|
Post by shrewsace on Nov 24, 2014 21:10:46 GMT 1
On a more serious note I've been talking to CAB and food bank workers about the marked rise in people using food banks over the last 9 month period at work today.
Without exception they have pointed to harsh and often unjust benefit sanctions leaving people with nowhere else to turn.
|
|
|
Post by jamo on Nov 24, 2014 21:44:17 GMT 1
Anyone got any statistics for net emigration from The U.K. for the years 1991- 2012 ? Would help the debate if they could be produced. In 1991 emigration from the UK was 285,000 people per year and this rose steadily to an average of 321,000 a year in 2012 (ONS figures) Thanks for that, really useful. So, if I have got my math right that amounts to 3.135 million emigrants. Very interesting.
|
|
|
Post by QuorndonShrew on Nov 24, 2014 22:06:41 GMT 1
Have we ever had an 'unvetted mass immigration policy' or is that something of an exaggeration? Did Labour 'bring in' zero hour contracts? Not sure about that, would it not be more accurate to say they sprung up during New Labour's time in office? Although admittedly Nu-Labour and its paranoia of being painted as 'anti-business' probably did too little to clamp down on such exploitative practices. Talking of exploitative practices, good to see LSF having a pop at low wages and the driving down of conditions. You should join a union comrade. No race to the bottom! 'Having a pop'? Interesting take on things. I wasn't the one who scoffed at 'middle class Tory Shrewsbury'. What's not to say I'm somebody who is working a low paid job in poor conditions on a zero hours contract? Not far from the truth in all fairness The situation we're in now is an amalgamation of failings by several previous governments, but it's a populist argument from ill-advised people that the Tories are wholly responsible for zero-hours, food banks and the like. I think it would be quite difficult to contend that New Labour weren't anti-business when they decided to tax and pretty much destroy private pension schemes. The party of the working man remember. Neither unions or Labour have ever offered me anything in the private sector so I'd rather sh*t in my hands and clap than join either of them if it's all the same
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2014 22:19:49 GMT 1
What's not to say I'm somebody who is working a low paid job in poor conditions on a zero hours contract? Not far from the truth in all fairness Maybe you should have done something useful at university!
|
|
|
Post by jamo on Nov 24, 2014 22:23:07 GMT 1
What's not to say I'm somebody who is working a low paid job in poor conditions on a zero hours contract? Not far from the truth in all fairness Maybe you should have done something useful at university! He did. Phones don't answer themselves
|
|
|
Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Nov 25, 2014 10:13:07 GMT 1
Without exception they have pointed to harsh and often unjust benefit sanctions leaving people with nowhere else to turn. Oh absolutely. Clients are no longer just people in massive long term debt - they are people receive some sort of benefit, and that benefit gets reviewed or switched, and it leaves them high and dry between one stopping and the other starting. "It will be backdated" says the letter - but backdated won't put food on the table for the next 2-3 weeks.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 13:07:56 GMT 1
I've encounted clients who have previously been re-assessed by organisations such as ATOS, have had their benefit suspended pending the outcome and still been waiting for the assessment result six months down the line. Phone up said organisation with a client and informed that data protection means that this can not be discussed with either the client or allocated worker.
All the time the fall gets deeper and deeper.
Payments are not always backdated. I've had clients admitted to hospital and been sanctioned for not attending meetings? It is really rather criminal and to be honest and merely creates extra work for professionals and volunteers.
CAB centre's closing and losing local authority funding. I have been advised that they are moving towards a signposting service...much like social services!
|
|
|
Post by QuorndonShrew on Nov 26, 2014 17:37:24 GMT 1
Maybe you should have done something useful at university! He did. Phones don't answer themselves Maybe I shouldn't have gone full stop and been one of the many brave boys and girls in the public sector like you
|
|
|
Post by QuorndonShrew on Nov 26, 2014 17:38:20 GMT 1
Maybe you should have done something useful at university! He did. Phones don't answer themselves Confused by this comment.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:49:24 GMT 1
He did. Phones don't answer themselves Maybe I shouldn't have gone full stop and been one of the many brave boys and girls in the public sector like you No , going to university is good, but as you know there are so many wishy washy courses out there that don't lead to proper jobs, and the students just end up in poorly paid jobs with little career progression. You kind of wonder why they bothered.
