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Post by champagneprince on May 9, 2015 15:32:27 GMT 1
Let's not forget NWM that people need no knowledge of politics whatsoever as we all get just one vote. A bit of knowledge only makes it easier to discuss. When people are in the voting booth they don't think about what somebody has been saying on a football messageboard, however knowledgeable that person on the messageboard may have been.
The Conservatives have been given a big chance by the populace. Labour basically blew it the day they appointed Miliband and as the big day approached his basic prattness, naivety, and smugness (almost on a Kinnock/Sheffield scale) became much more apparent as we saw more of him. His talk with Russell Brand and bizaare stone tablet showed staggering stupidity at a crucial time. More Rik Mayall New Statesman, rather than a credible statesman the country wanted.
The public have given Cameron a chance. This is a trust thing. We have trusted him that 'the plan' is working, but if it doesn't improve within the next five years, all that trust will be thrown out of the window. The public may have been surprised by a the massive demise of Nick Clegg but a Labour landslide might not be out of the question next time if Cameron cocks it up. Let's not forget he's going to leave at some point and that is something will need to be addressed at some point in the next 5 years. How can you vote for a party where you don't know the leader?
The choice of Labour's next leader is absolutely critical and a golden opportunity for them to be in power in 2020 if they get it right. Cameron needs to get the good times back and leave 3 years into his term whilst things are going well and we can see we're in good hands.
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Post by thesensationaljt on May 9, 2015 17:25:47 GMT 1
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Post by northwestman on May 9, 2015 18:30:14 GMT 1
Next Conservative Leader looks to be a straight fight between Osborne and Johnson, with May very much the outsider.
Mind you, the fragrant Esther McVey harbours ambitions to be PM too. There is however the ever so small problem that the good electors of Wirral West have thrown her out. A minor problem apparently, as there are already suggestions that she should shortly be placed in the House of Lords and operate as a Minister from there. There would then be no need for her having to to take the gamble of an appropriate bye election being made available to her in the immediate future and even less risk of her not being voted in!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 1:00:26 GMT 1
See that the socialist workers have respected the democratic process with class, by rioting in London today
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Post by frankwellshrews on May 10, 2015 1:11:12 GMT 1
See that the socialist workers have respected the democratic process with class, by rioting in London today In Cardiff too. I posted in the other thread that I could foresee civil unrest ahead. Didn't expect it to start so soon but can't say I'm surprised, not when a party voted for by less than a quarter of the electorate has sole power over the country and is forcing through an unpopular and unwanted austerity agenda. Long five years ahead by the looks of things.
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Post by sussexshrew on May 10, 2015 1:15:47 GMT 1
We may be seeing more riots if we have 5 years of even more stringent cuts ahead of us, and the gap between rich and poor accelerates at an even faster pace.
Still, down here, from the Peoples' Socialist Republic of Hove, we will try and lead the fight back.
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Post by sussexshrew on May 10, 2015 1:20:36 GMT 1
And making that ghastly Michael Gove Justice secretary, will be incendiary.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 8:16:54 GMT 1
See that the socialist workers have respected the democratic process with class, by rioting in London today It's odd isn't it that when people protest and riot in other countries, Ukraine, the Middle East being good examples, following elections where they feel their voice hasn't been heard, we clap and cheer and congratulate them on their great spirit in standing against injustice. When it happens here they're just a bunch of lefty hooligans with no respect for other peoples democratic wishes!
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 8:30:36 GMT 1
And making that ghastly Michael Gove Justice secretary, will be incendiary. Yes. I couldn't believe that. I foolishly thought he was being eased out when he was removed from trashing Education. How wrong I was! It probably was no more than a cynical pre-election ploy by Cameron to take Gove out of the public eye until after the election. I should have remembered he's very much part of the Chipping Norton party set. So kiss goodbye to the Human Rights Act then, which has been very effectively rubbished by the Tories and the right wing press. And welcome to 1984 - the snoopers charter whereby the State will monitor every e-mail, text or any other communication made by every individual in the country. It just remains for them to set up Room 104 and the rats, though with Gove now in charge of prisons he'll be making Grayling look like a wet liberal, so anything is possible.
