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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 19, 2014 10:26:51 GMT 1
Next referendum should be for independence for the whole of the UK - from Brussels.
Smile off slimy Salmond's face, Gordon back from the dead. It really is better together.
But watch those sneaky Tories, although it sounds reasonable, stopping Scottish, mostly Labour MPs, from voting on English matters swings things towards the Tories.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 19, 2014 10:39:21 GMT 1
So more of the same for Scotland. More of the same for us all. Can't believe they didn't take this opportunity to rid themselves of Westminster, those who run the country for no ones gain but their own and their best chums in big business. Westminster must be chuckling away at all this, seeing the proles and the plebs voting for more of the same. I think in time they'll come to regret this decision but then it'll be too late by then of course. The people really did have it in their hands this time around, to make a huge difference, to vote for change. And they let it go. Schade schade.
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Post by Throbbing Gristle on Sept 19, 2014 10:53:14 GMT 1
Totally agree Stuttgart.
The ancestors of the no voters, what on earth would they think.
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Post by Throbbing Gristle on Sept 19, 2014 11:28:31 GMT 1
Today I have woken up as a proud Scot and proud to be British. Just need Salmon to do the honourable thing and resign and today we be a memorable day for Scotland and United Kingdom. Cameron has made a big political mistake he should have asked Big Gordie to steer through the promised changes. As a Scot, doesn't it feel like you had a country and then 300 years ago were invaded and conquered by the English? Coz as an Englishman that's how it comes across to me. I'm stunned people have voted no. The public here (Sweden) are also very surprised by the result.
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 19, 2014 12:09:44 GMT 1
Couldn't agree more although the implications for us all are huge. However, I have been asking myself for the last day who on earth was responsible for a convicted murderer from Latvia to be allowed into the country. Honestly, it was only necessary in the 18th and 19th centuries to have a criminal record to get into Australia - today with a criminal conviction you wouldn't stand a chance. I despair of us. Those foreign criminals coming over here and taking our criminals jobs eh? No my point is that at the moment he COULD be implicated in the disappearance of a 14 year old girl. We have enough suspect types already in this country. I just didn't realise that we also allowed others in.
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Post by Dancin on Sept 19, 2014 12:52:09 GMT 1
Today I have woken up as a proud Scot and proud to be British. Just need Salmon to do the honourable thing and resign and today we be a memorable day for Scotland and United Kingdom. Cameron has made a big political mistake he should have asked Big Gordie to steer through the promised changes. As a Scot, doesn't it feel like you had a country and then 300 years ago were invaded and conquered by the English? Coz as an Englishman that's how it comes across to me. I'm stunned people have voted no. The public here (Sweden) are also very surprised by the result. You don't think it could of had something to do with who was leading the Yes campaign do you? As shrewed46 has already mentioned Alex Salmond should resign because I'm sure he would of been calling Cameron's head if the vote had gone the other way.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 19, 2014 12:56:25 GMT 1
Totally agree Stuttgart. The ancestors of the no voters, what on earth would they think. But thankfully it wasn't about ancestors - many of whom would have died fighting for the UK anyway - it was a campaign based on the future, not a romanticised, idealised past. And, by and large, it doesn't seem to have been hijacked by a short-term, Tories-out way of thinking. Scotland today has every reason to be proud of conducting such a fundamentally important referendum in such an intelligent and civilised way. It was a genuine democratic triumph that puts most recent political elections here and elsewhere in the west to shame. I have little time for Salmond but he's taken the defeat with dignity. Heaven help me I even find myself in agreement with Farage (a first - and it won't last) when he commented that the referendum turnout demonstrated that people will participate when they have a real choice and not broadly similar political parties to choose from. When people sometimes despair of this country they should remember how well this went and compare it to the strife and civil wars that decide such matters elsewhere in the world.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 19, 2014 13:05:10 GMT 1
Today I have woken up as a proud Scot and proud to be British. Just need Salmon to do the honourable thing and resign and today we be a memorable day for Scotland and United Kingdom. Cameron has made a big political mistake he should have asked Big Gordie to steer through the promised changes. As a Scot, doesn't it feel like you had a country and then 300 years ago were invaded and conquered by the English? Coz as an Englishman that's how it comes across to me. I'm stunned people have voted no. The public here (Sweden) are also very surprised by the result. I don't see why a Scot would think that. The two countries shared the same monarch from 1603 until the union in 1707. When James I took the English throne in 1603, he was already James VI of Scotland, so Scotland provided a monarch for England. That doesn't appear like Scotland was conquered, although England was always going to be the bigger and richer partner.
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Post by QuorndonShrew on Sept 19, 2014 13:06:28 GMT 1
This referendum was no more legitimate or plausible than the one held in Crimea a few months back.
Millions of Scots and the rest of the Union denied the right to vote and Salmand still doesn't get his way.
