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Post by theshrews81 on Apr 24, 2015 6:48:05 GMT 1
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 8:17:14 GMT 1
Hench why I say do not even get into discussion with them, the burden of proof lies with them and it is the driver of the vehicle, by entering into discussion with them then you are starting the process yourself.
Once you enter into discussions with them, then they will chase you, if you ignore them it will never get past the 6th letter as they still have no clue who was driving, you are not obliged to state who was driving.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 24, 2015 8:17:21 GMT 1
why didn't he just tell the judge Downie said he wouldn't have to pay
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 8:44:53 GMT 1
Hench why I say do not even get into discussion with them, the burden of proof lies with them and it is the driver of the vehicle, by entering into discussion with them then you are starting the process yourself. Once you enter into discussions with them, then they will chase you, if you ignore them it will never get past the 6th letter as they still have no clue who was driving, you are not obliged to state who was driving. Hench?
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Post by northwestman on Apr 24, 2015 9:01:27 GMT 1
Have had dealings with Parking Eye myself.
I paid up for overstaying at a retail park. Months later I get letters from a debt collection agency demanding three times the sum I've already paid Parking Eye. I explain that I've already paid and they claim their demand is for another parking fine. I ask for proof and they send me the same picture of my car parked in the same retail park at the same time as was sent to me originally.
Eventually, after hours of my time being wasted sending them one e-mail after another without any adequate response forthcoming I just gave up and ignored them. The worst thing you can do is to start to engage in communications with these people. It's an exercise in utter futility.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 9:23:38 GMT 1
Hench why I say do not even get into discussion with them, the burden of proof lies with them and it is the driver of the vehicle, by entering into discussion with them then you are starting the process yourself. Once you enter into discussions with them, then they will chase you, if you ignore them it will never get past the 6th letter as they still have no clue who was driving, you are not obliged to state who was driving. Check the law as you are totally wrong. If they write to you as The Registered Vehicle Keeper, they have obtained your information from The DVLA. To obtain your information the company have to be an Approved Operator Scheme member of The British Parking Association. All BPA/AOS companies are annually audited by The DVLA to ensure that they are fit and proper to apply for Registered Keeper details. If you advise them that you where not the driver of the vehicle at the time of the "event",but do not advise them who was, they can still legally pursue you. Since clamping was banned there are very few organisations in the Car Park Management industry who have are not BPA/AOS accredited, any who are not cannot legally obtain your details and certainly cannot pursue nor enter a prosecution against you. I appreciate that car parking is an emotive subject, the "cowboys" where the clamping companies. Certainly some of the big players in the industry, i.e Parking Eye, Euro Car Parks, might just constantly write to you due to the sheer number of car parks that they manage. Other smaller operators, who also have other divisions of their companies, are more likely to pursue you and will get a County Court Judgement ( CCJ) against you. It's your personal choice of course, but if you decide to ignore a PCN,even though you probably agree that it was issued for all the right reasons,e.g your Pay & Display ticket had expired or you had parked outside of the lined bay don't be suprised if you are pursued
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Post by northwestman on Apr 24, 2015 9:44:17 GMT 1
I agree with what you say gainsparkshrew, but don't you think that it's an absolute disgrace on the part of the DVLA that not only do they facilitate the process whereby these companies are given the chance to start harassing you but they actually make money out of every Registered Vehicle Keeper's set of details that they pass on?
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 10:02:24 GMT 1
I agree with what you say gainsparkshrew, but don't you think that it's an absolute disgrace on the part of the DVLA that not only do they facilitate the process whereby these companies are given the chance to start harassing you but they actually make money out of every Registered Vehicle Keeper's set of details that they pass on? Good point Northwestman, and of course you are correct, the DVLA charge for every Registered Vehicle Keeper Details that are requested from them, they have to make money. Have you seen the size of The DVLA operation at Swansea?.Its so big that it has it's own internal underground railway system to move the mail around. One final thing on my previous e-mail, I hadn't read the article and didn't realise that the charge was £85. In Shrewsbury and Telford the maximum charge is £60, and if you pay within 14 days its £35. The warning signs that are placed by the companies vary in standard,but the BPA/AOS ones have to comply to a minimum standard. The best example of good , clear and concise signage that I know of are Barker St Short Term and The Gap, Raven Meadows
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 10:43:09 GMT 1
Earlier this year I received a CPCCN because I had parked inches over the marked parking bay. For this they wanted £100 off me, or £60 if I paid up straight away. I challenged this with them, no dice they said, cough up or else they said.
