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Post by vanner on Jul 19, 2015 21:45:01 GMT 1
Good time for Bairstow and Taylor to score hundreds, surely time for one of them to come in?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2015 22:27:33 GMT 1
Blimey, that was bad. Don't see how Lyth, Ballance or Bell can keep their places really, but changing three of top four in one game is hardly ideal either Anyway, thank god the tennis provided a brighter note yesterday. Bell I would drop and bring in Bairstow and move Root up to number 3. I would persevere with Lythe for now I think he will repay the faith!
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Post by shrewblue on Jul 19, 2015 22:54:27 GMT 1
Trouble is you cannot help but think that the selectors will once more stick their head in the sand and hope it comes good...forgetting how many times in recent tests the top order loses 3 or 4 wickets cheaply not just against OZ but NZ and W Indies too! Bell will be on his home ground so will probably be given the benefit of the doubt at Edgbaston perhaps he will be promoted to three I think the only fall guy might be Ballance and subject to the pitch on the day maybe we may finally pick a spinner Rashid that is of course... but don't hold your breath.
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Post by lenny on Jul 19, 2015 23:16:55 GMT 1
Ballance still averages 48 in test matches. Definitely has a future in the test side but IMO his technical flaws suggest it won't be at #3. He may also benefit from being given a break from the side, constantly getting out cheaply won't necessarily be the best for him - but then getting the chance to play against the best side in the world might well be a good experience.
Another thing - Josh Hazlewood really seems the real deal. 7 tests in and still with a bowling average below 20! Really seems like a baby McGrath although I hope to god he isn't. With him, Smith, Starc and Mitch Marsh, the Aussies have a very good core of young players coming through.
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Post by vanner on Jul 19, 2015 23:44:33 GMT 1
My team:
Cook Ali (**** it, he can't be any looser outside his off peg than Lyth is ATM) Bell Root Bairstow Stokes Buttler Rashid Broad Rushworth Jimmy
The team I think we'll pick:
Same 11.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jul 20, 2015 3:24:59 GMT 1
Surely there will be at least one change to the batting line up? You can't have the captain saying the word "unacceptable" and then do nothing - that's tacit acceptance. Also surely Wood will be rested - his pace was well down from the first test, he's young and inexperienced - no point in hammering him into the floor right at the start of his test career.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 8:02:27 GMT 1
Many people, including loads on Sky, are advocating moving Root up to number three. Are they forgetting that they tried this on the last tour of Australia with only limited success? Leave well (almost) alone!
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Post by northwestman on Jul 20, 2015 8:34:43 GMT 1
Blimey, that was bad. Don't see how Lyth, Ballance or Bell can keep their places really, but changing three of top four in one game is hardly ideal either Anyway, thank god the tennis provided a brighter note yesterday. Well, you never know. Bringing in KP and Trott worked in other Ashes series. Can't see how Bairstow and Taylor would do any worse than Ballance and Bell. Lyth needs dropping for Compton/Robson/Bell- Drummond/Mitchell? That shot that Ali played off the short ball when he was out for 0 suggests to me he needs replacing. His spin bowling isn't in the same league as Lyon, and now his batting is coming up short. Rushworth is a good call for Wood too. Definitely the in form bowler in the country. So 5 changes for me. But like others, I expect more or less the same team to turn up at Edgbaston, with probably only Bairstow coming in. In all honesty, I'm not over impressed with Buttler either at the moment, but it would be grossly unfair to replace him with Bairstow and yet leave Lyth, Ballance and Bell in the side.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 9:37:11 GMT 1
5 changes after one defeat? I'm glad you're not in charge!
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Post by lenny on Jul 20, 2015 10:13:11 GMT 1
Rushworth will never be called up. Just isn't the type of bowler the selectors want, even though he averages below 24 with the ball and is the leading CC wicket taker this season. Jack Brooks is in a similar situation. They want someone who has a bit of that x-factor - whether that's Foottitt's pace and swing or Finn's height and international experience. Craig Overton continues to impress - 33 wickets at 17 this season in division one and I'm sure he'll be in the side within the next couple of years.
Rashid may come in for Ali if he isn't fully fit, but Ali has hardly been the most worrying performer in our attack - the only one to have taken wickets every session, in fact, and quite possibly our leading wicket taker. Doubt Rashid would do any better.
