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Post by SouthStandShrew on Feb 26, 2015 12:30:17 GMT 1
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 26, 2015 15:26:26 GMT 1
Well done the U.K ! You finally caught up with the rest of the world in knowing his name. How many months ago did we have this conversation?
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 15:36:59 GMT 1
Well done the U.K ! You finally caught up with the rest of the world in knowing his name. How many months ago did we have this conversation? This has just become public - the time when the British & American security services identified him hasn't been disclosed but you can be sure it was some time ago. Emwazi's been named in court reports as a person of interest to MI5 since at least 2010. When the connection was made to the despicable character in the videos is still secret.
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Post by buryshrew on Feb 26, 2015 15:37:41 GMT 1
So we know his name. I don't really see how it makes a sod of difference to anything. Hardly like he'll be popping back for the weekend is it!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 15:50:52 GMT 1
Dead man walking.
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 26, 2015 15:53:52 GMT 1
Well done the U.K ! You finally caught up with the rest of the world in knowing his name. How many months ago did we have this conversation? This has just become public - the time when the British & American security services identified him hasn't been disclosed but you can be sure it was some time ago. Emwazi's been named in court reports as a person of interest to MI5 since at least 2010. When the connection was made to the despicable character in the videos is still secret. It maybe a secret in the UK, but when we had the conversation on here months ago we in the rest of the world all knew then. A couple of people on here actually disputed that it was being witheld from the great British public. You are all living in a police state, where you are told only what they want you to know. Big Brother is alive and well, and controlling the UK. Ahhhh....... GCHQ are even now logging my IP as a subversive. Where did I put that Guy Fawkes mask?
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 15:55:22 GMT 1
So we know his name. I don't really see how it makes a sod of difference to anything. Hardly like he'll be popping back for the weekend is it! Whether or not we know his name doesn't matter - we're not the ones who'd do anything anyway. A lot of people on the wanted lists have been killed without leaving a "safe" area. The combination of intelligence and drones has been deadly for many (and for too many innocents).
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 26, 2015 16:05:59 GMT 1
So we know his name. I don't really see how it makes a sod of difference to anything. Hardly like he'll be popping back for the weekend is it! Whether or not we know his name doesn't matter - we're not the ones who'd do anything anyway. A lot of people on the wanted lists have been killed without leaving a "safe" area. The combination of intelligence and drones has been deadly for many (and for too many innocents). Its a good job the UK has James Bond and the other "00" agents to take these people out! What's that? They're not real? Just a couple of novels by Ian who? No! Surely not.......
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 16:23:19 GMT 1
This has just become public - the time when the British & American security services identified him hasn't been disclosed but you can be sure it was some time ago. Emwazi's been named in court reports as a person of interest to MI5 since at least 2010. When the connection was made to the despicable character in the videos is still secret. It maybe a secret in the UK, but when we had the conversation on here months ago we in the rest of the world all knew then. A couple of people on here actually disputed that it was being witheld from the great British public. You are all living in a police state, where you are told only what they want you to know. Big Brother is alive and well, and controlling the UK. Ahhhh....... GCHQ are even now logging my IP as a subversive. Where did I put that Guy Fawkes mask? Ha - relax, you're probably on the list already. We're certainly living in a surveillance state but I wouldn't call it a police state just yet. Heading that way though, if people don't stop being so apathetic. in general, we're so obsessed with shiny gadgets and gimmicks that we don't care that they allow us to be watched and monitored as much as the state requires. But dream on if you think Britain's alone in being so tightly controlled. We don't demand the resignation of the chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee when he oversees GCHQ's illegal mass surveillance of the population. When he tries to snaffle a few quid off a non-existent company (and makes himself a security risk in the process), we're a bit more upset and he has to go. Demanding apologies and resignations has become a national sport, so it's odd that we didn't apply that to the ISC. What the heck, come on in officer, yes of course you can track my movements, monitor my communications, eavesdrop if you want to. Do you want to search my house, I've nothing to hide? Oh, wait a minute, yes I have, it's called my private life and it's nothing to do with you, so f*** off out of it! On a related topic, I have no interest in awards but was still delighted to see "CitizenFour" win the best documentary Oscar. Anyone that hasn't seen it, I urge them to catch it on 4OD in the next week. It's outstanding and deeply disturbing (or should be). Technology is making slaves of us all and too few of us seem to care. [Bloody hell trevh, you would go and get me started on this ..... ]
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Post by buryshrew on Feb 26, 2015 16:35:24 GMT 1
