ability to succeed at that level must also be questioned by MM.
The match at Bury during the run in was as vital as they came. Six strikers were named in the squad. Only one of these didn't get game time. To me Vernon was always behind Collins, JLAA & Mangan in the pecking order. MM's need to bring in two more strikers in Mandron & Barnett just demonstrated further he wasn't happy with some elements of his strike force.
I personally will be very surprised if Vernon is retained. He added little to our squad in L2, not sure what he'll offer once we step up.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Jun 30, 2015 22:32:30 GMT 1
I would be very surprised to see Vernon leave the club this summer. Admittedly he didn't hit the standards we initially expected from him last year but he is still a very good centre forward. An intelligent forward with excellent technique who can link up play. Very useful in both boxes too. No doubt he will get a chance at some point this season and I'm certain he has the talent and the appetite to take it. For me there are other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement. Keep for me. So who are the other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement in your estimation? And I'm at a loss to understand what you mean by saying that Vernon is 'very useful in both boxes'. North west man . What he means I think is that vernon comes back to defend corners and is basically an extra defender when needed, and also can be very effective in the attacking box . I think vernon could be useful this season.collins should have scored 30+ easily last season with all the chances he missed . Whereas vernon would probably put those away more often than not .
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Post by JohnG on Jun 30, 2015 22:43:39 GMT 1
The 'Vernon Scenario' came about by folks simply putting two and two together. I've also bought into this deduction simply because if Cameron Gayle isn't deemed good enough for L1 then surely Vernon's ability to succeed at that level must also be questioned by MM. The match at Bury during the run in was as vital as they came. Six strikers were named in the squad. Only one of these didn't get game time. To me Vernon was always behind Collins, JLAA & Mangan in the pecking order. MM's need to bring in two more strikers in Mandron & Barnett just demonstrated further he wasn't happy with some elements of his strike force. I personally will be very surprised if Vernon is retained. He added little to our squad in L2, not sure what he'll offer once we step up. Vernon was ready to come against bury but then southern got injured and limped off. The whole game plan seemed to change then and Vernon wasn't brought on. It sounds like I'm in the minority but I like the look of Vernon and still think we have a decent player. I don't understand the witch-hunt to get rid of him!! Sent from my D5503 using proboards
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Post by northwestman on Jun 30, 2015 22:47:19 GMT 1
I must admit I'm at a total loss to understand why we are up to budget whereas Bury with average crowds of 3,774 shell out money for the likes of Pope, Clarke etc and at present have six strikers on their books.
Sleight of hand somewhere?
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Post by CopthorneShrew on Jun 30, 2015 22:59:49 GMT 1
I would be very surprised to see Vernon leave the club this summer. Admittedly he didn't hit the standards we initially expected from him last year but he is still a very good centre forward. An intelligent forward with excellent technique who can link up play. Very useful in both boxes too. No doubt he will get a chance at some point this season and I'm certain he has the talent and the appetite to take it. For me there are other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement. Keep for me. So who are the other players ahead of him who could be offered an early settlement in your estimation? And I'm at a loss to understand what you mean by saying that Vernon is 'very useful in both boxes'. Well one has gone today & for me Demetriou & Caton as well as possibly Halstead. I would also suggest the signing of McKnight could have been avoided if we were that desperate for another striker. From a footballing point of view I see no problem in having Vernon, Collins, Barnett, a new signing (or Mangan) & Anderson as the forward options - can always tinker in January. 'Very useful in both boxes' means he is capable of being an extra defender for set pieces & a threat in the opposition box with his head. I seem to recall him being called the 'best finisher at the club' which admittedly hasn't been proven on Saturday afternoons but must have some substance. I fully appreciate his goal record this season is poor but I'm not sure you can say he has missed a hatful of chances like Akpa Akpro. Don't get me wrong if someone came in and took over his contract I would happily agree to it but this guy is no mug - he can contribute & the above players in my opinion, are more realistically to be moved on.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Jun 30, 2015 23:03:31 GMT 1
The thing I find quite difficult to swallow is we're not signing Mangan, but we're looking for a striker like...Mangan...
We might not have the budget to sign Mangan, but then we won't have the budget to sign his replacement either.
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Post by TheFoz on Jun 30, 2015 23:26:26 GMT 1
The thing I find quite difficult to swallow is we're not signing Mangan, but we're looking for a striker like...Mangan... We might not have the budget to sign Mangan, but then we won't have the budget to sign his replacement either. Seems a bit strange to me, I think Mellon is playing a game but I can't figure it out. Vernon needs a pacy striker up front with him and that just isn't going to happen with Collins being a guaranteed starter. It'd be best for all parties if Vernon left, he's not going to get the game time here and we need to free up wages. Up front is the only place I'm worried about now. Collins,Barnett,Mangan,Anderson plus a new striker with Vernon and Akpa-Akpros wage looks good enough. Whatever our forward line ends up as it'll will be better than Gornell,Doble,Bradshaw and Morgan.
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Post by markglasgow on Jun 30, 2015 23:31:28 GMT 1
MM seemed to have a pop at his good friend Flitcroft in a recent interview. He branded clubs who spend beyond their means cheats. Bury seem to have 'gone for it' again this season. Just who is doing the bean counting at that club?? I've been told that Clarke was on 8K at Wolves. Even if he has taken a 50% pay cut (to go to one of the most glamourous teams in the league )then his contract will be worth £625K. Add Pope to the mix, who was offered 'too much money to turn down' also on a three year deal. If being tied to big money three year deals in worrying enough then they have a five year millstone with the Carrington contract. Flitcroft says he spent 10 days with the chairman to make sure his budget is below the magic 60% of turnover. Bury must be expecting a huge influx of supporters this season. It simply just doesn't add up. Tick Tock...
