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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 18:15:19 GMT 1
With a bit of lick young George will be a bit of modern history quite soon.
I watched his performance in the House and he looked well sorted , lots of licking of the lips ( something Cameron can't do because he hasn't got any ) and eye rolling. Looked to be as if he had been on the Columbian Marching powder again .
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2014 18:53:04 GMT 1
With a bit of lick young George will be a bit of modern history quite soon. I watched his performance in the House and he looked well sorted , lots of licking of the lips ( something Cameron can't do because he hasn't got any ) and eye rolling. Looked to be as if he had been on the Columbian Marching powder again . ...and thank you for your wonderful insight into the world of politics and the national debt. Seems like it's all down to eye-rolling and lip licking. You Economic Genius you.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 6, 2014 0:19:15 GMT 1
It's Mrs Thatchers fault. She used the notion that government debt is the same as household debt as a political slogan and the simplistic idea seems to have lodged firmly with politicians, especially Tories. It's a conveniently easy idea to sell to the general population, most of whom are economically illiterate - including myself. Interesting that Osborne is not an economist, his degree is in modern history Economics as an academic subject worthy of study is in a serious crisis. This is a terrific radio programme: Teaching Economics After the Crash on this very point. You study economics and you will have your knowledge framed very much so that you would state that all of the following statements are true: 1) Just like a household the UK government has to finance its spending out of income or through borrowing. 2) The role of taxes is to provide finance for government spending. 3) The UK Government borrows money from the priavte sector to finance the budget. 4) By running budget surpluses the UK government takes pressure off interest rates because more funds are then available for private sector investment projects. 5) Persistent budget deficits will burden future generations with inflation and higher taxes. 6) By running budget surpluses now the UK government will help build up the funds necessary to cope with the ageing population in the future. In fact every one of those propositions are false. Besides the household analogy the other far-reaching fallacy is the downward sloping demand curve. People relate to it because if something costs more they will buy less. But that is one individual purchasing in one market. It isn't simply the case that you add all the individual purchase decisions at various prices and there is your downward sloping supply. Instead, when people change their purchasing patterns that, in turn changes income flows in the economy. This is called the Sonnenschein Mantel Debreu Theorem
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 6, 2014 0:26:54 GMT 1
The pressure for private sector borrowing to increase is because the UK government is seeking to reduce the private sector's surplus vis-a-vis itself, and because its expenditure decisions have an impact upon how the surplus is distributed. UK Government deficits have been a filip to private sector balance sheet repair.
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Post by atcham jack on Dec 6, 2014 12:22:55 GMT 1
Coalition cocked economy and NHS up big time. only 40% of cuts made in spite of 5 yrs of cut backs. hearing aids and operations now rationed in Devon, all coming to a county like yours. good old labour. next 5 years horrendous, do not be ill if Tories or Us**t win
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Post by shrewder on Dec 6, 2014 12:32:10 GMT 1
Coalition cocked economy and NHS up big time. only 40% of cuts made in spite of 5 yrs of cut backs. hearing aids and operations now rationed in Devon, all coming to a county like yours. good old labour. next 5 years horrendous, do not be ill if Tories or Us**t win Hearing aid service excellent in Worcestershire .
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Post by staffordshrew on Dec 9, 2014 0:00:35 GMT 1
Not even reached half time on spending cuts: might be if we do the decent thing and chuck this lot out!
We need an agenda that includes: an end to zero hours contracts apprentice/intern paid and government sponsored jobs for graduates as well as school leavers
a living wage
decent benefits for decent, hardworking people if they are poorly paid, or become sick or disabled.
Let's make this country Great again, not a creation of the snivelling little creeps that include Cameron and Osbourne
May be time to leave the E.U. unless we are given an excellent deal.
And what sort of hypocrite is Alex Salmond? Wanted out of the union but now, apparently, ready to stand for election as a Westminster MP.
