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Post by WATR on Sept 10, 2014 0:06:42 GMT 1
From an SP perspective I can tell you all that we continue to have open dialogue with Matt Williams on the badge issue. There is lots of work going on regarding the next steps to change the current badge. It would be wrong of me to speculate any further at this stage however both Mike and I will continue to update everyone on progress as and when we can. Roger Roger having read the Bring Back the Loggerheads statement on Facebook, and bearing in mid this is generated from a rumour surely the open dialogue is a contradiction?
Problem is we can have the dialogue we want with Matt Williams, but it's not him who has the ultimate say at STFC.
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Post by roberto02afcct on Sept 10, 2014 4:08:19 GMT 1
The MAJOR problem is only this...... It's a bloody romour!!!! How many of these things float around these message boards??? I agree with many who have actually BOTHERED to attend SP meetings & wait for an official answer rather then something heard for all I know by someone p**sed in a pub to start a conversation. If you have PROOF that it's true then fine and I apologies but what are some of you on asking for RW head now when the club have not stated there answer.
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Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Sept 10, 2014 6:50:01 GMT 1
From an SP perspective I can tell you all that we continue to have open dialogue with Matt Williams on the badge issue. There is lots of work going on regarding the next steps to change the current badge. It would be wrong of me to speculate any further at this stage however both Mike and I will continue to update everyone on progress as and when we can. Roger I think the need to keep stump and leave it with MW until a response has been given by the club. That is indeed one opinion. Another opinion would be that it is important to show STFC the strength of feeling on this issue before they potentially make a huge error of judgement, rather than meekly waiting until after the event when it is too late. We have taken the first approach. Please remember that we are not the Supporters’ Parliament and comments/statements made by us do not represent the SP in any way, shape or form. We are two totally separate groups and it is unfair to try and amalgamate the two. We respect them immensely, though. Your advice for us to ‘keep stump’ (sic) until official clarification is received has been noted. However many on this messageboard (and indeed at the football club generally) will remember that you spent approximately two years defending the clip art logo and doing everything in your power to oppose the restoration of the Loggerheads. For you to skulk in from the shadows at the eleventh hour and start dolling out advice to those involved throughout shows a great deal of nerve and is unwelcome. It is the equivalent of a conscientious objector lecturing a soldier on how to fight a battle. Jamo has a proven track record with his 'Word On The Street' threads and numerous other posters appear to have heard similar. This implies that there is/was credence behind the 'rumour' so it's unsurprising that there's been such a strong reaction. Hopefully the right decision will be made.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 7:06:29 GMT 1
Iam right though
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Post by Bring Back The Loggerheads on Sept 10, 2014 7:09:34 GMT 1
We will have to agree to disagree there, Fred.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 7:12:03 GMT 1
Fred is correct on this one
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Post by pughywasfree on Sept 10, 2014 7:23:32 GMT 1
Isn't this the place to discuss rumours?
Isn't it our right as fans to discuss issues about the club?
Most people have stated there feelings if this is true and their is nothing wrong with that, freedom of speech and all that.
Their is only one way to disprove this and that is to do the inevitable.
Get rid of that awful logo.
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Post by neilsalop on Sept 10, 2014 7:23:48 GMT 1
Fred is correct on this one Mortgagehound and Fred in agreement over the logo? Who'd have thought? If this rumour is true there will be a huge backlash, as I stated earlier I hope this is only a rumour, but many on here have had their faith in the club smashed and thrown in their faces too many times to be complacent.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Sept 10, 2014 7:27:51 GMT 1
We will have to agree to disagree there, Fred. everyone's opinion should be respected . At the end of the day everybody supports the same club . Fred has stated some good points and your response was not on IMO . Everybody's thought on b and a should be welcome.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 10, 2014 8:03:19 GMT 1
everyone's opinion should be respected . At the end of the day everybody supports the same club . Fred has stated some good points and your response was not on IMO . Everybody's thought on b and a should be welcome. Welcome yes, and open to critique, yes. As says - Fred and Mortgagehound were two of the most outspoken antagonists towards people wanting to change the badge. They put themselves firmly in that camp, and people address them as such.
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Post by bobbytheblock19er on Sept 10, 2014 8:35:15 GMT 1
Perhaps they've changed their minds or is that wrong aswell? From what I've seen on here people who aren't fussed about the badge get pelters . Which is unfair
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 8:50:50 GMT 1
Perhaps they've changed their minds or is that wrong aswell? From what I've seen on here people who aren't fussed about the badge get pelters . Which is unfair Unfair? The only thing that's unfair is having our true badge replaced by a comedy lion for the better part of a decade.
