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Post by jonbond on Dec 19, 2014 21:38:38 GMT 1
I work with people who rush home at 5 pm to get in and watch coronation street. I'm not judging anyone, if that's what you enjoy then fair play. I'm happy to work extra time that's what I enjoy Well good for you. And I am absolutely sure that your employer is equally happy for you to work 35 hours a week without pay for the sheer privilege of producing profits for him and his company. Meanwhile your family time, your social life and your personal relationships all take a substantial battering because you are happy to be abused by an unscrupulous employer Perhaps your colleagues rush home at 5pm to spend time with their spouses and children. Wierdo's . Millions of people work beyond their exact hours and shouldn't be patronised or denigrated for doing so. Many teachers do so with after school clubs, lesson planning etc, plus all the farmers , self employed etc Socialism failed in the 70s, it ain't coming back sunshine . Your comrades at firms like British leyland saw to that when we were the sick man of Europe
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Post by jamo on Dec 19, 2014 21:43:58 GMT 1
It's not abuse by my employer there is no pressure for me to work on, I can leave at 5pm no questions asked. No spouse. No children " I would say the majority of Brits are lazy in respect of doing the absolute minimal required." oh, I see. Because you are happy to "work on" that means that the majority of Brits are lazy. Pretty insulting.
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Post by jamo on Dec 19, 2014 21:46:12 GMT 1
It's an intereting concept that a self employed person can work beyond their hours, Is it not ?
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Post by mattmw on Dec 19, 2014 22:02:14 GMT 1
Working a 70 hour week when you should be doing 37? I do hope you aren't a lorry driver!!
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Post by jonbond on Dec 19, 2014 22:11:30 GMT 1
It's an intereting concept that a self employed person can work beyond their hours, Is it not ? Not really . Someone who runs a shop that's open 9-5 will have to work beyond that no doubt . And the harder they work and better they do will have a knock on effect in terms of job creation , tax revenues .
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 19, 2014 22:38:39 GMT 1
I am that rarity a left wing Eurosceptic - as opposed to Europhobe, which I think is the correct description for much of the parliamentary Conservative party.
You stay in the EU then you have to sign up to the freedom of movement of goods, capital and labour - irrespective of the mandate given to you by your national electorate and what policy you want to have in your country.
Also you stay in the EU and eventually you will become part of the Euro - that is the direction of travel and logic of the process - and losing the power of being a currency issuer is a terrible throwing in of the towel - as is it's barsteward brother balanced budgets.
If the EU wasn't a bosses club then ordinary working people in the south of Europe wouldn't have been sacrificed in the name of the European project over the last 6 years.
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Post by jonbond on Dec 19, 2014 23:40:17 GMT 1
Most true socialists should be eurosceptic
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Post by Jonah on Dec 20, 2014 0:57:41 GMT 1
bloody hell Jamo not posted on here for ages but good to see your still a dinasour ??
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Post by mattmw on Dec 20, 2014 1:21:45 GMT 1
It's an intereting concept that a self employed person can work beyond their hours, Is it not ? Not really . Someone who runs a shop that's open 9-5 will have to work beyond that no doubt . And the harder they work and better they do will have a knock on effect in terms of job creation , tax revenues . Think he meant that someone who is self employed doesn't have a contract with an employer to work set hours, so whether they work more or less than the standard working week is their decision alone.
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Post by Hatfieldshrew on Dec 20, 2014 6:43:10 GMT 1
Working a 70 hour week when you should be doing 37? I do hope you aren't a lorry driver!! We didn't sign up to the working time directive, which limits the amount of time we can work. And for lorry drivers it as long as they don't drive over time, they can work doing overthings for as many hours as the empolyer wants. Were I work most of the drivers do 10 -12 hour days, but none of them drive for over 8 hours of that day.
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Post by jamo on Dec 20, 2014 9:30:27 GMT 1
bloody hell Jamo not posted on here for ages but good to see your still a dinasour ?? ah, mention workers rights and along pops an employer ? Nothing dinosaurian about it Jonah, it's about fairness and rights. But I did also take exception the the wildly inaccurate statement that all British workers were idle and not prepared to work- which is what NorthWest Shrew implied.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Dec 20, 2014 10:06:18 GMT 1
bloody hell Jamo not posted on here for ages but good to see your still a dinasour ?? ah, mention workers rights and along pops an employer ? Nothing dinosaurian about it Jonah, it's about fairness and rights. But I did also take exception the the wildly inaccurate statement that all British workers were idle and not prepared to work- which is what NorthWest Shrew implied. Agree. Always struggled to understand why people come to this conclusion. Perhaps because people live and work in Britain it goes without saying that the vast majority of lazy people they encounter will be Brits. I mean the majority of lazy people I come across are Germans (and by that I don't mean people who simply do their job but people who genuinely try and skive)...but of course that's because I live and work in Germany. But then I wouldn't go implying that because of that Germans are lazier than Brits. If people suggest to me that East Europeans are better workers than Brits (who they deem to be lazy) I'd suggest they venture over to Eastern Europe for a bit. I've no doubt they'll encounter just as many 'lazy' people over there as in the UK.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 10:12:52 GMT 1
Socialism failed in the 70s And capitalism failed in every other decade before or since unless you belong to a relatively small section of society who did, and continue to make, a nice little profit from the sweat and exploitation of others. Oh how those pigs squealed at the thought of a minimum wage! For lazy, read easier to exploit and abuse.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 20, 2014 11:02:11 GMT 1
"There are 57 varieties of capitalism" - Hyman Minsky.