Root didn't perform well at 3, but that was when he was an inferior player and no batsman played well in that series. He has since improved massively, and tends to be coming to the crease early anyway! He's batted well at three in the ODI side since being moved up and has the technique to bat there, unlike the present incumbent. It's a position for your best batsman, and while I understand the argument that he's doing well at 5 so why move him, he should be a natural. It worked with Smith, why not our answer to him? There aren't any other standout candidates, really. Ali is the only other player on this side who bats at 3 for his county, and I think he'd struggle.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 20, 2015 11:00:27 GMT 1
5 changes after one defeat? I'm glad you're not in charge! It's not so much the defeat Ant. It's the manner of the defeat. And our top 4 have failed against West Indies, New Zealand and now Australia. So it can't be said they haven't been given a good run. So you think a team of Cook, Mitchell/Compton, Taylor, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Rashid, Broad, Anderson and Footit/Finn (take the point about Rushworth as Onions has already suffered the same fate) wouldn't do as well?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 11:08:21 GMT 1
I don't care on the manner of the defeat - this is the same team that won its previous match handsomely. I'm not for wholesale changes after one result in a team sport regardless of the team and the sport. One or two changes maybe but let's stick to that please.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 20, 2015 11:12:45 GMT 1
The team only won it's previous match handsomely as a result of Haddin's dropping of Root. On such fine margins are games won and lost. I agree you could say the same about us dropping Smith when he was 50 though.
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Post by vanner on Jul 20, 2015 11:21:04 GMT 1
The team only won it's previous match handsomely as a result of Haddin's dropping of Root. On such fine margins are games won and lost. I agree you could say the same about us dropping Smith when he was 50 though. That's an incredibly harsh assessment of a comprehensive victory by England. 5 changes is slightly too many. Now I've chilled out a bit perhaps Finn for Wood and Bairstow for Ballance might be a better shout!
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Post by lenny on Jul 20, 2015 11:36:20 GMT 1
I think keeping the same team would be suicidal really. Wood is going to be a very good bowler for us over plenty of years but won't manage to regularly play back-to-back games and bowl effectively just yet - he's played just 28 first class games at his age. He had't played consecutive first class games until the NZ series and doing that gave him an injury, and he was down on pace and effectiveness in the last test. Think he needs to be given a mid-series breather.
My only qualm with moving Root up to 3 for this test - which will have to happen if Ballance is dropped for Bairstow - is that it's hardly ideal timing. The Aussies moved Smith up in the Windies, gave him a couple of tests against mediocre opposition to adapt to the role as well as a warm-up over here. If we throw Root in mid-series against an in-form, high-class attack then it's hardly the ideal preparation. Think he has the right attitude for it, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 11:53:52 GMT 1
I don't care on the manner of the defeat - this is the same team that won its previous match handsomely. I'm not for wholesale changes after one result in a team sport regardless of the team and the sport. One or two changes maybe but let's stick to that please. Winning at Cardiff handsomely must be accepted as an unexpected blip. The Aussies are far superior to anyone we throw at them. Unless Saeed Ajmal becomes available that is
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Post by shrewinjapan on Jul 20, 2015 13:30:20 GMT 1
The team only won it's previous match handsomely as a result of Haddin's dropping of Root. On such fine margins are games won and lost. I agree you could say the same about us dropping Smith when he was 50 though. That's an incredibly harsh assessment of a comprehensive victory by England. 5 changes is slightly too many. Now I've chilled out a bit perhaps Finn for Wood and Bairstow for Ballance might be a better shout! Yeah, I would agree. And Wood wouldn't be being dropped, just rested/rotated really. Bell I would leave in for Edgbaston, but it would be pretty much last chance for him to turn his form around for me. Lyth also I would persevere with a bit longer, but if he were to get out cheaply twice again and show the same vulnerability outside off then I'd probably give someone else a go in the 4th test.