Let's hope he can now crawl back under his xenophobic rock until its time for him to reappear ahead of Celebrity Big Brother 2015.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 19, 2014 13:07:08 GMT 1
Totally agree Stuttgart. The ancestors of the no voters, what on earth would they think. But thankfully it wasn't about ancestors - many of whom would have died fighting for the UK anyway - it was a campaign based on the future, not a romanticised, idealised past. And, by and large, it doesn't seem to have been hijacked by a short-term, Tories-out way of thinking. Scotland today has every reason to be proud of conducting such a fundamentally important referendum in such an intelligent and civilised way. It was a genuine democratic triumph that puts most recent political elections here and elsewhere in the west to shame. I have little time for Salmond but he's taken the defeat with dignity. Heaven help me I even find myself in agreement with Farage (a first - and it won't last) when he commented that the referendum turnout demonstrated that people will participate when they have a real choice and not broadly similar political parties to choose from. When people sometimes despair of this country they should remember how well this went and compare it to the strife and civil wars that decide such matters elsewhere in the world. I don't think anyone would doubt that the way the vote was conducted was something the country of Scotland can be proud of. It was indeed (for the most part) a very intelligent and civilised process. A triumph for democracy indeed. I doubt anyone thought it would be any different. Superb to see so many people involved too. What will surprise a few, myself included, is the result. I've seen it said and written a fair few times that this whole process will have caused anti-Scottish sentiment in England. I'm not sure that's the case at all. I do however, think many people South of the border will see the Scots differently today.
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Post by Dancin on Sept 19, 2014 13:14:07 GMT 1
Let's hope he can now crawl back under his xenophobic rock until its time for him to reappear ahead of Celebrity Big Brother 2015. LOL
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Post by mrbunny on Sept 19, 2014 13:24:16 GMT 1
As a Scot, doesn't it feel like you had a country and then 300 years ago were invaded and conquered by the English? Coz as an Englishman that's how it comes across to me. I'm stunned people have voted no. The public here (Sweden) are also very surprised by the result. You don't think it could of had something to do with who was leading the Yes campaign do you? As shrewed46 has already mentioned Alex Salmond should resign because I'm sure he would of been calling Cameron's head if the vote had gone the other way. No way would Salmond resign, only a genuine man would do that and he isn't one. Shrewed said Gordon Brown should be the man to run the plan for changes, while I agree it would be a good idea there is no way the Tories would allow that. Brown's speech the other day was bloody good though, why didn't he show that passion when he was leading? May have won him an election if he had.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 19, 2014 14:24:12 GMT 1
This referendum was no more legitimate or plausible than the one held in Crimea a few months back. Why not?
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Post by mattmw on Sept 19, 2014 15:58:15 GMT 1
I don't quite see why the result should lead to Salmond to resign? Clearly a yes vote was what his party wanted, but roll back to when the vote was announced and the Yes campaign has come a very long way.
Arguably the SNP have got much of what they wanted thanks to the panic measures the No campaign agreed to last week, and in a years time the Scottish nation will have far more powers politically than they have had for 300 years.
Certainly the vote has robbed the SNP of their goal but arguably Salmond has been way more successful over the last couple of years than Cameron, Clegg and Milliband has been, and he's now left them having to sell the deal to the rest of the UK
Seems in many ways he's got the better end of the deal.
EDIT: scrap the above he's just resigned as leader!
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Post by mrbunny on Sept 19, 2014 16:27:29 GMT 1
Didn't expect him to resign. Interesting times ahead then.
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unclebob
Midland League Division Two
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Post by unclebob on Sept 19, 2014 16:53:10 GMT 1
Didn't expect him to resign. Interesting times ahead then. Fair play to him for having some sort of honour although I'd rather hw had stayed on, that dreadful blond woman is going to take over and she is just awful.
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Post by venceremos on Sept 19, 2014 17:02:58 GMT 1
Good points mattmw. The yes campaign may have lost but the Scottish nationalist cause has undoubtedly been advanced by the referendum. For that reason, I think Salmond would have been justified in continuing, although it is a good time for a change. Let someone else make sure Cameron and his successors deliver.
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Post by Matster on Sept 19, 2014 17:30:51 GMT 1
But thankfully it wasn't about ancestors - many of whom would have died fighting for the UK anyway - it was a campaign based on the future, not a romanticised, idealised past. And, by and large, it doesn't seem to have been hijacked by a short-term, Tories-out way of thinking. Scotland today has every reason to be proud of conducting such a fundamentally important referendum in such an intelligent and civilised way. It was a genuine democratic triumph that puts most recent political elections here and elsewhere in the west to shame. I have little time for Salmond but he's taken the defeat with dignity. Heaven help me I even find myself in agreement with Farage (a first - and it won't last) when he commented that the referendum turnout demonstrated that people will participate when they have a real choice and not broadly similar political parties to choose from. When people sometimes despair of this country they should remember how well this went and compare it to the strife and civil wars that decide such matters elsewhere in the world. I don't think anyone would doubt that the way the vote was conducted was something the country of Scotland can be proud of. It was indeed (for the most part) a very intelligent and civilised process. A triumph for democracy indeed. I doubt anyone thought it would be any different. Superb to see so many people involved too. What will surprise a few, myself included, is the result. I've seen it said and written a fair few times that this whole process will have caused anti-Scottish sentiment in England. I'm not sure that's the case at all. I do however, think many people South of the border will see the Scots differently today. a Scottish friend of mine told me she'd been abused online for supporting the no vote and told me that an 80 year old man was followed home and jeered all of the way after being asked which way he was voting. Many No voters just seemed to keep quiet as it was safer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 19:09:53 GMT 1
Those foreign criminals coming over here and taking our criminals jobs eh? No my point is that at the moment he COULD be implicated in the disappearance of a 14 year old girl. We have enough suspect types already in this country. I just didn't realise that we also allowed others in. Sorry I was just being facetious.