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Post by neilsalop on Dec 9, 2014 9:04:24 GMT 1
Not even reached half time on spending cuts: might be if we do the decent thing and chuck this lot out! We need an agenda that includes: an end to zero hours contracts apprentice/intern paid and government sponsored jobs for graduates as well as school leavers a living wage decent benefits for decent, hardworking people if they are poorly paid, or become sick or disabled. Let's make this country Great again, not a creation of the snivelling little creeps that include Cameron and Osbourne May be time to leave the E.U. unless we are given an excellent deal. And what sort of hypocrite is Alex Salmond? Wanted out of the union but now, apparently, ready to stand for election as a Westminster MP. I too would love to live in this Utopia, but with the current bunch in and the useless opposition who do you think we should vote for? Tories will continue to serve their buddies in big business. Labour are also keen on cuts and austerity, as long as it us oiks that are facing the cuts. Lib-Dems are a spent force and will lucky to 5% of the vote. UKIP are just a more right wing version of the Tories. Voting Green myself. I don't agree with all of their policies, but at least I feel that they actually want to leave more money in my pocket and at least the NHS would be safe.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2014 10:58:13 GMT 1
I don't agree with all of their policies, but at least I feel that they actually want to leave more money in my pocket and at least the NHS would be safe. [ I get your point Neil, but in reality, how is voting green ever going to result in you having more money in your pocket or safeguard the NHS? Even if (in some strange upside down world) they held the balance of power, I'm sure that like their close friends the lib dems they would quickly forget their principles and sell their ring peice for a sniff of power.
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Post by neilsalop on Dec 9, 2014 11:29:03 GMT 1
I don't agree with all of their policies, but at least I feel that they actually want to leave more money in my pocket and at least the NHS would be safe. [ I get your point Neil, but in reality, how is voting green ever going to result in you having more money in your pocket or safeguard the NHS? Even if (in some strange upside down world) they held the balance of power, I'm sure that like their close friends the lib dems they would quickly forget their principles and sell their ring peice for a sniff of power. Well for a start they certainly wouldn't buddy up with the effin' Tories and even if they had to sell a little bit of their soul to your lot to get a Labour / Green coalition and maybe go some way to protecting your employer would that be a bad thing? Also they are the only anti-austerity party out there, so I could reasonably expect to be at least no worse off and the councils etc would be able to provide services without having to go for the lowest bid, which if I'm not mistaken is driving wages down.
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Post by Uncle_Monkey on Dec 9, 2014 16:07:57 GMT 1
As always with Osborne's failures, he will put it down to "the mess we were left with by the previous government". I truly hope that he and his chums are soon to be referred to as "the previous government". I found this clip of the Coalition heading out to work... Superb - some interesting and informative posts in this thread - but I have to say yours is the most enjoyable! I love Stan & Ollie
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Post by El Presidente on Dec 11, 2014 14:27:11 GMT 1
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Post by jamo on Dec 11, 2014 15:43:56 GMT 1
I Read this this morning and genuinely felt sick. Jesus what hope of an alternative is there when the leader of The Labour Party is coming out with this nonsense ? Really feel like sending Ed my membership card with a nice hand written note. Miliband, Clegg and Cameron, were we ever so poorly served at the heads of our political parties ? As for the cuts, for those of us living in Shropshure stand by for utter devestation of services in 2015
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Post by shrewder on Dec 11, 2014 16:12:43 GMT 1
Not sure what to vote here in Worcester. Probably vote for who is most likely to keep Farage's lot out. The type of candidates they put forward do at times give cause for concern
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Post by Minormorris64 on Dec 11, 2014 17:34:43 GMT 1
I Read this this morning and genuinely felt sick. Jesus what hope of an alternative is there when the leader of The Labour Party is coming out with this nonsense ? Really feel like sending Ed my membership card with a nice hand written note. Surely not ?, is that the sound of a very large penny dropping ?
David of Millibond where art thou ?
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Post by jamo on Dec 11, 2014 20:25:10 GMT 1
I Read this this morning and genuinely felt sick. Jesus what hope of an alternative is there when the leader of The Labour Party is coming out with this nonsense ? Really feel like sending Ed my membership card with a nice hand written note. Surely not ?, is that the sound of a very large penny dropping ?
Quite possibly. However hope springs eternal but perhaps hope is standing in the doorway and is about to leave the building all together.
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Post by El Presidente on Dec 11, 2014 20:34:10 GMT 1
It is shocking that there really is no representation within Parliament, of the differing opinions amongst the electorate.
I can only assume the whole reason Nu Labore are spouting the 'cuts' message is because of the rather splendid job this current lot have done of selling to us plebs that the deficit is bad; and that it's all the fault of the red rose (not the house of Lancaster, the house of the Elitists).
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 11, 2014 21:36:55 GMT 1
The Labour party is irretrievably ****ed and hasn't had my vote in a General Election this century. The nonsense spouted by Ed Miliband (and David Miliband is no less capable of it) Reminded me to sign this petition:
Withholding consent
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Post by shrewsace on Dec 11, 2014 22:07:09 GMT 1
No surprises here, Labour were boasting about 'swingeing cuts' before the last general election.
Under Labour we probably wouldn't have seen unemployed and disabled benefit claimants pursued with quite such draconian relish, the NHS might not have been sold off to the likes of Virgin and Circle (at least not quite to the same extent) and teachers may have been spared the worst of Gove's free schools/academies programme.