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 8:39:13 GMT 1
We may be seeing more riots if we have 5 years of even more stringent cuts ahead of us, and the gap between rich and poor accelerates at an even faster pace. Still, down here, from the Peoples' Socialist Republic of Hove, we will try and lead the fight back. I believe that Boris Johnson has already purchased a number of water cannons for London. Can't for the life of me think why!
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Post by shrewsace on May 10, 2015 8:45:42 GMT 1
Gove as justice secretary is pure trolling by Cameron. He's basically saying 'Look, I can do what the **** I like now''.
But while I oppose austerity, and was pretty depressed that the Tories won a majority, rioting is not the answer.
Our democracy is far from perfect but this is the result it had delivered and those to the left just have to suck it up.
I don't mean those who oppose the Tories have to sit on their hands for a the next five years, but there has to be a more constructive way.
That said, I don't know the who.e story and this could have been a peaceful demo that met with heavy handed policing.
In my experience there's usually about 95 per cent peacefully exercising their right to protest, and 5 per cent of trouble making dickheads who get all the headlines and, ironically, completely undermine the demo.
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 9:00:59 GMT 1
Gove as justice secretary is pure trolling by Cameron. He's basically saying 'Look, I can do what the **** I like now''. But while I oppose austerity, and was pretty depressed that the Tories won a majority, rioting is not the answer. Our democracy is far from perfect but this is the result it had delivered and those to the left just have to suck it up. I don't mean those who oppose the Tories have to sit on their hands for a the next five years, but there has to be a more constructive way. That said, I don't know the who.e story and this could have been a peaceful demo that met with heavy handed policing. In my experience there's usually about 95 per cent peacefully exercising their right to protest, and 5 per cent of trouble making dickheads who get all the headlines and, ironically, completely undermine the demo. I'm sure the right to protest might be under review. It's encapsulated in the Human Rights Act, but who knows what the replacement British Bill of Rights will contain! Almost certainly a watering down of our rights. Incidentally, putting Gove (Justice Secretary) against May (Home Office) is like putting two ferrets in a sack. So what's Cameron's agenda here? He always has one.
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Post by ssshrew on May 10, 2015 10:27:02 GMT 1
Gove as justice secretary is pure trolling by Cameron. He's basically saying 'Look, I can do what the **** I like now''. But while I oppose austerity, and was pretty depressed that the Tories won a majority, rioting is not the answer. Our democracy is far from perfect but this is the result it had delivered and those to the left just have to suck it up. I don't mean those who oppose the Tories have to sit on their hands for a the next five years, but there has to be a more constructive way. That said, I don't know the who.e story and this could have been a peaceful demo that met with heavy handed policing. In my experience there's usually about 95 per cent peacefully exercising their right to protest, and 5 per cent of trouble making dickheads who get all the headlines and, ironically, completely undermine the demo. I'm sure the right to protest might be under review. It's encapsulated in the Human Rights Act, but who knows what the replacement British Bill of Rights will contain! Almost certainly a watering down of our rights. Incidentally, putting Gove (Justice Secretary) against May (Home Office) is like putting two ferrets in a sack. So what's Cameron's agenda here? He always has one. Putting aside the fact that Cameron has no integrity when it comes to choosing the right people (who in their right mind would appoint someone from the News of the World even before the phone hacking scandal, the company he keeps (e.g, Rebecca Brooks and co), etc.,etc., it should be remembered that within two to two and half years he is going to be a somewhat 'lame duck' PM having already announced his decision to stand down. Therefore, he will need all the friends he can get of whatever calibre. Of course, he could always follow the Nick Clegg school of politics a la tuition fees and just change his mind because it suits him, and just say "well actually I'm having such a beano, I don't think I'll go after all "- go on that'll show em Davey boy!!!! For a reason best known to himself (probably to keep him sweet) he has appointed the awful George Osborne to some high office that probably means not a lot except in status and has now capped that with this idiot Gove. If he does the same with justice as he did with education then be afraid ........ Be very afraid. To be honest I was amazed there were no demonstrations, etc., last time round ..... I was waiting for it to happen. So long as they stay peaceful I have no objection but stupidity like daubing statues just seems a waste of effort to me. Dignity is always best in whatever circumstances. (Unless you've just gone up a league of course!!!!!).