It maybe a secret in the UK, but when we had the conversation on here months ago we in the rest of the world all knew then. A couple of people on here actually disputed that it was being witheld from the great British public. You are all living in a police state, where you are told only what they want you to know. Big Brother is alive and well, and controlling the UK. Ahhhh....... GCHQ are even now logging my IP as a subversive. Where did I put that Guy Fawkes mask? Ha - relax, you're probably on the list already. We're certainly living in a surveillance state but I wouldn't call it a police state just yet. Heading that way though, if people don't stop being so apathetic. in general, we're so obsessed with shiny gadgets and gimmicks that we don't care that they allow us to be watched and monitored as much as the state requires. But dream on if you think Britain's alone in being so tightly controlled. We don't demand the resignation of the chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee when he oversees GCHQ's illegal mass surveillance of the population. When he tries to snaffle a few quid off a non-existent company (and makes himself a security risk in the process), we're a bit more upset and he has to go. Demanding apologies and resignations has become a national sport, so it's odd that we didn't apply that to the ISC. What the heck, come on in officer, yes of course you can track my movements, monitor my communications, eavesdrop if you want to. Do you want to search my house, I've nothing to hide? Oh, wait a minute, yes I have, it's called my private life and it's nothing to do with you, so f*** off out of it! On a related topic, I have no interest in awards but was still delighted to see "CitizenFour" win the best documentary Oscar. Anyone that hasn't seen it, I urge them to catch it on 4OD in the next week. It's outstanding and deeply disturbing (or should be). Technology is making slaves of us all and too few of us seem to care. [Bloody hell trevh, you would go and get me started on this ..... ] I think it's fair to say the horse has already bolted on this one. And most people I know seem to dedicate a large part of their life to reporting their every move publicly anyway. Between twitter, facebook and pinterest people's self obsession falls not far short of announcing their bowel movements.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 16:59:00 GMT 1
Ha - relax, you're probably on the list already. We're certainly living in a surveillance state but I wouldn't call it a police state just yet. Heading that way though, if people don't stop being so apathetic. in general, we're so obsessed with shiny gadgets and gimmicks that we don't care that they allow us to be watched and monitored as much as the state requires. But dream on if you think Britain's alone in being so tightly controlled. We don't demand the resignation of the chair of the Intelligence and Security Committee when he oversees GCHQ's illegal mass surveillance of the population. When he tries to snaffle a few quid off a non-existent company (and makes himself a security risk in the process), we're a bit more upset and he has to go. Demanding apologies and resignations has become a national sport, so it's odd that we didn't apply that to the ISC. What the heck, come on in officer, yes of course you can track my movements, monitor my communications, eavesdrop if you want to. Do you want to search my house, I've nothing to hide? Oh, wait a minute, yes I have, it's called my private life and it's nothing to do with you, so f*** off out of it! On a related topic, I have no interest in awards but was still delighted to see "CitizenFour" win the best documentary Oscar. Anyone that hasn't seen it, I urge them to catch it on 4OD in the next week. It's outstanding and deeply disturbing (or should be). Technology is making slaves of us all and too few of us seem to care. [Bloody hell trevh, you would go and get me started on this ..... ] I think it's fair to say the horse has already bolted on this one. And most people I know seem to dedicate a large part of their life to reporting their every move publicly anyway. Between twitter, facebook and pinterest people's self obsession falls not far short of announcing their bowel movements. I'd say the horse is still at the stable door, maybe shuffling its hooves restlessly! The current obsession with reporting one's own thoughts and movements is still voluntary. It doesn't have to become any more than that if we make the effort to resist it. Making our politicians hold the intelligence services to account, rather than just parrot the words "national security" at every turn, would be a good place to start.
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 26, 2015 18:03:37 GMT 1
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 26, 2015 18:36:30 GMT 1
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Post by staffordshrew on Feb 26, 2015 18:45:57 GMT 1
There is a drone with his name on it on the way as soon as he is located.
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Post by buryshrew on Feb 26, 2015 18:51:16 GMT 1
I think it's fair to say the horse has already bolted on this one. And most people I know seem to dedicate a large part of their life to reporting their every move publicly anyway. Between twitter, facebook and pinterest people's self obsession falls not far short of announcing their bowel movements. I'd say the horse is still at the stable door, maybe shuffling its hooves restlessly! The current obsession with reporting one's own thoughts and movements is still voluntary. It doesn't have to become any more than that if we make the effort to resist it. Making our politicians hold the intelligence services to account, rather than just parrot the words "national security" at every turn, would be a good place to start. I'm right with you in principle, but am I being overly cynical in believing that while they continue to push the legal boundaries further, they look wherever the hell they want to anyway?