I therefore appealed to the Independent Appeals Service who ruled in my favour. The parking charge was therefore cancelled. I now make sure that I park within the white lines & also make sure I'm out of the car parks I use before the 3 hours are up! (free parking for the first 3 hours).
I did read that the DVLA get £2.50 for each request they receive for owner details. Nice little earner that.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 11:08:10 GMT 1
Earlier this year I received a CPCCN because I had parked inches over the marked parking bay. For this they wanted £100 off me, or £60 if I paid up straight away. I challenged this with them, no dice they said, cough up or else they said. I therefore appealed to the Independent Appeals Service who ruled in my favour. The parking charge was therefore cancelled. I now make sure that I park within the white lines & also make sure I'm out of the car parks I use before the 3 hours are up! (free parking for the first 3 hours). I did read that the DVLA get £2.50 for each request they receive for owner details. Nice little earner that. Good one Chaddy, That was something that I omitted to add, if you appeal against the "parking ticket" the operator can either uphold your appeal and waive the charge or decline your appeal. If the appeal is declined the Operator has to legally send you a document for you to complete and forward to the independant arbitory body- POPLA, the Parking on Private Lands Appeals commitee. POPLA look at each case independently, viewing the evidence supplied by both parties, and make a decision. Again the decision is legally binding, if they find in the case of the motorist then the "ticket"is cancelled and the operator has to pay POPLAs costs If they find in favour of the operator then the "ticket" has to be paid, and the operator can pursue the motorist if it isn't paid. Therefore it is now an open and fair system, and a long way away from the old cowboy clamping companies where you could literally be held to ransom by a shady company. I also believe that you are right about the £2.50 DVLA fee
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Post by atcham jack on Apr 24, 2015 12:04:28 GMT 1
why not boycott sainsburys. with Tesco losing billions, sainsburys will not be far behind. surely some agreement can be reached with them, otherwise AJ, Er Indoors and the Bears will boycott
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Post by mattmw on Apr 24, 2015 12:09:15 GMT 1
why not boycott sainsburys. with Tesco losing billions, sainsburys will not be far behind. surely some agreement can be reached with them, otherwise AJ, Er Indoors and the Bears will boycott Sainsburys don't own the car park at the Meole retail park it's a private company.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 13:14:14 GMT 1
why not boycott sainsburys. with Tesco losing billions, sainsburys will not be far behind. surely some agreement can be reached with them, otherwise AJ, Er Indoors and the Bears will boycott Sainsburys don't own the car park at the Meole retail park it's a private company. You may be right, you may be wrong, on who actually owns the Sainsburys Car Park, I've no idea. The one thing that I can tell you is that the company who do the Car Park Management on the Car Park do not own it, they will be contracted to Sainsburys, nationally and via a Sainsburys H.O contract, to provide the service to as many Sainsburys Car Parks as Sainsburys want to be managed. The Car Park at The Meole Brace Retail Park, next door, is probably owned by a pension fund of some sorts who have contracted the management of the whole park, including getting tenants into the units etc, to a National Facilities Management company who in turn will have a national car park management contract with a National Car Park Management company. The wonderful world of big business eh !, nobody knows who owns what anymore !
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Post by venceremos on Apr 24, 2015 13:20:15 GMT 1
The warning signs that are placed by the companies vary in standard,but the BPA/AOS ones have to comply to a minimum standard. The best example of good , clear and concise signage that I know of are Barker St Short Term and The Gap, Raven Meadows Well you might think that, but I was pursued to the Small Claims Court by the operator of Barker St short stay who was after a CCJ against me. They lost, I won. Why? Because the judge agreed with me that their signage was inadequate.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 14:01:14 GMT 1
Just a recent observation, parked at Barker St recently and thought that the signs where readable,next to the Pay and Display machines, in plain English and at head height...as against those at Meole Brace which where 8' up lamposts and in tiny writing making them almost impossible to read
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Post by venceremos on Apr 24, 2015 14:29:06 GMT 1
My advice to anyone basing their defence on inadequate signage - take photos! The signs, their position, your position - it will all help if you have a case to establish.