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Post by lenny on Jul 20, 2015 14:03:11 GMT 1
That's an incredibly harsh assessment of a comprehensive victory by England. 5 changes is slightly too many. Now I've chilled out a bit perhaps Finn for Wood and Bairstow for Ballance might be a better shout! Yeah, I would agree. And Wood wouldn't be being dropped, just rested/rotated really. Bell I would leave in for Edgbaston, but it would be pretty much last chance for him to turn his form around for me. Lyth also I would persevere with a bit longer, but if he were to get out cheaply twice again and show the same vulnerability outside off then I'd probably give someone else a go in the 4th test. Pretty much bang on with my thoughts. The number 3 question is one I'd consider, though. I'd probably throw Root there but Bell couldn't do much worse than he has at 4, and that would avoid disrupting our best player in the middle of a massive series. With Lyth, he's been saying how his natural style is aggressive and he won't change that, but one has to adapt. This is test cricket. Against this calibre of opposition, it's prudent to watch the ball for a few overs first - look at how Buttler (best judge of a limited overs innings we have imo) starts slowly in ODIs and try to emulate that. Get a feel for the pitch, see off the immediate danger of a brand new ball and fresh, pumped-up bowlers and then once you've faced a few balls and start seeing it better, then you can go after it. Warner, while not too successful so far this tour (although he must still be averaging about 50), has been starting slowly and he's as aggressive an opener as there is in tests. We've committed to being aggressive, which is all well and good, but we need to be flexible. I'm glad Cook looked more stolid this test because he tried to be too aggressive last test and him chasing the ball outside off is what got him in his horrible rut. Since he's been out of the ODI side and has been leaving it, his form has come back. Also, I've liked his captaincy so far this series. There wasn't too much more he could have done in the last test; he kept trying different things throughout but the bowling was, bar Broad, useless. Also, I really like how Stokes seems to be developing into a consistently useful Batsman. Haven't seen his dismissal from yesterday which I gather was farcical, but to be honest I don't really care. The game was gone by that stage and he's not a player you can ever accuse of a lack of guts or bravery. Just a stupid moment. Aside from that he's been much less hit and miss in his batting. Bowling still needs a bit of work but he's a better bowler than his average suggests. Happy to admit, since he's been moved back to 6, he's proved me totally wrong since I suggested he should be dropped.
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Post by lenny on Jul 20, 2015 15:25:23 GMT 1
On the point of Craig Overton, he blasted 51 off as many balls and 6-74 over the last couple of days at Edgbaston, where there is also England interest from Chris Woakes. Bowled well recently in his first class return and 3-48 in the first innings of this game, currently 0-10 in the second innings. Really like Woakes and thought he was starting to look at home in the international scene before his injury, both at test level and in ODIs where he was our best bowler. Fantastic first class record with both bat and ball, too - better than Stokes in either regard. Swings the ball nicely, and is pretty consistent and accurate. Perhaps the next test is too soon after his injury and his batting isn't back to where it was, but I'd like to see him back in the side when he's 100% - perhaps in place of Bell if he keeps struggling with Mo moved up the order?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2015 20:27:08 GMT 1
I think Bell will keep his place due to combination of his home ground and the experience he brings but the series will likely be last. I think they will stick with Lyth and I hope they do, 4 tests is no time to prove himself, the people who are clamouring for him to be replaced were probably the ones demanding he was brought into the team. Ballance could be the one to miss out, out of form and doesnt have the experience of Bell or the 'newness' of Lyth, the Aussies have worked out his weakness although they have done that with most of the side!
I said before the NZ series that it would be interesting to see how the English public reacted to the 'new England' because with some new players coming into test cricket and others coming towards the end of their career it was obvious it would take time and we would be very inconsistent. This series has already shown that the fickle nature and lack of patience that is evident in football has now worked itself into cricket.
What does make me laugh is people are clamouring for the likes of Bairstow, Compton and Taylor yet these are players who were deemed to have previously failed for England, why are they now going to be our saviours?
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Post by andygroundo on Jul 20, 2015 20:43:52 GMT 1
First of all make sure we push home advantage by producing a track to suit our bowlers, mainly Anderson and Broad.
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Post by lenny on Jul 20, 2015 21:54:42 GMT 1
I think Bell will keep his place due to combination of his home ground and the experience he brings but the series will likely be last. I think they will stick with Lyth and I hope they do, 4 tests is no time to prove himself, the people who are clamouring for him to be replaced were probably the ones demanding he was brought into the team. Ballance could be the one to miss out, out of form and doesnt have the experience of Bell or the 'newness' of Lyth, the Aussies have worked out his weakness although they have done that with most of the side! I said before the NZ series that it would be interesting to see how the English public reacted to the 'new England' because with some new players coming into test cricket and others coming towards the end of their career it was obvious it would take time and we would be very inconsistent. This series has already shown that the fickle nature and lack of patience that is evident in football has now worked itself into cricket. What does make me laugh is people are clamouring for the likes of Bairstow, Compton and Taylor yet these are players who were deemed to have previously failed for England, why are they now going to be our saviours? Compton I agree shouldn't be brought back in. Hasn't exactly been brilliant this season, just decent, and has been batting at 3. Taylor and Bairstow are young players who have improved substantially - the latter is enjoying his best ever season by a mile, averaging over 100 in the CC from playing pretty much every game; and the former has just made his career best score (although his form before that was nothing special) and was hardly deemed not good enough - he played 2 games against South Africa. He's also followed that up by being the best player in our ODI side and making runs in Australia in the process, before being cast aside this summer.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2015 12:47:07 GMT 1