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 19:08:12 GMT 1
I'd say the horse is still at the stable door, maybe shuffling its hooves restlessly! The current obsession with reporting one's own thoughts and movements is still voluntary. It doesn't have to become any more than that if we make the effort to resist it. Making our politicians hold the intelligence services to account, rather than just parrot the words "national security" at every turn, would be a good place to start. I'm right with you in principle, but am I being overly cynical in believing that while they continue to push the legal boundaries further, they look wherever the hell they want to anyway? I don't know. I think there's a measure of oversight but suspect the intelligence services push at an open door when they want more. Seems counter intuitive but the commercial world might be our best hope. The authorities might have shot themselves in the foot by making the internet insecure. If users could find ISPs etc that hadn't colluded with the intelligence agencies then a flight from the big US corporations, coupled with continuing civil liberties lobbying, could change the picture. I live in hope, otherwise I might be tempted to go off-grid!
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Post by mattmw on Feb 26, 2015 19:21:58 GMT 1
There is a drone with his name on it on the way as soon as he is located. With the USA's track record I'd be very scared if I was Jilted John right now
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Post by Red Rose In Exile on Feb 26, 2015 19:28:05 GMT 1
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Post by Pilch on Feb 26, 2015 20:09:18 GMT 1
it does matter though doesn't it
he tried to hide his identity and failed
if it prevents other wannabe nutters who think they will remain anonymous that its serves a purpose
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 20:27:22 GMT 1
The pressure group Cage announce that Jilted John was radicalised by the British security services, so that's what you do then go and behead innocent people.
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Post by buryshrew on Feb 26, 2015 20:29:10 GMT 1
The pressure group Cage announce that Jilted John was radicalised by the British security services, so that's what you do then go and behead innocent people. and all because Julie dumped him for Gordon.
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Post by venceremos on Feb 26, 2015 21:10:53 GMT 1
The pressure group Cage announce that Jilted John was radicalised by the British security services, so that's what you do then go and behead innocent people. Yes, bit of a stretch that. Nevertheless, we're not going to get through this simply believing we're always the good guys and anyone supporting ISIS must be a murderous psychopath. ISIS has to be alienated and that means winning hearts and minds - not just here but in the Middle East itself. Don't see how it would happen but I'd rather we caught this guy than killed him. A lot could be learned about radicalisation from interrogating him and that might save lives in future. Either way it won't make any difference to ISIS. He's good PR for those that might follow - a western voice against the west - but he's not a leader and his death or capture won't affect them. All these "key figures" from al Qaeda, Taliban, ISIS, al Shabab etc that have been killed and we're no nearer "winning". It'll take a lot more than that.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2015 21:58:04 GMT 1
****s given about knowing his name........... None
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Post by GrizzlyShrew on Feb 27, 2015 1:57:59 GMT 1
The pressure group Cage announce that Jilted John was radicalised by the British security services, so that's what you do then go and behead innocent people. and all because Julie dumped him for Gordon. That Gordon was a moron..................
Just cos he's better looking than me, just cos he's cool and trendy........................
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 27, 2015 4:58:10 GMT 1
As you maybe aware I live in SE Asia. I can assure you that ANYTHING made here or in China have no royalties paid to anyone. You can't even buy an original DVD movie here if you wanted to. All shops selling movies or computer games sell only counterfeit copies. Nobody got a penny in royalties from my Guy Fawkes mask. Regarding the "blame game " of who caused his radicalisation, I do think that the Security Services have been at best a little naive to say the least, believing that by harassing or threatening them they can "turn" these people, trying to make them informers or double agents. Watch them by all means, but don't think you can turn them back. They are religious fanatics who do not think or reason like the rest of us. Anyone who can cut the head off another human being with a knife cannot be reasoned with. I don't know what the answer is, but you are not going to beat them by bombing them back to the stone age, or having any number of drone attacks, they just dont care. Putting my Genghis Khan / Attilla the Hun head on, I would ship all the families of any radicialised Briton, or immigrant, out of the UK, with no right of appeal, and put them onto a deserted beach in Syria. Let all their families live with them in this Islamic utopia. Let the socialist, lefty, tree hugger comments commence......................
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 10:14:11 GMT 1
I find your last sentence strange have you been reading the DM to much? So if they slightly disagree they get shot down with a label. Jihad John and IS have far more in common with right wing fanatics due to their views on women and intolerance of anything outside there own circle. While were labeling people for a view lets start with DM readers. There are some who believe that DM advocates are often closet Paedophiles who hide behind ''outrage'' to mask their taste. They also spend an awful lot of time in SE Asia particularly Bangkok. Is that fair?
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Post by ssshrew on Feb 27, 2015 10:54:46 GMT 1
Seems to me if he is located, he will have far more to worry about from the Jordanians than us. They don't mess about wringing their hands and worrying about his 'rights', they get on with it. Oh and they probably have more manpower than we have following our wonderful government cuts in our defence forces.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Feb 27, 2015 11:07:05 GMT 1
he tried to hide his identity and failed I was of the 'what does it matter that we know his real name' thinking but I think that's a very good point.