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Post by shrewblue on Jul 1, 2015 8:37:18 GMT 1
With MM's desire to be able to change tactics and have more options highlighted by the addition of Brown and Whalley for starters, Vernon may well get more opportunities this year and prove his worth to the doubters. As far as another striker being added I think that is a given and if not Mangan it will be someone else who can do the job just as well or better and you never know it could even be mangan and a n other
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Post by northwestman on Jul 1, 2015 20:12:57 GMT 1
AJ Leitch Smith anyone?
Paid up by Yeovil and currently training with Port Vale.
Always impressed me when we played Crewe.
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Post by 18stfc86 on Jul 1, 2015 21:59:15 GMT 1
AJ Leitch Smith anyone? Paid up by Yeovil and currently training with Port Vale. Always impressed me when we played Crewe. No thanks, Crewe fans really don't rate him and would love Vale to sign him! I can only think that the reason Mellon isn't resigning Mangan is maybe due to his injury problems over the last couple of years? I do have faith that Mellon will find us the right strike partner for Collins/Barnett and think that he's waiting for pre season friendlies to begin to test out some trialists.
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Post by siabod on Jul 1, 2015 22:12:24 GMT 1
I must admit I'm at a total loss to understand why we are up to budget whereas Bury with average crowds of 3,774 shell out money for the likes of Pope, Clarke etc and at present have six strikers on their books. Sleight of hand somewhere? And some large high interest loans I believe.
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Post by siabod on Jul 1, 2015 22:21:43 GMT 1
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Post by SouthStandShrew on Jul 1, 2015 22:31:10 GMT 1
Wrexham fans seem to think Mangan on way there?!
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Post by northwestman on Jul 1, 2015 22:58:30 GMT 1
Wrexham fans seem to think Mangan on way there?! Am amazed if Wrexham can afford his wage demands and we can't!
Makes me think that MM is perhaps more concerned about Mangan's injury record.
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Post by ipswichshrews on Jul 2, 2015 11:16:53 GMT 1
AJ Leitch Smith anyone? Paid up by Yeovil and currently training with Port Vale. Always impressed me when we played Crewe. would think the striker would be of this level - lower end of league 1, higher - mid level of league 2 or someone in Scotland to fit into the budget. Or maybe a unknown who's been with MM at previous clubs.....Love to see the list of 25 strikers given by MM to MW; struggling to think of 10 strikers nevermind 25! On a side note re: Mangan, i asked the Shropshire Star reporter for Shrewsbury Tim Nash on Twitter yesterday what he felt was MM's priority and he got the sense it was to get a new striker as the issue with Mangan is his fitness and the amount of games we would get out of him. So unless Mangan accepts to offer made by the club then I doubt he'll re-sign.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 2, 2015 11:34:47 GMT 1
AJ Leitch Smith anyone? Paid up by Yeovil and currently training with Port Vale. Always impressed me when we played Crewe. would think the striker would be of this level - lower end of league 1, higher - mid level of league 2 or someone in Scotland to fit into the budget. Or maybe a unknown who's been with MM at previous clubs.....Love to see the list of 25 strikers given by MM to MW; struggling to think of 10 strikers nevermind 25! On a side note re: Mangan, i asked the Shropshire Star reporter for Shrewsbury Tim Nash on Twitter yesterday what he felt was MM's priority and he got the sense it was to get a new striker as the issue with Mangan is his fitness and the amount of games we would get out of him. So unless Mangan accepts to offer made by the club then I doubt he'll re-sign. Yes, I'm already on record as thinking that it's possibly Mangan's fitness level that is more of an issue.
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Post by sussexshrew on Jul 2, 2015 13:55:11 GMT 1
On the "Grant, Mangan, JLAA" thread, I said:
"Really looking forward to seeing a league 2 or conference striker coming in with a 1 goal in 5 match ratio, (1 in 8, last season)...while we are told that he is going to turn his career round and be a great success with us in league 1.
No he won't... he'll end up on the bench by November as we get a succession of loanees... and Mangan (if he is fit) will get 18 plus for another side."
AJ Leitch-Smith fits the profile perfectly with his 1 goal in 5 ratio. Only last season he didn't even manage 1 goal in 8... it was 1 in 16!
I'd rather have a 90% fit Mangan in the squad any day.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 2, 2015 14:06:42 GMT 1
Anyone got any source re the Mangan to Wrexham rumour?
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Post by NelsonShrew on Jul 2, 2015 14:16:10 GMT 1
Ex Wrexham, so sounds plausible
Would get a L2 Club tho surely?
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Post by northwestman on Jul 2, 2015 14:22:53 GMT 1
Ex Wrexham, so sounds plausible Would get a L2 Club tho surely? Depends on the length of contract they are offering I suppose. Maybe other Clubs are only prepared to offer a 1 year deal. Who knows?
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Post by NelsonShrew on Jul 2, 2015 15:19:19 GMT 1
True, given his injury record it would take a brave club to offer that length.
He was carrying a knock when we signed him wasn't he? Sure he was...
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