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Post by mattmw on May 10, 2015 10:35:58 GMT 1
Agree with SSShrew in being surprised that more protest didn't take place after the last election
Think it was possibly that the cuts were slightly eased by the Liberal Dems, and tended just to impact on certain sections of society. Next round of cuts will hit everyone - even rural Shropshire.
Going to be interesting how Shropshire folk react to rural school closures, significant down grading of Shrewsbury and Telford hospitals; removal of adult social care and reduced access to cancer drugs through the NHS. All in the manifesto so no protesting when it happens
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 10:44:15 GMT 1
And making that ghastly Michael Gove Justice secretary, will be incendiary. Yes. I couldn't believe that. I foolishly thought he was being eased out when he was removed from trashing Education. How wrong I was! It probably was no more than a cynical pre-election ploy by Cameron to take Gove out of the public eye until after the election. I should have remembered he's very much part of the Chipping Norton party set. So kiss goodbye to the Human Rights Act then, which has been very effectively rubbished by the Tories and the right wing press. And welcome to 1984 - the snoopers charter whereby the State will monitor every e-mail, text or any other communication made by every individual in the country. It just remains for them to set up Room 104 and the rats, though with Gove now in charge of prisons he'll be making Grayling look like a wet liberal, so anything is possible. Actually, on reflection the Conservatives have already set up Room 104 and it won them the election. The fear factor created by them in the electorate as to the likely horrors which would occur if Labour propped up by the ultra left SNP ran the country was ruthlessly exploited to the full and resulted in votes being delivered.
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Post by ssshrew on May 10, 2015 11:00:55 GMT 1
Agree with SSShrew in being surprised that more protest didn't take place after the last election Think it was possibly that the cuts were slightly eased by the Liberal Dems, and tended just to impact on certain sections of society. Next round of cuts will hit everyone - even rural Shropshire. Going to be interesting how Shropshire folk react to rural school closures, significant down grading of Shrewsbury and Telford hospitals; removal of adult social care and reduced access to cancer drugs through the NHS. All in the manifesto so no protesting when it happens Talking to a very rare species in Church Stretton last night, I.e., not Tory voters, they are firmly of the opinion that the Shropshire electorate will blame their local councils for the cuts as they can't think it through as to why the council doesn't have enough money!!!
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2015 11:57:22 GMT 1
Appointing Gove keeps those who might be to the right of the Conservative party happy I suppose.
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 12:03:45 GMT 1
Agree with SSShrew in being surprised that more protest didn't take place after the last election Think it was possibly that the cuts were slightly eased by the Liberal Dems, and tended just to impact on certain sections of society. Next round of cuts will hit everyone - even rural Shropshire. Going to be interesting how Shropshire folk react to rural school closures, significant down grading of Shrewsbury and Telford hospitals; removal of adult social care and reduced access to cancer drugs through the NHS. All in the manifesto so no protesting when it happens Talking to a very rare species in Church Stretton last night, I.e., not Tory voters, they are firmly of the opinion that the Shropshire electorate will blame their local councils for the cuts as they can't think it through as to why the council doesn't have enough money!!! That's EXACTLY why the Tories have devolved extra powers to the Labour run Greater Manchester Council whilst underfunding them.
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Post by shrewsace on May 10, 2015 12:10:59 GMT 1
Of course I'm sure that all the Tories gracefully accepted the democratic will of the people during 13 years of Labour government.