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Post by stuttgartershrew on Sept 19, 2014 19:19:31 GMT 1
I don't think anyone would doubt that the way the vote was conducted was something the country of Scotland can be proud of. It was indeed (for the most part) a very intelligent and civilised process. A triumph for democracy indeed. I doubt anyone thought it would be any different. Superb to see so many people involved too. What will surprise a few, myself included, is the result. I've seen it said and written a fair few times that this whole process will have caused anti-Scottish sentiment in England. I'm not sure that's the case at all. I do however, think many people South of the border will see the Scots differently today. a Scottish friend of mine told me she'd been abused online for supporting the no vote and told me that an 80 year old man was followed home and jeered all of the way after being asked which way he was voting. Many No voters just seemed to keep quiet as it was safer. I guess you didn't get the gist of my post... But to your comment. Sure, I think the No were very much the favourites to win. I think everyone suspected that the silent majority were going to vote to stay within the UK.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 19:30:02 GMT 1
It's not surprising that Salmond has quit. He dedicated his life to independence and he failed. He'll not see another referendum in his lifetime.
I don't really expect any real change in UK politics either as the general interest turns to indifference and apathy.
Over time the political elite will make sure the news agenda changes and any discussion and consultation will quietly fade away.
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Post by quinnster on Sept 19, 2014 20:28:08 GMT 1
As individuals, I think most Scots, want independence, it's understandable. Why would they want to be ruled from another country, when their own is fully formed on all fronts.
45/55 is close, and considering Joe Public, or should I say, Jock Public don't like change. We tend to act and vote as we always did, just look at the results in this constituency over the last how many years, and that includes local elections.
I think it was not about emotional reasons, or patriotism, it was about the dreaded reality of financial security. The big companies threatening to pull out, with the jobs, & drop in the markets in the build up during past two weeks was enough for ya bevvy drinker to go quiet in the polling booth and vote no, even though to the hoards outside it may have been Braveheart & Tartan Army street party time.
The SNP need to seduce the corporations, not just the political class, draw investment and pledges in, and then go for another referendum.
As a footnote, all the big 3 parties are in trouble up there, as they are down here via UKIP.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 20:37:22 GMT 1
If she hasn't got her passport there is a chance she might not be allowed home tomorrow - though I doubt that will happen Even if there was a Yes vote the Queen would still be head of State for Scotland. Does the Queen have a passport? I've often wondered if she needs one. Apparently She carries no Money either so where is her ID?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 19, 2014 20:43:43 GMT 1
As individuals, I think most Scots, want independence, it's understandable. Why would they want to be ruled from another country, when their own is fully formed on all fronts. Did you see the result?
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 19, 2014 22:43:59 GMT 1
Even if there was a Yes vote the Queen would still be head of State for Scotland. Does the Queen have a passport? I've often wondered if she needs one. Apparently She carries no Money either so where is her ID? You lick her behind everytime you post a letter.
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Post by staffordshrew on Sept 19, 2014 23:01:31 GMT 1
55.3% voted 'No' and 44.7% voted 'Yes'.
No spoilt papers then, or just an insignificangt number?
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Post by ssshrew on Sept 19, 2014 23:10:40 GMT 1
No my point is that at the moment he COULD be implicated in the disappearance of a 14 year old girl. We have enough suspect types already in this country. I just didn't realise that we also allowed others in. Sorry I was just being facetious. Sorry too. I felt perhaps I hadn't expressed myself well. When I re-read I realised!!!!
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Post by SeanBroseley on Sept 20, 2014 0:30:08 GMT 1
Well the publishing of a timetable in the Westminster parliament of a timetable for the transference of further powers to the Scottish parliament the day after a no vote hasn't materialised.
Announced by Gordon Brown and endorsed by the three major parties in Westminster.
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Post by shrewder on Sept 20, 2014 8:45:17 GMT 1
This referendum was no more legitimate or plausible than the one held in Crimea a few months back. Millions of Scots and the rest of the Union denied the right to vote and Salmand still doesn't get his way. Let's hope he can now crawl back under his xenophobic rock until its time for him to reappear ahead of Celebrity Big Brother 2015. I have a friend whose son is English and married to his French wife and they live in Glasgow. He is a total non conformist so they both voted yes just to rebel. The point being there is no way of ensuring any vote is fair.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 20, 2014 8:59:47 GMT 1
The size of the 'majority' who wanted to stay in the union is pretty close to the number of English living there, as it happens...
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