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Post by Mediolanum Shrew on Sept 10, 2014 9:09:03 GMT 1
Biggest positive of the last decade = promotion = fans ask to change badge = biggest PR own goal in history Biggest summer rebuild in the last decade = positivity = fans ask to change the badge = over to you RW? Surely, and I mean surely, this must just be a rumour? I can't contemplate it being really true. When I think of friends of mine like Mike and Glyn and others working hard to sort this out - the investment from people like Plim and Roger, if this does not happen it does not bear thinking about. No, it can't be true. It must not be true. It really must not. Excellent post. As per yesterday, let's wait and see the response we get.
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Post by Mediolanum Shrew on Sept 10, 2014 9:13:02 GMT 1
Question for Jamo.
Having "lobbed this bomb" onto the message board, how confident are you that it is true?
If your wrong, the antagonism raised could damage the chances of fans/club communication (and in particular the Supporters Parliament) becoming embedded.
Ade
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 9:19:44 GMT 1
Good point Ade.
Everyone needs to take a chill pill until the truth emerges
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 9:29:16 GMT 1
Back in May I had a very interesting informative chat with Roland Wycherly and even discussed the Loggerheads, how at first I was sceptical but how my view was changed by my Everton supporting cousin and nil satis nisi optimum important to their badge.........., As I stated before it is 50/50 and if the loggerheads is restored it will be because of the efforts from Martin James, the SP liaising with MW and bringing it to the Boards table. Roland Wycherly actually does support the SP. and TBH can slag me off all they like, but I can assure you from my limited time in the company of Roland Wycherly, that on this occasion the tone of statement prior to knowing the clubs plans regarding the badge being announced does not help in fact it does the opposite, and will get his back up if known to him. There is a good possibility with Matt Williams (plus the work he has done) bringing the current status to the Board the decision will be a yes but the need to shut the f**k up for now otherwise it will be a no!
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Post by The Shropshire Tenor on Sept 10, 2014 9:55:11 GMT 1
Accepting that we shouldn't get too worked up about a rumour, this does bring home how little say fans have over the way clubs are run. What Fred is advising is to keep quiet in case we upset the Chairman, what a perverse situation that is!
Our problem is that the club can do what it (or more accurately one individual) wants and fans are powerless. It's not as if we're going to go and support someone else is it?
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Post by jamo on Sept 10, 2014 9:57:25 GMT 1
Question for Jamo. Having "lobbed this bomb" onto the message board, how confident are you that it is true? If your wrong, the antagonism raised could damage the chances of fans/club communication (and in particular the Supporters Parliament) becoming embedded. Ade Answer for you Ade. The Word on the Street Threads have never been advertised as being true. Otherwise they would be titled The Truth on the Street. People interpret them as they like, it's a football message board. They are intended to stimulate debate, discussion and opinion - surely the remit of a football message board, or have I missed something ?
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Post by Mediolanum Shrew on Sept 10, 2014 9:58:50 GMT 1
Back in May I had a very interesting informative chat with Roland Wycherly and even discussed the Loggerheads, how at first I was sceptical but how my view was changed by my Everton supporting cousin and nil satis nisi optimum important to their badge.........., As I stated before it is 50/50 and if the loggerheads is restored it will be because of the efforts from Martin James, the SP liaising with MW and bringing it to the Boards table. Roland Wycherly actually does support the SP. and TBH can slag me off all they like, but I can assure you from my limited time in the company of Roland Wycherly, that on this occasion the tone of statement prior to knowing the clubs plans regarding the badge being announced does not help in fact it does the opposite, and will get his back up if known to him. There is a good possibility with Matt Williams (plus the work he has done) bringing the current status to the Board the decision will be a yes but the need to shut the f**k up for now otherwise it will be a no! To be fair Rob - can I suggest the same applies to yourself IMO. again, let's see what statement/ answer we get back from the club.
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Post by jamo on Sept 10, 2014 10:00:06 GMT 1
Accepting that we shouldn't get too worked up about a rumour, this does bring home how little say fans have over the way clubs are run. What Fred is advising is to keep quiet in case we upset the Chairman, what a perverse situation that is! Our problem is that the club can do what it (or more accurately one individual) wants and fans are powerless. It's not as if we're going to go and support someone else is it? Absolutely spot on. this whole campaign has come too far, cost some people so much time and effort and been attacked at very turn by the club for us to miss any opportunity to keep up the pressure to the last. This has never been a club decision, it has been one mans decision and we should not allow that to continue. no surrender
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Post by Mediolanum Shrew on Sept 10, 2014 10:00:18 GMT 1
Question for Jamo. Having "lobbed this bomb" onto the message board, how confident are you that it is true? If your wrong, the antagonism raised could damage the chances of fans/club communication (and in particular the Supporters Parliament) becoming embedded. Ade Answer for you Ade. The Word on the Street Threads have never been advertised as being true. Otherwise they would be titled The Truth on the Street. People interpret them as they like, it's a football message board. They are intended to stimulate debate, discussion and opinion - surely the remit of a football message board, or have I missed something ? Absolutely Jamo. But, just wondering that with this issue being so sensitive, and knowing it would kick off (as it has done), why you would want to do it...or am I missing something here?