I think Bell will keep his place due to combination of his home ground and the experience he brings but the series will likely be last. I think they will stick with Lyth and I hope they do, 4 tests is no time to prove himself, the people who are clamouring for him to be replaced were probably the ones demanding he was brought into the team. Ballance could be the one to miss out, out of form and doesnt have the experience of Bell or the 'newness' of Lyth, the Aussies have worked out his weakness although they have done that with most of the side! I said before the NZ series that it would be interesting to see how the English public reacted to the 'new England' because with some new players coming into test cricket and others coming towards the end of their career it was obvious it would take time and we would be very inconsistent. This series has already shown that the fickle nature and lack of patience that is evident in football has now worked itself into cricket. What does make me laugh is people are clamouring for the likes of Bairstow, Compton and Taylor yet these are players who were deemed to have previously failed for England, why are they now going to be our saviours? Compton I agree shouldn't be brought back in. Hasn't exactly been brilliant this season, just decent, and has been batting at 3. Taylor and Bairstow are young players who have improved substantially - the latter is enjoying his best ever season by a mile, averaging over 100 in the CC from playing pretty much every game; and the former has just made his career best score (although his form before that was nothing special) and was hardly deemed not good enough - he played 2 games against South Africa. He's also followed that up by being the best player in our ODI side and making runs in Australia in the process, before being cast aside this summer. My comments were more aimed at some of the fickle fans, rather than a criticism of the players. I think they were all treated harshly and deserved to be given more of a chance but worryingly we seemed to be heading backtowards the 90's mentality of chopping and changing, normally based on bringing in who was doing well at the time in county cricket. Bairstow is probably the man to come in with the form he is in, I hope he is given time but have no doubt that if he does fail in this series the knives will already be out with people saying "he can't play the short ball, isn't good enough at test level blah blah blah". With the latest 'new England' this year, the worst thing that could have been in place was the Ashes. Had we been playing exciting, brave cricket but losing more than we were winning against India for example then people would have been accepting because they could see we were going in the right direction. However people don't want to see us lose to the Aussies so some would prefer to see a team full of experienced players (eg Trott, KP) rather than one that is set up for the future
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Post by lenny on Jul 21, 2015 16:18:38 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33612502Bairstow in for Ballance with Bell and Root set to play 3 and 4 respectively. Rashid and Finn still in the squad so potential for one of them to come in. Also good to hear the selectors saying how Ballance just needs to go and score county runs and he remains a key part of the long-term plan.
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Post by lenny on Jul 21, 2015 16:20:48 GMT 1
Rashid, incidentally, has taken 3-58 from 16 overs so far as Yorkshire are dominating Worcestershire.
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Post by vanner on Jul 22, 2015 1:56:10 GMT 1
Rushworth with just the 6 wickets today.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 9:49:17 GMT 1
To be honest I think the selectors have made the right move here. Balance looked shot to me at Headingley against the Kiwis his dismissal where the sky cameras showed that he wasn't even looking at the ball was horrendous, and that form seems to have continued....I think he is probably more of a number five than an number three really, at the minute all of his triggers, shots & feet movement don't seem to be working as one fluid movement and time away to rediscover his mojo can only help.
Bell to three is a gamble, but hopefully one that will give him the kick up the arse he needs much in the same way as Stokes to six seemed to awaken him.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 22, 2015 10:17:43 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33612502Bairstow in for Ballance with Bell and Root set to play 3 and 4 respectively. Rashid and Finn still in the squad so potential for one of them to come in. Also good to hear the selectors saying how Ballance just needs to go and score county runs and he remains a key part of the long-term plan. I seem to recall Taylor being told something similar. Just scored 291 but no nearer selection.
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Post by northwestman on Jul 22, 2015 10:24:34 GMT 1
Rushworth with just the 6 wickets today. Doesn't matter if he gets another 5 today. Will never be selected. His team mate Onions will be able to confirm that as he's also been on the sharp end of being the leading wicket taker in the country and not being selected. They picked Finn, Tremlett and Rankin ahead of him for the 2013/2014 trip to Australia. The rest is history. Things have got so bad for Rankin nowadays he's about 4th seamer status for Warwickshire and is seriously thinking of reverting back to playing for Ireland.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2015 10:25:38 GMT 1
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/33612502Bairstow in for Ballance with Bell and Root set to play 3 and 4 respectively. Rashid and Finn still in the squad so potential for one of them to come in. Also good to hear the selectors saying how Ballance just needs to go and score county runs and he remains a key part of the long-term plan. I seem to recall Taylor being told something similar. Just scored 291 but no nearer selection. Last chance saloon for Bell i think!
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