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Post by gainsparkshrew on Apr 24, 2015 14:41:37 GMT 1
My advice to anyone basing their defence on inadequate signage - take photos! The signs, their position, your position - it will all help if you have a case to establish. ..especially if you park at Meole Brace...Oh and don't forget to take a step ladder
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Post by mattmw on Apr 24, 2015 17:08:27 GMT 1
Sainsburys don't own the car park at the Meole retail park it's a private company. You may be right, you may be wrong, on who actually owns the Sainsburys Car Park, I've no idea. The one thing that I can tell you is that the company who do the Car Park Management on the Car Park do not own it, they will be contracted to Sainsburys, nationally and via a Sainsburys H.O contract, to provide the service to as many Sainsburys Car Parks as Sainsburys want to be managed. The Car Park at The Meole Brace Retail Park, next door, is probably owned by a pension fund of some sorts who have contracted the management of the whole park, including getting tenants into the units etc, to a National Facilities Management company who in turn will have a national car park management contract with a National Car Park Management company. The wonderful world of big business eh !, nobody knows who owns what anymore ! Bizarrely - and I've never quite known why - but all the parking at Meole Brace including Sainsbury's is owned by an investment company. For a time the British Coal Board were one of the big investors in the company Know staff at the shops have to notify the management company of their number plates so they don't get fined. Will be interesting to see how the expansion of Sainsburys and the new M&S food place on the retail site impacts on parking there. Suspect getting a space on a Saturday will be tough
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Post by Pilch on Apr 24, 2015 17:20:16 GMT 1
sainsburys staff have a sticker that is to be stuck on the rear view mirror i know that because i had one
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Post by davycrockett on Apr 24, 2015 17:49:38 GMT 1
Got some sympathy with those charged for being a few minutes late or parking slightly outside the lines BUT why do people think they can park on the retail park when they're well aware they shouldn't then complain when they gat a ticket? Travel to loads of away games and always check thoroughly for any signage re parking restrictions which there nearly always are on retail parks and find somewhere else...... Perhaps the retail parks have to employ these companies to make sure there's room for their shoppers. One experience my wife and daughter had on a Saturday was to arrived approx 1.30pm... Go to Sainsbury's for shopping, then went on to Boots ending up in Next. Before the left the retail park they had lunch and drinks in Costa in Next where they witnessed their car getting a ticket (its easy to overstay with so many coffee shops et al). Tried to reason with the guy but to no avail........... I went into Sainsbury's with my wife on the Monday to find that their car park is managed by a different company to the rest of the park and the car had been outside Next. Went to Next, spoke to the manager, showed him the receipt from Next and Costa, he phoned the parking company and the ticket was cancelled immediately... Because they had been customers of the retail park not footy fans trying to park for free
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Post by Matster on Apr 24, 2015 18:40:47 GMT 1
Could this investment company who earn so much possibly retarmac the road surfaces and look at sticking another exit from the retail park please.
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Post by Matster on Apr 24, 2015 19:39:09 GMT 1
www.fair-parking.co.uk/This was in the Times on Saturday. He charges £18 for two years of service and you register you car at his business. He checks all mail and forwards important stuff but filters out the nonlegal penalties. Supposedly it's legal and you can't be fined.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2015 21:02:51 GMT 1
Check the law as you are totally wrong. If they write to you as The Registered Vehicle Keeper, they have obtained your information from The DVLA. To obtain your information the company have to be an Approved Operator Scheme member of The British Parking Association. All BPA/AOS companies are annually audited by The DVLA to ensure that they are fit and proper to apply for Registered Keeper details. Please show me what law I am breaking if I do not enter into discussion with them, you are not legally obliged to inform them of anything or indeed confirm anything. they are asking but you don't have to, by not replying, you are not breaking the law. therefore I am not wrong, let alone totally wrong.