|
|
|
Post by jamo on Nov 26, 2014 17:57:58 GMT 1
Maybe I shouldn't have gone full stop and been one of the many brave boys and girls in the public sector like you No , going to university is good, but as you know there are so many wishy washy courses out there that don't lead to proper jobs, and the students just end up in poorly paid jobs with little career progression. You kind of wonder why they bothered. Agree with you Pab. Plenty of people employed within the public sector are graduates, and mostly, very good at their jobs there are too
|
|
|
Post by QuorndonShrew on Nov 26, 2014 18:04:03 GMT 1
Maybe I shouldn't have gone full stop and been one of the many brave boys and girls in the public sector like you No , going to university is good, but as you know there are so many wishy washy courses out there that don't lead to proper jobs, and the students just end up in poorly paid jobs with little career progression you kind of wonder why they bothered. I'm not purposely trying to disagree with you here (for a change) but I think we owe much to Labour for cheapening higher education qualifications. It was under Blair that this false idea that University is a right that should be enjoyed by everyone came about and unfortunately as a result many degrees aren't worth the paper they're printed on. The best thing the government did, as far as I'm concerned, was to hike up the tuition fees and put off a lot of people from going to University. Thus hopefully when I get my degree it might one day be worth something again. But the downside of that is people are going through university based on their family wealth rather than on merit or individual talent, which is wrong also.
|
|
|
Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Nov 26, 2014 20:54:09 GMT 1
Getting a better education 'based on family wealth' starts at pre school age, university is the culmination of the process.
Zero hours contracts are a scandal one of the effects of which is to have the state subsidise grasping employers. Rather than argue whether Labour introduced zero hours I'll be looking at their manifesto to see whether they promise to abolish such contracts.
One of the effects of zero hours is if you have a full week of work your income increases so benefits are stopped. If you're not called in the following week there's a gap until the benefits are reinstated. From what I hear, the combination of low wages/benefit reductions are a terrible burden on low paid people who want to work.
I accept that the Unions behaved badly in the 1970s, but the reduction in union power and influence has resulted in an imbalance between the rich, powerful and privileged and the working population which is bad for society in general.
|
|
|
Post by shrewsace on Nov 26, 2014 21:02:41 GMT 1
Have we ever had an 'unvetted mass immigration policy' or is that something of an exaggeration? Did Labour 'bring in' zero hour contracts? Not sure about that, would it not be more accurate to say they sprung up during New Labour's time in office? Although admittedly Nu-Labour and its paranoia of being painted as 'anti-business' probably did too little to clamp down on such exploitative practices. Talking of exploitative practices, good to see LSF having a pop at low wages and the driving down of conditions. You should join a union comrade. No race to the bottom! 'Having a pop'? Interesting take on things. I wasn't the one who scoffed at 'middle class Tory Shrewsbury'. What's not to say I'm somebody who is working a low paid job in poor conditions on a zero hours contract? Not far from the truth in all fairness The situation we're in now is an amalgamation of failings by several previous governments, but it's a populist argument from ill-advised people that the Tories are wholly responsible for zero-hours, food banks and the like. I think it would be quite difficult to contend that New Labour weren't anti-business when they decided to tax and pretty much destroy private pension schemes. The party of the working man remember. Neither unions or Labour have ever offered me anything in the private sector so I'd rather sh*t in my hands and clap than join either of them if it's all the same Not having a pop, tone was slightly tongue-in-cheek given your well known loathing of trade unions, But your acknowledgement that unscrupulous employers will offer the s**ttiest pay and conditions they can get away with is the reason unions remain necessary. New Labour did plenty to p**s me off, but the fact a minimum wage even exists is due to them (and the unions by extension ?) Workers in the private sector benefit from sick pay, paternity pay, paid holidays etc that were all fought for by trade unions, shame that gets forgotten.
|
|
|
Post by jamo on Nov 26, 2014 21:06:40 GMT 1
I accept that the Unions behaved badly in the 1970s, but the reduction in union power and influence has resulted in an imbalance between the rich, powerful and privileged and the working population which is bad for society in general. I think that's right? There are absolutely no checks and balances in place now in far too many workplaces, that then quite naturally gives rise to abuse of power and behaviour that is certainly immoral and in many cases borders on sheer criminality.
|
|
|
Post by atcham jack on Nov 27, 2014 13:33:29 GMT 1
until such time there is a universal living wage, food banks will be permanent features for low paid, benefit receivers and the poorest in society. it should be no shame on those genuinely in need and we owe it to the less well off to keep food banks topped up.
today there was a tweet " do not send Xmas cards donate to your food bank" I hope we can do both.
as for zero hours contracts some people benefit from this like working mothers, others have to have 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet.
|
|