They didn't whinge, moan, snipe or complain. Not once.
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Post by northwestman on May 10, 2015 12:12:44 GMT 1
Appointing Gove keeps those who might be to the right of the Conservative party happy I suppose. It won't have Theresa May smiling though. There is a conspiracy theory already up and running that Cameron has placed Gove here to rattle her cage prior to Cameron moving her to somewhere like Foreign Secretary to have her out of the Country quite a lot whilst Cameron/Osborne/Johnson start setting up Cameron's successor. Dirty game is politics. I see Chuka Umunna was allegedly ringing round canvassing for support for a leadership bid even before Miliband had resigned. Yet Umunna was one of the 70 or so M.Ps who supported Miliband's original leadership bid. Now he's writing articles in the Guardian bad mouthing Miliband's strategy.
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Post by shrewsace on May 10, 2015 13:19:57 GMT 1
Appointing Gove keeps those who might be to the right of the Conservative party happy I suppose. It won't have Theresa May smiling though. There is a conspiracy theory already up and running that Cameron has placed Gove here to rattle her cage prior to Cameron moving her to somewhere like Foreign Secretary to have her out of the Country quite a lot whilst Cameron/Osborne/Johnson start setting up Cameron's successor. Dirty game is politics. I see Chuka Umunna was allegedly ringing round canvassing for support for a leadership bid even before Miliband had resigned. Yet Umunna was one of the 70 or so M.Ps who supported Miliband's original leadership bid. Now he's writing articles in the Guardian bad mouthing Miliband's strategy. Labour are at a crossroads now, either a return to Blairism and 'New Labour' or a more left of centre party, probably under Andy Burnham. I really hope the party goes for Burnham; I can't see how it can challenge the Tories in 2020 if all it is offering is essentially a watered down, cuddlier version of the Tories. Whatever Labour chooses it needs a clear and coherent message, not the 'Tory cuts are bad, vote them out' message running alongside the 'we'll be tougher than the Tories' message.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on May 10, 2015 13:32:14 GMT 1
Look, if you're going to get personal at least get the union and the the role right. Don't take it personally Nicko, I'm sure that UNITE are a decent enough union and that you represent it admirably Although to be fair to B&A's resident flat track bully I did think you'd put a couple of pounds on when I saw you at Cheltenham You really need to start worrying when he treatens to report you to your employer, proper scary that is Oh dear. What a poor, poor comeback
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Post by SeanBroseley on May 10, 2015 21:42:11 GMT 1
The Gove story shows what a political weathervane David Cameron is. Gove was removed from education because the American election adviser said that he was becoming an negative issue. I recall there were stories that after he left the department he was still being briefed by civil servants on education policy.
The election is now won and Cameron brings him back.
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Post by jamo on May 10, 2015 21:45:17 GMT 1
Gove. ( Justice Ministry) V May ( Home Office ) Part 2, promises to be a decent spectator sport
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Post by mattmw on May 10, 2015 21:50:30 GMT 1
The Gove story shows what a political weathervane David Cameron is. Gove was removed from education because the American election adviser said that he was becoming an negative issue. I recall there were stories that after he left the department he was still being briefed by civil servants on education policy. The election is now won and Cameron brings him back. Exactly - sums Cameron up very well. Rather than be brave about his political convictions he glosses over them in public and during the election, rather than be open and honest about what he believes in. Much like his chum Clarkson he's happy to pick on the little guy but isn't brave enough to put his real policies before the British public.