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Post by jamo on Sept 10, 2014 10:08:36 GMT 1
Answer for you Ade. The Word on the Street Threads have never been advertised as being true. Otherwise they would be titled The Truth on the Street. People interpret them as they like, it's a football message board. They are intended to stimulate debate, discussion and opinion - surely the remit of a football message board, or have I missed something ? Absolutely Jamo. But, just wondering that with this issue being so sensitive, and knowing it would kick off (as it has done), why you would want to do it...or am I missing something here? Your missing something. hopefully the right decision will be made.
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Post by jimmelrosesjaw on Sept 10, 2014 10:11:51 GMT 1
Was there much fuss raised when the badge changed to a Shrew in the eighties?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 10:15:15 GMT 1
What Fred is advising is to keep quiet in case we upset the Chairman, what a perverse situation that is! Our problem is that the club can do what it (or more accurately one individual) wants and fans are powerless. It's not as if we're going to go and support someone else is it? No it is undermining the work done to get to the position that the SP has got with this. If you want something from the decision maker, criticising him globally, at a time when the vibes are positive and an answer imminent, is unwise and not going to endear them to give the decision you want!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 10:41:14 GMT 1
To be fair Rob - can I suggest the same applies to yourself IMO. again, let's see what statement/ answer we get back from the club. To be fair Ade I am partly responding to personal comments from and I have not criticised the club or the SP so fair game IMO..sorry!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 10:46:38 GMT 1
As has been stated elsewhere if the comments of a couple of posters are really in danger of upsetting the decision making then I would argue that it was hardly likely to have been a positive outcome anyway!
It is only via an outspoken movement that has harnessed the feelings of a disgruntled supporter base that the club have even considered addressing the issue.
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Post by ThrobsBlackHat on Sept 10, 2014 11:00:36 GMT 1
and TBH can slag me off all they like I merely described you as being "antagonistic" towards . Which you have been. Consistently, and deliberately. That is not slagging you off. Please don't play the victim. The whole "be quiet or you won't get what you want" is simply not true. They have only ever made progress by being noisy. Silence got us nowhere for five years, and will get us nowhere now. The club only ever respond favourably to crisis, not to conversation. If hard work, research, planning and fan desires were in any way relevant we would have a supporter's bar. There was a vote. The result was clear. The question is whether that result is going to be ignored. That is not about personal feelings, who said what to who, or who wants what. It is about the clear majority wanting the change that was offered. I do agree the tone should be civil, and the questions pertinent, but Roland has not a dram of a clue how badly it would be taken to make fans jump through hoops for months to get this poll off the ground then ignore it. Even knowing the strength of feeling about it, the overwhelming majority in the result - to then keep people hanging on for days before any official response is bizarre. This is the exciting "the people have spoken" moment to send out all the right vibes to get everyone excited but instead we get a wall of radio silence and it is into that vacuum that rumours have started. The football club have been issuing updates every 3-4 hours, every day, since the end of May, and yet on the biggest issue facing fans in a very public vote there has been total silence. That has created an environment in which rumours spread - but that environment could be quashed in a moment by a bit of communication. Look at the way Everton did it - with a sample smaller by percentage than ours. Read their timeline. www.evertonfc.com/news/archive/2013/08/22/club-crest-announcement
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Post by lenny on Sept 10, 2014 11:05:34 GMT 1
What Fred is advising is to keep quiet in case we upset the Chairman, what a perverse situation that is! Our problem is that the club can do what it (or more accurately one individual) wants and fans are powerless. It's not as if we're going to go and support someone else is it? No it is undermining the work done to get to the position that the SP has got with this. If you want something from the decision maker, criticising him globally, at a time when the vibes are positive and an answer imminent, is unwise and not going to endear them to give the decision you want! I'd say not too many people have out and out criticised RW as such - almost everyone includes the phrase "if true". There's nothing wrong with that. If it does indeed turn out to be true, we all know what the ramifications will be and I suspect RW does, too. If hypothetical criticism on an independent Internet forum about a potential decision yet to happen upsets him and leads him to sever ties with the SP, how has he lasted this long as chairman? How has he enjoyed a successful business career? His general work for the club is appreciated almost universally, but he has made mistakes just like everyone. He will get criticised just like everyone. This is his chance to avoid another mistake.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 11:11:41 GMT 1
Lets not forget that its Rolys bat and ball, the club is controlled by him full stop. Like many human beings, the man is sensitive to criticism as are many on this messageboard! It is not constructive therefore to start howling at the Chairman when none of us are in possession of the facts. Lets just wait for the statement to be released.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2014 11:14:10 GMT 1
Was there much fuss raised when the badge changed to a Shrew in the eighties? Nope.
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