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trevh
Midland League Division Two
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt
Posts: 199
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Post by trevh on Feb 27, 2015 16:43:43 GMT 1
I find your last sentence strange have you been reading the DM to much? So if they slightly disagree they get shot down with a label. Jihad John and IS have far more in common with right wing fanatics due to their views on women and intolerance of anything outside there own circle. While were labeling people for a view lets start with DM readers. There are some who believe that DM advocates are often closet Paedophiles who hide behind ''outrage'' to mask their taste. They also spend an awful lot of time in SE Asia particularly Bangkok. Is that fair? I'm sorry, DM ? Is that Daily Mail or Daily Mirror or am I totally off track? To read either would be good, as I haven't even seen a British newspaper in more than 6 years, so the answer to that is no, I have not been reading them TOO much. Your geography also confused me somewhat, presumably alluding to me hanging around Bangkok. I live in Sri Lanka, 1497 miles from Bangkok. It is like me saying you hang around the streets of Hamburg, which is half the distance from you that I am to Bangkok.(Shrewsbury -Hamburg 755 miles). I live in Sri Lanka because my wife is Sri Lankan. So that probably also stops you also accusing me of being a racist, although I don't quite follow your logic which accuses me of being a "closet Paedophile" because I live in SE Asia? I assume you are not even aware of the geography and scale of distance of SE Asia? Using your same logic, does that make everyone who lives in Australia a convict? Or everyone who lives in your street a moron just because they are your neighbours? Why so upset about a label of socialist, left wing tree hugger, unless the cap fits? At least I didn't call you a paedophile! To make it simple for your obviously limited intelligence, I will break it down and explain without using big words. The last sentence in my previous post, which you seem so upset about, was written because I believed that my comments about enforced removal of families of people who have left the UK to fight Jihad, would upset many left wing, tree huggers, by ignoring the family's Human Rights. WTF you are going on about paedophiles for on a thread talking about radicalised Muslims going off to fight Jihad, f**K knows. If you still don't understand what I was saying I could always go out and buy some wax crayons and draw you pictures........I could also buy you a geography book as well as you have obviously never read one!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2015 19:48:25 GMT 1
I find your last sentence strange have you been reading the DM to much? So if they slightly disagree they get shot down with a label. Jihad John and IS have far more in common with right wing fanatics due to their views on women and intolerance of anything outside there own circle. While were labeling people for a view lets start with DM readers. There are some who believe that DM advocates are often closet Paedophiles who hide behind ''outrage'' to mask their taste. They also spend an awful lot of time in SE Asia particularly Bangkok. Is that fair? I'm sorry, DM ? Is that Daily Mail or Daily Mirror or am I totally off track? To read either would be good, as I haven't even seen a British newspaper in more than 6 years, so the answer to that is no, I have not been reading them TOO much. Your geography also confused me somewhat, presumably alluding to me hanging around Bangkok. I live in Sri Lanka, 1497 miles from Bangkok. It is like me saying you hang around the streets of Hamburg, which is half the distance from you that I am to Bangkok.(Shrewsbury -Hamburg 755 miles). I live in Sri Lanka because my wife is Sri Lankan. So that probably also stops you also accusing me of being a racist, although I don't quite follow your logic which accuses me of being a "closet Paedophile" because I live in SE Asia? I assume you are not even aware of the geography and scale of distance of SE Asia? Using your same logic, does that make everyone who lives in Australia a convict? Or everyone who lives in your street a moron just because they are your neighbours? Why so upset about a label of socialist, left wing tree hugger, unless the cap fits? At least I didn't call you a paedophile! To make it simple for your obviously limited intelligence, I will break it down and explain without using big words. The last sentence in my previous post, which you seem so upset about, was written because I believed that my comments about enforced removal of families of people who have left the UK to fight Jihad, would upset many left wing, tree huggers, by ignoring the family's Human Rights. WTF you are going on about paedophiles for on a thread talking about radicalised Muslims going off to fight Jihad, f**K knows. If you still don't understand what I was saying I could always go out and buy some wax crayons and draw you pictures........I could also buy you a geography book as well as you have obviously never read one! So you are fine criticizing and labelling someone as a left wing, socialist tree hugger as they disagree with what you write but are not OK when someone does the same to you? If you want to play the labeling game why cannot others do it without any information or any knowledge of that person? You can even label them before they write it. If you going to write like a frothy mouth DM, reader then I will use narrow minded views on who you are. And you never mentioned Sri Lanka once.
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