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Post by RBA on May 10, 2015 22:04:12 GMT 1
I am not a member of the Labour party(or any other party for that matter) but if I was I would go for Liz Kendal she was superb on Sunday Politics and seemed to grasp why Labour didn't connect with voters this time and what must change FOR 2020- of the rest I think Burnham would be a total disaster implicated as he was in Mid Staffs and Yvette Cooper is too associated with past failure just my thoughts
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Post by markglasgow on May 10, 2015 23:18:28 GMT 1
But is it not fathomable that many Scottish people want the SNP to represent them in Westminster but not necessarily as a sovereign independent government? In many respects similar to the people that voted UKIP in the European elections but returned to their normal vote when it came down to the general election. I personally disagree if there was an independent referendum put to the vote tomorrow, it would be as much a forgone conclusion as you think. Likewise with the vote on Europe. I'm sure the SNP still have a lot of people to convince about their anti-austerity measures and what provisions are in place for when the debt wracks up. Students particularly get a pretty good deal when it comes to tuition fees up there, that would surely be of some concern if they to the ballot boxes. It's only been nine months since the independence referendum, the mechanics haven't changed that much. Cameron is still in number 10 and it isn't just the Scots that are grossly misrepresented in UK politics. I think a revision of the devo max agreement is probably the most likely outcome of this election. It cuts both ways. Yes there will be people who voted SNP on Thursday but may not be keen on independance. There is also those who may not be comfortable with the far left politics of the SNP but believe that decisions made on Scotland's future are best made in-house. Not sure that a vote on independence would be foregone conclusion either but the 45% vote would be built upon and nudge closer to the majority required. Personally I'd be uncomfortable with such a slim margin. Our country needs to be certain and sure. Whilst the issue of independence may have been off the table during this election, SNP's stance on anti-austerity was very much key policy. Few needed convincing on that count. Cameron has already indicated that there will be no further movement beyond the current Smith Commission proposals. Such a naive and potentially stance to take. This, combined with the forthcoming Euro vote may signal the end of the union as we know it.
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Post by MartinB on May 11, 2015 6:59:01 GMT 1
I'm sure the right to protest might be under review. It's encapsulated in the Human Rights Act, but who knows what the replacement British Bill of Rights will contain! Almost certainly a watering down of our rights. Incidentally, putting Gove (Justice Secretary) against May (Home Office) is like putting two ferrets in a sack. So what's Cameron's agenda here? He always has one. Of course, he could always follow the Nick Clegg school of politics a la tuition fees and just change his mind because it suits him, and just say "well actually I'm having such a beano, I don't think I'll go after all "- go on that'll show em Davey boy!!!! For me this election wasn't won or loss on policies it was decided on tactics or spin. The Labour party got their's very wrong whilst the Conservatives timed their's just right. The post above shows how Labour got it so wrong, starting after they lost the last election. I remember an article about the damage the Labour Party were doing to their chances of getting elected by attacking the Lib Dems. As it turned out alot of Lib Dem seats went to the Conservatives based on Labours attacks on the Tuition Fees position. If the Lib Dem's had been the major party in the last coalition then 100% that policy should have become law but they weren't so they went for their policy of raising the tax allowances for us all and changing the way student loans will be repaid which will mean a majority ofstudents would end up paying less unless they earn alot of money. Stranger how the "spin" that got Tony Blair elected and then kept him in power is accepted by the Labour supporters on here but "tactics" used by David Cameron are him playing a dirty game.
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Post by northwestman on May 11, 2015 8:00:43 GMT 1
Just heard Cameron on the Radio.
The words 'bumptious'and 'arrogant' come to mind.He clearly feels he now can do whatever he likes now that the left and the Blairites in the Labour party are fighting each other over who their new leader will be and what direction they will take, whilst the LibDems are virtually wiped out.
Today's announcement is that IDS remains as Work and Pensions Secretary and will preside over £12 billion of Welfare cuts, not a subject they'd have wanted to go into too much depth about during the election campaign. IDS will now have to work out how he can get his sidekick McVey back, probably by sticking her in the House of Lords so she can work as a Minister from there. Lady McVey of Wirral West has a certain ring to it!
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on May 11, 2015 11:18:49 GMT 1
My youngest is a post grad at Oxford and friendly with a lad who worked as an intern for the Telegraph.
He says that he was sent to report on a visit to local factory by Mr Cameron and heard Cameron telling one of the workers that he supported 'Aston Ham'. That part of his report was not printed.
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