But really, we're talking about s**t in slightly different shades of brown.
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Post by El Presidente on Dec 11, 2014 23:19:58 GMT 1
The Labour party is irretrievably ****ed and hasn't had my vote in a General Election this century. The nonsense spouted by Ed Miliband (and David Miliband is no less capable of it) Reminded me to sign this petition:
Withholding consentSigned.
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Post by mattmw on Dec 12, 2014 1:24:09 GMT 1
No surprises here, Labour were boasting about 'swingeing cuts' before the last general election. Under Labour we probably wouldn't have seen unemployed and disabled benefit claimants pursued with quite such draconian relish, the NHS might not have been sold off to the likes of Virgin and Circle (at least not quite to the same extent) and teachers may have been spared the worst of Gove's free schools/academies programme. But really, we're talking about s**t in slightly different shades of brown. My feelings too. New Labour provides a slightly fluffier right wing belief in the free market and private finance that is mildly more acceptable than Clegg, Cameron & Fararge flogging the country to their mates in the banking sector. That said I think I'd rather four more years of Tories in charge and have something to really get stuck into and despise than have to look disappointedly at a supposedly Labour leader follow right wing folly and lead us further into the s**t
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 15, 2014 21:11:09 GMT 1
David Cameron warns that Labour will issue an extra 500 billion pounds worth of safe financial assets over the next 20 years for the private sector to include in their portfolios for diversification and liability-matching purposes.
Mail article
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Post by shrewder on Dec 16, 2014 10:17:38 GMT 1
Never underestimate how much of government actions have little to do with politics but advice from senior civil servants on limits of their parameters. Yes minister is still alive and well!!!
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Post by El Presidente on Dec 16, 2014 13:35:09 GMT 1
Deflation inbound?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 19:12:49 GMT 1
It's Mrs Thatchers fault. She used the notion that government debt is the same as household debt as a political slogan and the simplistic idea seems to have lodged firmly with politicians, especially Tories. It's a conveniently easy idea to sell to the general population, most of whom are economically illiterate - including myself. Interesting that Osborne is not an economist, his degree is in modern history Economics as an academic subject worthy of study is in a serious crisis. This is a terrific radio programme: Teaching Economics After the Crash on this very point. You study economics and you will have your knowledge framed very much so that you would state that all of the following statements are true: 1) Just like a household the UK government has to finance its spending out of income or through borrowing. 2) The role of taxes is to provide finance for government spending. 3) The UK Government borrows money from the priavte sector to finance the budget. 4) By running budget surpluses the UK government takes pressure off interest rates because more funds are then available for private sector investment projects. 5) Persistent budget deficits will burden future generations with inflation and higher taxes. 6) By running budget surpluses now the UK government will help build up the funds necessary to cope with the ageing population in the future. In fact every one of those propositions are false. Besides the household analogy the other far-reaching fallacy is the downward sloping demand curve. People relate to it because if something costs more they will buy less. But that is one individual purchasing in one market. It isn't simply the case that you add all the individual purchase decisions at various prices and there is your downward sloping supply. Instead, when people change their purchasing patterns that, in turn changes income flows in the economy. This is called the Sonnenschein Mantel Debreu Theorem Sean, you are obviously an intelligent guy whose knowledge of Economics is excellent. You probably teach or have a degree in the subject. Just, for those of us who are lost in the world of E, can you give us the benefit of your knowledge in a simpler format. I will admit I,m cooking lost with most of your input. Maybe along the lines of Economics for Dummies. The above I can understand, but some of your stuff fries my brain. Thanks mate.
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Post by jamo on Dec 16, 2014 20:38:14 GMT 1
I will admit I,m cooking lost with most of your input. Maybe along the lines of Economics for Dummies. The above I can understand, but some of your stuff fries my brain. Billy Bunkem in Fried Brain shock ! Who'd have thought ?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2014 23:27:30 GMT 1
I know as much about Economics as you do about football. That's flip all then.
You still going out with one of them Cheeky Girls.
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Post by SeanBroseley on Dec 17, 2014 22:25:02 GMT 1
Billy Bunkum's request is a tough task because every day we are told to think about these things in a very different ways. To break out of that thinking requires saturation in other modes of thinking. I do have an Economics degree and I would say that studying an Economics degree is an exercise in the context of this very heavily prescribed framework.
The starting point is to think where does money come from:
Money is created by government spending and banks creating money by lending. The money then moves around the world economy through people buying quantities of services and goods at prevailing prices. It is also taken out of circulation by saving and taxes.
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