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Post by Pilch on Apr 24, 2015 21:52:06 GMT 1
the only surprise here downie is that you don't run a dodgy car clamping firm ;-)
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Post by simianbenzoate on Apr 24, 2015 22:53:26 GMT 1
A bit of misinformation in here... CCJs are not obtained by someone taking you to court (small claims, county or otherwise), you incur them ONLY by failing to pay an court-ordered fine. In the case of these tickets, many things have to happen first; 1) The parking company have to reject your appeal against the ticket (They almost always do, it's not work the hassle) 2) the Independant Appeal people then have reject your appeal to them (there are two now, POPLA and IAS, nearly as bent as each other) 3) the parking company then have to take you to court (generally they don't because the success rate is so low) 4) the parking company have to WIN (generally, you really have to have handed them the case on a plate because there are so many things for them to fall down on) 5) Finally, the court orders you to pay whatever, AND YOU DON'T If you lose in court and don't pay then yeah, you get what's coming to you. But otherwise, you don't get a CCJ for not paying a parking ticket. The decision is ONLY binding on the parking company - if your appeal is upheld they have to drop it, but if it's rejected you are under no obligation to pay it. Either way it costs the parking company £15 -£35 to challenge you and costs you nothing, so it's worth doing just to annoy them Both "independant" bodies are the same in this respect. As i said, there are now 2 appeal bodies - POPLA (British Parking Association) and Independant Appeals Service (IAS) (which is run by the newer IPC - Independent Parking committee). Neither are independant as such - they are run by the trade association for parking companies, which they are required to be part of to operate legally. IPC was set up by the parking companies as a new trade association because they weren't getting results through the BPC's POPLA (80%+ of appeals were upheld). IAS initially had a 50/50 record on appeals/rejections to make IPC look like a fair body, so the government accredited them and allowed their members access to DVLA records to chase people. Since then, they have rejected almost every appeal. Many companies switched to IPC from BPA to try and get better results (ironically, this itself caused problems for them - many appeals were upheld because they were an IPC member but their signage still said BPA) If anyone wants to talk about their "independent" nature of IPC, i suggest you look at their address and their neighbours: Gladstones Solicitors Limited - 1 The Stables, Red Cow Yard, Knutsford, Cheshire, WA16 6DG Parkshield Collection Ltd Unit 3 The Stables, Red Cow Yard, Knutsford, Cheshire, WA16 6DG Independent Parking Committee Ltd 4 The Stables, Red Cow Yard, Cheshire, WA16 6DG Gladstones are the ones who send out threatening court letters to "customers" of Parkshield and many of the big parking companies ... In general - these companies' business model operates on fear and the ignorance of the average consumer. Many people judge that the fine (especially when reduced to 50% for "early settlement") is a fair price to pay for piece of mind, and this "panic money" is the lifeblood of the parking companies, especially when letters start coming through from " debt collectors" threatening "court action". It's all bluster. Personally, i've fought 14 of these tickets, 11 through POPLA and 3 through the IAS (and 2 of these were for the sainsbury's on match day). I've not paid a penny for any of them. IAS are notorious for rejecting appeals (even with clear cut cases), and they don't offer explanations for their decisions unlike POPLA so it can be scary dealing with them. However, in almost all cases, there is no way you should ever have to pay any money. There are many, many places to get proper advice for dealing with these (pepipoo and moneysavingexpert, other websites are available) Strangely, many of the cases i won were based on what these judges went against - that the charge is excessive. In this case, the parking was free for two hours - so either you are being had for damages (in which case they are zero, as the company can only persue you for loss on their behalf - in this case zero, as you wouldn't have had to pay if you'd come and parked again) or you are being penalised for breach of contract (which is legally unenforceable). It's hard to know how they managed to arrive at this decision without seeing the full case, as it goes against almost every other case i've seen. There must have been something the papers have ignored which is actually fundamental to the case...
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youblues
Midland League Division Two
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Post by youblues on Apr 25, 2015 6:19:02 GMT 1
£4 to park anywhere in toys r us car park. Not just bit down side of store
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Post by Matster on Sept 9, 2015 21:01:41 GMT 1
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colaboy
Midland League Division Two
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Post by colaboy on Sept 9, 2015 22:40:44 GMT 1
Compare the photos of the first car. You'll see the shadows on the ground are the same, although the photos have alledgedly been taken two hours apart.
Hmmm, I don't think so mon!
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Sept 9, 2015 23:39:22 GMT 1
I got one by Manchester City stadium one night .for parking in a residents only zone that wasn't even marked on the roads . Luckily the traffic warden spelt the road name wrong , so i appealed and won .
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Post by venceremos on Sept 9, 2015 23:58:33 GMT 1
The local parking company with whom I've had dealings exhibited a pitiful standard of integrity and professionalism when the case went to the small claims court. I wouldn't expect anything different from any of them but it would be instructive to know whether they pay their operatives based on "results".
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