In other words the proposition that there is no alternative is incorrect. Each country has its own institutions which are more or less unique.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 11:59:59 GMT 1
We all know that for any organisation to be successful, whether it is public or private, employees have to work outside their contract.
We all do that extra bit without realising it half the time.
Basically employers are relying on employee’s goodwill. That goodwill can be removed during a dispute and is an effective tool to get management around the table.
Management soon realise how much gets done and how much they take the workforce for granted.
Another useful tool in dispute are the directives from the EU that protect worker rights from the worst excesses of unscrupulous employers. Collectively or individually.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 19:29:45 GMT 1
having employed quite a few people, there are the types who will always clock on smack on time do there job to a standard and go home smack on time, if you ask for a little flexibility, they always ask about time and a half, err no way mate I only get paid for this and for that, but then when they want an afternoon off or a bit of flexibility there way and you say no, then the boss is the biggest walking and only exploiting the work force, you know the type Jamo??
Then you get the second type, that when you ask for a bit of flexibility, they are more than willing to assist, and when they want it back, you as the boss are happy to help, its called looking after each other. During the summer my office manager has loads to do, and really does put in the hours, well more than she is paid for, but she does so without complaint, gets paid for every hour she works, but only at normal rate. During the winter, she hardly works the hours she is paid for, but she is not deducted a penny for this, but as she helps (although paid) so much with flexibility. This week alone she has been late a couple of times, had an afternoon off to see her kids nativity play all at my expense, and there are loads of companies out there that allow the same flexibility.
this is interpreted incorrectly most of the times as exploitation by Jamo and his merry bunch of union followers, but I would put my last dollar that in most cases with small and medium employers, that it weighs very much in the favour of the employee.
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Post by jamo on Dec 20, 2014 19:48:22 GMT 1
this is interpreted incorrectly most of the times as exploitation by Jamo and his merry bunch of union followers, but I would put my last dollar that in most cases with small and medium employers, that it weighs very much in the favour of the employee. Good for you Downie, you sound like a model employer. Hopefully by recognising that you have an employee working well in excess of their hours you may consider increasing your workforce, but I guess you've already thought of that. You will of course understand that there are very many who are not and who use the "give and take" analogy merely to mask their exploitation of a workforce that in many cases has no alternative. And surely you will understand the shameful treatment of a workforce that is systematically employed by multi nationals like Sports Soccer and Amazon et al. your comment about 'the merry bunch of union followers ' is of course nonsense and merely designed to deflect from the weakness of your argument. Plenty of really good successful companies in this country are non unionised and yet treat their employees with respect and fairness. As is usually the case those that don't squeal the loudest about lazy staff and workers rights. I've got a spare cap here, I'll drop it off for you.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 23, 2014 23:02:05 GMT 1
I go to work on time. Do my job to a standard and go home on time. And don't ask for any flexibility. I'm neither better nor worse thought of. And neither is my employer as far as I am concerned. For a small business it is an odd detached relationship. But it works as far and as well as it can. If I worked there to retirement I'd think that I have paid my debt to society and walk away without a backward glance.
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Post by shrewinjapan on Dec 24, 2014 2:36:29 GMT 1
I would say the majority of Brits are lazy in respect of doing the absolute minimal required. I'm supposed to work 40 hour weeks but on average I work 75 hour weeks, no overtime payment. The vast majority of friends make comments like "you must be mad, wouldn't catch me doing that" i do a job I enjoy so it's much easier. Do you have days off? If you work a 5 day week then 75 hours a week is 15 hours a day, so you must be working something like from 9 until 12 (or longer if you have lunch and dinner). Even if you work 6 days a week then it would need to be from 9 until 9. Pressure or not, completely voluntarily or not, any employer who allows their staff to do that is a disgrace. And in my opinion it is ridiculous to insinuate that "only" being willing to work 35 or 40 hours a week somehow makes someone lazy!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2014 12:31:50 GMT 1
I would say the majority of Brits are lazy in respect of doing the absolute minimal required. I'm supposed to work 40 hour weeks but on average I work 75 hour weeks, no overtime payment. The vast majority of friends make comments like "you must be mad, wouldn't catch me doing that" i do a job I enjoy so it's much easier. You do make us all jealous when you post cool photos on facebook Joey lad that's sure
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